New kitten likes to be around my resident cat but afraid of me?

[ladybutter]

Hi everyone!

I'm really desperate for an opinion on my cat's behaviour. I have a 1.5 year old ragdoll and she's an adorable one. Really friendly and rarely does she get mad at anything or anybody. Even at 1 yr old, she's still playful as ever--but we feel sorry for her because she's alone in the condo when my husband and I are at work during the day. So we decided we want to get her a companion.

We got a 3 mos. old russian blue 3 days ago, and it makes me think that the breeder didn't even bother socializing it much because he was so spooked when we brought him home and obviously very scared of humans. We secluded the new kitten in our bathroom with everything he needs and every once in awhile we sit down and try to feed her and slowly try to get closer to him. He's so spooked that whenever we're inside he's going to position himself far away from where we're seating. 

After 2 days when he's not so scared of us anymore we started introducing him to our ragdoll. At first we let them smell each other through a pet carrier alternatively. I thought we'll be doing the routine for a whole week but then the new kitten seemed like it calmed down because of our cat. When we separate them again, the kitten will meow endlessly and wants to come out of the bathroom just to be around my cat. 

So after while, we slowly let them be around each other. The kitten seemed more confident and not so scared anymore to go out of the bathroom. At first there was some hissing and growling so we'll separate them again to calm down. In just a day, they adapted to each other so much that by night, they were already chasing around the condo! My ragdoll is rough player so she'll paw and swat the kitty but the kitty runs away. I'm not entirely sure if she's chasing him away or she's just playing with him. I looked for signs if she's angry (flat ears, upward tail, hissing, etc.) but there was nothing. When my cat chases the kitty down, the kitty will sometimes roll and lie on the floor. I read somewhere that if a kitty lies down, it's showing it's vulnerable. So I guess it's not that mad? But sometimes the kitty's tail will also go upward but will still continue to approach my cat. When we try to separate them again, the kitty hates it but I'm worried that if I let the kitty out all the time so early with the introduction my cat will eventually get stressed.

The kitty also sometimes rubs himself to my cat while my cat swats him. I also caught my cat grooming my kitty but seems like my kitty just runs away from it.

I'm confused! I don't know what to make out of their behavior! It's only been 3 days, right now I'm at work and I left the kitty alone in the bathroom separated from my cat.

Any opinions? Thanks in advance!!!

 

[catwoman707]

Hi there and welcome to TCS!!

I have lots to say

First of all, the behavior the new kitten is showing around you is a lack of socialization to people. He may have been born outside and brought in, or found young, or found and tamed. But taming and socializing kittens requires more than one person doing it. The kitten will seem totally tame to that one person but then very shy and scared with other people.

When I tame, I make sure the kittens are handled by as many different people as possible. Myself, husband, step daughter, my daughter, my mom, whoever comes over that is willing to hold because that is the proper way to get taming done so that it is not only to one person.

But shy or semi feral is only to people, it is not to cats.

For one the kitten sees your cat as a friendly sight. He may have been with siblings/mom until you got him. So he is scared, alone/lonely, misses his sibs and mom, former home, etc.

Your cats behavior is the norm, she is displaying who the boss cat is and teaching him. Females are usually always the dominant in the home anyway, and males know this and submit to it naturally.

His rolling onto his back is showing her he is no threat, a submissive position.

This will continue, and even escalate a bit for a few weeks actually. But in the end they will do just fine and likely be great pals.

As for you, give him time, he will need lots of time to learn to trust you and feel he is safe and secure. Be sure to allow it to happen in HIS time, not yours. He will surely come around soon enough.

Good luck!

 

[tulosai]

Some good advice from @catwoman707  but I have a slightly different take 

 I think it is really too soon to know if the kitten is socialized to people or not.  He's had a lot of changes all at once, and it is not unusual that even a very social kitten would be very very scared and confused for the first few days.  One of my resident cats (who is the biggest cuddlebug ever and I swear seriously would follow pretty much anyone right out my door if I let him) hid for almost 24 hours when I first got him home.  I'd caution against assuming the cat isn't friendly toward people- he may very well just be adjusting, and I don't think you will know for sure  for a few weeks. I also don't see any signs that he is really adverse to humans- you  don't mention him hissing at you, swiping at you, trying to bite you or anything like that- all of which a semi feral might well do.

