New kitten, trouble adjusting?

[nicosomething]

I rescued a feral orphan a couple of months back. Her name is Mac and she is doing incredible. She weighs in her age range and eats like a champion, she is very playful and mostly sweet toward us. However some backstory here; she was orphaned at around 1 and a half weeks of age and I bottle fed her and eventually moved on to canned royal canin recovery formula. She took to it very well and is now fully weened, uses her litter box, plays a ton and is in excellent condition overall. 

My dilemma here is; she is very bitey and unsociable toward other animals so we got her another kitten pal (Lilo) who is a sweet 2 month old we adopted from the shelter. She seems in perfect health and I even took her to the vet today and was told she maybe had a small cold but other than that she was fine. My problem is Mac isn't taking up with her well at all, and I understand that this is the case in most situations and I'm not too concerned about them eventually getting along. What I am concerned about, however, is that Lilo wont touch her food or water. I've separated food and water bowls as well as litter boxes. She seems to have a hairball caught in her throat and will cough and act like she will throw up but with nothing producing. 

The vet told me her lungs and heart sound great and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with her, of course she didn't cough or gag at the vets office so I couldn't really get an opinion on that. I believe she has pooped and peed today but it's hard to tell since she spends a lot of her time sleeping or hiding. So, what I'm wondering is, is this an act of anxiety? I know that I'm supposed to separate the kittens completely but it is nearly impossible to do so in our apartment, plus I worry that this bothers Lilo more than anything because she sits at the door and meows anytime I've separated them to different rooms. Mac eats Lilo's food and drinks her water even though she has her own and I try to stop it when I see it but Lilo isn't eating or drinking anyway. 

I know it is really too soon to tell how its going to be, and the getting along will come with time and patience. I think I'm more worried about Lilo not eating or drinking anything, and showing a lot of listlessness. Sometimes she seems eager to play and almost immediately after any interaction with Mac she is coughing and swallowing like something is stuck in her throat. I don't know if this is an anxiety thing or if it is indeed just a hairball but I would love some opinions. (I'm sure I left something out in my explanation so feel free to ask any questions you may need to to get a better grasp on my sit

 

[yayi]

For a kitten with poor appetite and listlessness are things to be concerned about. Perhaps there is something wrong with her throat? Even if she did not "gag" or "cough" at the vet's it should have been checked. 

 

[margd]

How long has it been since Lilo has eaten? Cats can very quickly develop fatty liver disease if they don't eat even for a couple days. If it's been a couple of days and she's lethargic she needs to go back to the vet. Try to get her to eat by hand feeding her or using a syringe. It often helps if you warm up the food to make it smell more appetizing.

People often are able to tempt their cats to eat with tuna fish or chicken or turkey baby food without garlic or onions. Both Gerber and Beechnut offer this but it's important there be no garlic or onions so check ingredients.

I know you just went to the vet today, but you need to be ready to go back if your kitten fails to eat. At that point, hopefully they can address the gagging and choking. It could be a hairball like you think but hairballs never made my cats lethargic so I wonder if something else is going on.

 

[nicosomething]

I took her yo the vet this evening and she has pneumonia. I'm devestated, we've only had her for two days and already she has a life threatening illness.
How do I go about keeping my other kitten of the same age from getting sick. How do I separate them and still give Lilo the care she needs without making Mac upset.
I know these are silly questions but I just can't handle two pneumatic kittens and i really want Lilo to pull through. I'm just at a loss at what to do now

 

[margd]

Oh dear. I'm so sorry to hear about the pneumonia although it's great you took Lilo back to the vet already to get a diagnosis. Did the vet put her on antibiotics?

I know you said it's hard to keep them separated in your apartment but can you keep Lilo in the bathroom for now? This is going to be hard, keeping them separate and giving them both lots of love and attention, but it can be done.

I'm not an expert in kittens or health concerns so am going to call out for some of the experts here who are very knowledgeable about these issues. Hopefully you'll get some good advice. Good luck with your babies!