As for the introductions, I understand you were trying to go at kitty's pace but I think this may have been a bit rushed all the same? They seem to be adjusting well though so I'm not sure there is a need to start over. My one caution is that I would not let them be unsupervised together for at least a few weeks. I am guessing the 1.5 year old is considerably bigger than the 3 month old, and she could well hurt him, intentionally or not, especially while they are sorting all of this out.

 

[catwoman707]

Tulosai, I stand by my advice/opinions about him. Even the op mentions that he didn't seem to get socialization by the original person.

I don't mean he is feral, but I definitely believe that after 3 days and he is still very shy and scared, he can't be touched or handled, he wasn't properly socialized at a very young age. No way.

My social kittens do fine, they go to their new adoptive homes and I always ask for an update in the first day or 2, and they don't hide like that at all!

However, I have also seen a not so well socialized kitten do just what hers is doing.

Eventually they come around to some extent, hopefully completely, but it will surely take a good deal of time and patience.

Unfortunately some get returned. Sad for them when this happens, that's why I always make sure they understand that this particular kitten WILL be a shy one and need some patience. Occasionally one of my adoptions volunteers don't elaborate enough when adopting a shy kitten out, so occasionally, there will be a return.

Just takes time and patience.

 

[ladybutter]

 
I also don't see any signs that he is really adverse to humans- you  don't mention him hissing at you, swiping at you, trying to bite you or anything like that- all of which a semi feral might well do.

As for the introductions, I understand you were trying to go at kitty's pace but I think this may have been a bit rushed all the same? They seem to be adjusting well though so I'm not sure there is a need to start over. My one caution is that I would not let them be unsupervised together for at least a few weeks. I am guessing the 1.5 year old is considerably bigger than the 3 month old, and she could well hurt him, intentionally or not, especially while they are sorting all of this out.

Thanks so much for the reply! Anyway, actually, I just forgot to mention it, but for the kitty's first night, whenever we try to slowly approach him using a finger to touch her nose, we'll hear him growl and sometimes (not often) hiss at us. But after 1 day and a half, he's not like that anymore, he'll just turn away from us when he sees us approaching him but he's okay if we're just very near and letting him be.

For the introductions, my husband and I are still worried on how to proceed with it. Obviously, it seemed like we skipped the whole smell exchange steps. Our plan is when we're around, we'll let them spend an hour or so together then separate them again. Will that be okay? Or is it too early for them to spend time together?

 
Your cats behavior is the norm, she is displaying who the boss cat is and teaching him. Females are usually always the dominant in the home anyway, and males know this and submit to it naturally.

His rolling onto his back is showing her he is no threat, a submissive position.

This will continue, and even escalate a bit for a few weeks actually. But in the end they will do just fine and likely be great pals.

Phew. My husband and I were racking our brains out with all the swatting-but-doesn't-look-angry thing that my cat was doing to my kitty. I owned cats for more than 10 years now, but I owned them separately. The first one was when I was still living with my parents and second one is the one I have now. I have no experience with cat behaviour with each other so these are all very new to me. Thanks so much!

 

[ladybutter]

 
Even the op mentions that he didn't seem to get socialization by the original person.

I don't mean he is feral, but I definitely believe that after 3 days and he is still very shy and scared, he can't be touched or handled, he wasn't properly socialized at a very young age. No way.

I came to this realization because before we actually adopted him, we went to the owner's house to take a look. We didn't approach him at all because of course, we're strangers to him. But then, when the owner tries to get closer to the cats, they also run away. That time I just thought that maybe it was just because there are visitors around so they're scared. But when I'm finally getting him, the owner apologized for being late and said that she had a hard time getting the kitty in to his carrier because he keeps running away. I don't know the whole story, just a part of me feels that the original owners didn't socialized him very well.

 

[catwoman707]

Yeah he's just lacking socialization. The growling confirms this for me, but in time he will come around.

An 8 week old kitten's mental state of socialization is pretty much set, but this is for all people in general. This doesn't mean he will be this way always with you and your husband, but it will def. take a while.

The 2 have already spent time together, so just proceed with allowing supervised time together.

Regardless, the way your older cat is going to be treating the new cat can't be changed, it is how she is establishing to the new kid on the block who is who in your home.

I would NOT allow them to be unsupervised however. As I said before, it takes between 2 1/2/3 weeks to sometimes up to 5 weeks depending on how submissive she feels he is with her.

Even when she is done abusing him on occasions you will see her suddenly act not-so-nice to him, as reminders.

Over years though, this will usually fade pretty much completely.

In these next few weeks or more she will be rough with him, swat, pounce, whatever she wants to do to make her statement to him crystal clear.

Just watch that she doesn't hurt him, poor guy

But it's nature, so there's no easy way around this process.

 

[katluver4life]

There are some things you can do to help him get past his fear of you and help you all bond. During the times he is separated, I am assuming he is in a room closed off, spend time sitting or laying on the floor just talking to him. This is how he will get accustomed to your voice. Even if just reading out loud.

Keep your body small and non threatening. Sometimes your just being a big thing coming at him is frightening. You could also play soft music in his room. Give him boxes he can hide in lined with something that has your scent on it, like a worn shirt. Spend time playing with him a lot. Wand toys work well. These allow him to play with you, yet still keep his distance and can be used to slowly work him closer and closer to you. I used this to socialize one of my foster kittens who just wouldn't let anyone handle him. I sat on the floor, used the wand toy and eventually got him playing on my lap.

Food is a great motivator. When he eats, pet him on the top of his head. He'll learn petting equals good feelings. Use treats. Above all, let him come to you and make all the first moves. He is young yet and will come around. Just give him lots of love and be patient.

 

[lamiatron]

 
Hi everyone!

I'm really desperate for an opinion on my cat's behaviour. I have a 1.5 year old ragdoll and she's an adorable one. Really friendly and rarely does she get mad at anything or anybody. Even at 1 yr old, she's still playful as ever--but we feel sorry for her because she's alone in the condo when my husband and I are at work during the day. So we decided we want to get her a companion.

We got a 3 mos. old russian blue 3 days ago, and it makes me think that the breeder didn't even bother socializing it much because he was so spooked when we brought him home and obviously very scared of humans. We secluded the new kitten in our bathroom with everything he needs and every once in awhile we sit down and try to feed her and slowly try to get closer to him. He's so spooked that whenever we're inside he's going to position himself far away from where we're seating. 

After 2 days when he's not so scared of us anymore we started introducing him to our ragdoll. At first we let them smell each other through a pet carrier alternatively. I thought we'll be doing the routine for a whole week but then the new kitten seemed like it calmed down because of our cat. When we separate them again, the kitten will meow endlessly and wants to come out of the bathroom just to be around my cat. 

So after while, we slowly let them be around each other. The kitten seemed more confident and not so scared anymore to go out of the bathroom. At first there was some hissing and growling so we'll separate them again to calm down. In just a day, they adapted to each other so much that by night, they were already chasing around the condo! My ragdoll is rough player so she'll paw and swat the kitty but the kitty runs away. I'm not entirely sure if she's chasing him away or she's just playing with him. I looked for signs if she's angry (flat ears, upward tail, hissing, etc.) but there was nothing. When my cat chases the kitty down, the kitty will sometimes roll and lie on the floor. I read somewhere that if a kitty lies down, it's showing it's vulnerable. So I guess it's not that mad? But sometimes the kitty's tail will also go upward but will still continue to approach my cat. When we try to separate them again, the kitty hates it but I'm worried that if I let the kitty out all the time so early with the introduction my cat will eventually get stressed.

The kitty also sometimes rubs himself to my cat while my cat swats him. I also caught my cat grooming my kitty but seems like my kitty just runs away from it.

I'm confused! I don't know what to make out of their behavior! It's only been 3 days, right now I'm at work and I left the kitty alone in the bathroom separated from my cat.