Paging @Handsome Kitty
Paging catwoman707
Paging @sarthur2

 

[nicosomething]

Thank you for that and yes I just put her in the bathroom after running the hot water for a few minutes, I will probably get a dehumidifier for her soon. I know it's cheesy but I'm playing classical piano music for her so hopefully she sleeps because she doesn't like being alone. The vet has given her a pretty intense antibiotic from the way he explained it. He basically told me it was a life or death situation

 

[margd]

Yes, I meant to suggest you steam up the bathroom for her. The classical music is a good idea, too. I often see people recommend harp music in particular for cats.

I'm curious. Did you take Lilo back to the same vet? Because it's hard to understand how he or she missed pneumonia earlier today but maybe it comes on very fast? Poor Lilo. I hope the antibiotic kicks in soon. Thank heavens you listened to your instincts and took her back!

 

[catwoman707]

So as I read through the posts, I thought how you have a few issues here, until I came to the pneumonia diagnosis.

First of all, can you tell me how this was diagnosed?

The following is what I think she has going on, not typical pneumonia per se-

Here is a link-

http://www.healthcommunities.com/feline-chlamydiosis/overview.shtml

Overview of Feline Chlamydiosis

Feline chlamydiosis (also known as feline pneumonitis) is a relatively mild, chronic upper respiratory disease  caused  by the bacterium Chlamydia psittaci. The main symptom  is conjunctivitis, an abnormal eye discharge due to inflammation of the conjunctiva, the membrane lining the inside of the eyelid. The infection can also cause nasal discharge, sneezing, and pneumonia. Left untreated, the infection tends to become chronic, lasting weeks or months.

Chlamydiosis is part of the feline upper respiratory infection (URI) complex, a group of viral and bacterial infections (e.g., feline rhinotracheitis, feline calicivirus) that affects the nose and eyes and manifests similar symptoms. Chlamydiosis accounts for about 10 to 15 percent of all feline URI cases and often occurs with another URI.

http://

Incidence and Prevalence of Feline Chlamydiosis

Chlamydiosis occurs worldwide and affects about 5 to 10 percent of the cat population. It is especially common in kittens  (2 to 6 months old), in multicat households, and in pet adoption shelters. Outbreaks tend to occur in overcrowded, poorly ventilated, and unsanitary settings; and where cats are poorly fed or stressed, either physically (e.g., extreme temperatures) or psychologically (introduction of a new cat).

- See more at: http://www.healthcommunities.com/feline-chlamydiosis/overview.shtml#sthash.AayLa5TW.dpuf

Symptoms of Feline Chlamydiosis

Chlamydiosis is symptomatic only in the respiratory tract and eyes. The infection may not cause any symptoms, unless another URI is present. When symptoms do appear, the most common include the following:

Anorexia  (loss of appetite; may occur as the disease progresses)

• Coughing
• Difficulty breathing
• Fever  (may occur as the disease progresses)
• Pneumonia  (in young kittens 2 to 4 weeks old, which could be fatal)
• Runny nose (rhinitis)
• Sneezing
• Watery eyes due to conjunctivitis  (either one or both eyes)

- See more at: http://www.healthcommunities.com/feline-chlamydiosis/overview.shtml#sthash.AayLa5TW.dpuf

I do believe this is contagious to your Mac, and your vet really needs to deal with this regarding your Mac contracting it.

The standard vaccines for kittens does not have chlamydia in it, it is the 2 main uri's and panleukopenia, so I don't have the answer for Mac, but he should be able to tell you.

He has already been exposed to her virus now, so be sure to tell the vet this.

Regarding rough play, kittens learn how to play and interact with other kittens and cats from 4 weeks-8/9 weeks for the most part.

When a kitten doesn't have sibs to learn with they lack the boundaries and will play rough. It would have been helpful if you got a 3 month old kitten rather than an 8 week old because by 3 months, she/he would have been able to show Mac a thing or two about getting pounced on from too rough of play.

Also with her not feeling well, this puts another issue thrown in to the mix.

What is the med the vet has her on now? Did he give her an injection as well?

 

[nicosomething]

The first time I took her to the vet she didn't really do badly. The cough wasn't present and she was breathing okay just swallowing a lot so the vet didn't think anything of it. She gave her a mild antibiotic in case of uri and told me to call her if it got worse. It did get worse the next day (yesterday) and they had to refer me to an emergency vet who actually works with the shelter we got her from. He did x rays and blood work and he sent the x rays to a radiologist. I just got thay report back this morning. The bloodwork was shown to me and it was normal. She hasn't ran a fever both times she has been to the vet. However he found a bit of fluid in her lungs and said it wasnt as bad as he was expecting but it still isn't a good sign obviously. She doesn't open mouth breath all the time now but it is still labored. He gave her an injection, yes. And gave me oral drops to give her every morning. He called this morning and said he's pretty sure it was viral pneumonia so the antibiotics are merely to prevent any bacterial infections. It's called veraflox. I had mac and lilo together for almost two days and have now separated them. My boyfriend slept with mac on the couch last night and I slept with lilo so she had a heartbeat to listen to and so I could focus on her. I'm keeping her in the bathroom and i let mac have free run of the house. She hasnt shown any sign of infection but I'm gonna keep watching her. Is there anything else I can do to make this easier? I'm feeding her a critical care food that can be given with a syringe and i only give her drops at a time on the end of her tongue so she can swallow it and not asphyxiate. I check her hydration regularly. Also, should I alert the shelter since that must be where she got it from?

 

[nicosomething]

He also isnt ruling out FIP yet but from what I have read she hasn't shown any signs of it. I'm terrified she isn't going to make it but I'm trying my best to make her comfortable and to stay positive. I'm also really afraid mac will get infected too and I really cannot handle that since I raised her practically since she was born. Should I just do daily vet check ups? Or at least try and get oxygen treatments or something? I will do anything I can for this baby but I just need a direction to go in because I've never dealt with this kind of illness before

 

[nicosomething]

And that does make sense about the older kitten and play. I wish I would have thought of that, but my boyfriend fell in love with lilo and now I have too, she is a sweetheart and the sad thing is that mac was actually starting to get along with lilo before I had to separate them. They really want to be with each other now. Maybe it's a comforting thing, which is sweet

 

[margd]

What you're going through is so hard. My heart really goes out to you. I have no experience with pneumonia in cats but it does sound like you are doing everything right with all the vet care. You mentioned oxygen - it's certainly worth calling the vet about that. And you asked about letting the shelter know - yes, I would. This is something they need to be aware of.

Please keep posting about Lilo and Mac and let us know what is going on. My fingers are crossed that little Lilo turns the corner soon and starts to feel better. And of course, I hope Mac stays healthy.

 

[nicosomething]

Thank you, I love this site because of all of the amazing support you guys give. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't have raised mac to be a healthy little kitten. I just need some positive vibes and hopefully all will be okay

 

[catwoman707]

The first time I took her to the vet she didn't really do badly. The cough wasn't present and she was breathing okay just swallowing a lot so the vet didn't think anything of it. She gave her a mild antibiotic in case of uri and told me to call her if it got worse. It did get worse the next day (yesterday) and they had to refer me to an emergency vet who actually works with the shelter we got her from. He did x rays and blood work and he sent the x rays to a radiologist. I just got thay report back this morning. The bloodwork was shown to me and it was normal. She hasn't ran a fever both times she has been to the vet. However he found a bit of fluid in her lungs and said it wasnt as bad as he was expecting but it still isn't a good sign obviously. She doesn't open mouth breath all the time now but it is still labored. He gave her an injection, yes. And gave me oral drops to give her every morning. He called this morning and said he's pretty sure it was viral pneumonia so the antibiotics are merely to prevent any bacterial infections. It's called veraflox. I had mac and lilo together for almost two days and have now separated them. My boyfriend slept with mac on the couch last night and I slept with lilo so she had a heartbeat to listen to and so I could focus on her. I'm keeping her in the bathroom and i let mac have free run of the house. She hasnt shown any sign of infection but I'm gonna keep watching her. Is there anything else I can do to make this easier? I'm feeding her a critical care food that can be given with a syringe and i only give her drops at a time on the end of her tongue so she can swallow it and not asphyxiate. I check her hydration regularly. Also, should I alert the shelter since that must be where she got it from?

My post explaining about chlamydiosis is a viral illness, so this doesn't surprise me, and yes I would let the shelter know about her diagnosis.

Her tests coming back normal and no fever tells me no pneumonia, but fluid in her lungs which causes difficulty breathing does say a touch of pneumonia, or fip in it's earlier stage.

Just stay on top of feeding and her antibiotics. It's all you can really do, her prognosis is a bit guarded in my opinion but my instincts tell me she should recover fine if it is not fip.

FIP is tricky and silent, but she is a bit young for it to be fip, usually seen in 4 months and older kittens. So that's a hopeful thought.

 

[nicosomething]

I needed that, because the vet was pretty cynical and is staying pretty guarded about it. He said it's a life or death situation. Reading on thay link describes her to a tee. The er vet sent all the results to my regular vet so i think I will take her tomorrow and get her opinion on it. I know globular levels (I think that's what it is) usually indicate FIP but hers were still in the normal range. All of her blood was in normal range which is keeping me positive.just now I fed her about 15cc of food and she didn't reject it as much as she did yesterday and even earlier today. I am truly a mess though, I am really just trying to stay positive

 

[catwoman707]

The antibiotics are kicking in, or should be about now, so that's a good sign.

You have to remain positive, it's human nature to keep hopeful, with her blood tests showing normal and lack of fever, this is also good.

If she were to have pneumonia with a fever and lethargy, and were a bit younger, things would be looking pretty grave, honestly.

Which is why I said a touch or a bit of pneumonia, the antibiotics are to kill and ward off any bacteria, and the fluid dissipates. Keeping her well fed and hydrated are the important supportive care things that you can do for her during her recovery. 

FIP, why I said she is a bit young for it to be this, is because it takes their bodies time to develop in to fip once infected, and when kittens are young they have the mother's antibodies present to keep them from getting the virus, so as the antibodies begin to wear down, is when they are beginning to be capable of getting the viruses.

In other words, for her to have early signs of fip now at 8 weeks, means she would have had to contract it between newborn and 2 weeks old approx, which would be highly unusual/rare because of the moms protective antibodies.

I hope that makes sense how I am explaining it.

FIP is of course the worst diagnosis because it is fatal, no cure what-so-ever. 

It's all technical and I've explained it as simple as possible so it hopefully makes sense. 

There are a couple of additional things you can do for her, not sure if the vet has mentioned these at all.

One is, steam up the bathroom well and have her in there for 15 minutes each time.  Twice per day.

The other thing is, I would put her up on my shoulder as if you were going to burp a baby, and with a cupped hand, pat on her back repeatedly, like burping a baby but good and firm, not hard, firm enough to bounce her body a bit though. 

This helps break up the lower lungs which is where the pneumonia is. 

It also promotes her to cough, which is a very good thing.

The steam will help keep the fluid in lungs moist, so it can be expelled.

Limit her activity, I would not have the 2 kittens together, although I do think it's good that they can play footsies under the door if desired

Expect it to take weeks for her to be 100% better. Soon she will eat herself again though, but pneumonia is a slower process of healing.

 

[nicosomething]

Thank you for the advice. I was actually doing the shower and the burping thing since yesterday, i wasn't sure if it would help anything it was just an easier way to help her cough. I'm glad that I've been at least doing thay right. I have her in a box with a bunch of blankets and I keep her in the bathroom when mac is out and running around. All of that about FIP does make sense and it scares me because no signs are shown sometimes. I just hope that I have caught this early enough to get her to pull through. The food is a pain to give but water is so much worse, I'm always afraid that she sucks it in instead of drinking it and it's harder to tell than the food because she kinda chews the food and smacks her lips as she swallows instead of spitting it out like she does with water. I know that when she spits it out its a sign she inhaled some of it so I'm reserved with the water but I have to keep her hydrated and it's tough. Do vets typically give out sub q shots for me to give at home? I would much rather do that then risk her getting worse.

 

[catwoman707]

What you should be doing is syringing the food mixed with the water so you can better monitor the amt she gets.

She will get just as hydrated this way as straight water, and will take it alot better too.

 

[nicosomething]

Update on Lilo: she is drinking water by herself!!! And she is purring!! I had to go to work for 4 hours so she was alone in a humid bathroom and we just got home to see her. She immediately jumped on my shoulder when I sat down and started purring. I know I shouldn't be too excited just yet but what an incredible turn around!

 

[margd]

Great news! I hope she continues to improve. Come on Lilo, you can do it!