Any opinions? Thanks in advance!!!

awww sounds just like my Charlie and Jet! (pictured in my avatar)

Charlie: 4mo. old, male, fixed. Was a surrender at the shelter (been with us over a month)

Jet: 2mo. old, female, fixed. was a stray kitty brought to the shelter (been with us a little less than 3 weeks)

This is normal please dont stress and worry! I had the same experience with Jet and Charlie. When charlie met Jet he was super excited to play with her but all she did was hiss and swat at him. but when we separated them, they looked for each other. Literally overnight they became best of friends. Eating, playing, sleeping together. However, when me or my bf approach Jet, she backs away. Probably because she was a stray at such an early point in her life (poor baby). Its okay. She's not comfortable around humans all that much yet. but she's very comfortable with Charlie. Which is a great thing. She's always learning from him, by watching him and being around him (no scratching on furniture, how to use the litter box, using the scratching post and other designated scratch locations).

I think the same thing is happening with your kitties. Your new kitty doesn't yet feel safe around you. And that's okay. Just give him time. Think of it this way, When you got your first kitty, she had all the time and space in the world to get used to her surroundings, and for you guys to be patient with her an showering her with care and attention. Your new kitty is not getting the same, because he's the 2nd cat. He's usually confined to one room for his space, and he just wants to be with your older cat because he feels comfortable with her.

My Jet still backs away from us, when we enter a room she's in...but its lessened a lot over time. And it might take her longer still, but she's learning from Charlie that we're not bad. Also I agree with @Katluver4life  , pet him while he eats. He'll know that you're good, and along with bringing food you also bring him affection and love. Sounds like the people who bred him or previous owners might have restrained from any physical or emotion attachment with the kitty. Also as @Katluver4life  says, let him come to you. When he does be welcoming. Jet usually decides 2AM every day is a good time to sit on my chest, purr and wake me up for pets, and that's alright with me.

You're a great kitty parent =) Just give your little guy some time and a lot of love. 

 

[catwoman707]

I had posted this 'taming through food' technique for another member here a while back, so I copied and pasting it for you, in case you want the process to get moving

It's your option of course, as he will eventually come around on his own, but it may be a very slow process. This will surely help speed it up by basically forcing him to learn faster that you are not a threat, but the food giving, caring person that you are. Here is the info about taming-

"Actually, withholding food is an excellent, effective way to 'reach' a cat. Through it's hunger. A cat will never starve itself to sickness or death no matter how afraid they are.

Unless you are fine with waiting it out, which can be a very long time. This kitten is mentally feral, and likely will never be fully tame, it may come around to you, actually quite likely, but to a degree, and to what degree only time will tell and also depending on how much you workl with her, as well as if she had former exposure to people, which she had in your dad.

If you hold back the food, it forces them to seek out food from you, whether they want to or not.

An example that might help explain is, when I get feral kittens the first thing I do is seperate them.. Otherwise I could work with a kitten and make progress, only to put them back in with sibs and they are reminded that they are supposed to fear me, making time spent pointless.

I allow them all the food they want to get full since I don't know how long it's been.

Then I pull the food, say in the morning.

That night I start, I offer food from my hand. They usually look at me like hell no, not a chance. But I offered.

The next morning they are a bit more eager, and will come towards me reluctantly, even snatch a piece of food from my hand and jet back, but never leave food for them.

By that night, guaranteed they will come for food, and as soon as they eat from my hand, my other hand pets them. They hate it but are too hungry to not allow it. Shaking scared, meowing some, all that, but they are forced to accept it, and very soon realize my pets don't hurt. They begin associating pets with food, a positive thing.

Forcing them is not painful, you are not starving her, but forcing her to take the step of accepting you and your touch.

Oh also, always leave fresh water, you are only pulling the food.

I have successfully tamed countless kitties, most are young, some not so young, but the older they are, the more time and work it takes, and many of the older I end up tnr'ing as they just don't tame down. Some become more of a semi-feral than feral and I can place those in outdoor homes as mousers, etc.

Mentally by 8 weeks and up, 'feral' has set itself in stone basically, okay at least in clay, this is why it is so difficult to tame after, and the further from 8 weeks they are, the harder or near impossible it becomes.

Although, I tame to the point of total tameness to people rather than to only me, to make them adoptable. Taming is not as difficult if it is to one person or one family in the home.

Good chance at Kitty's age she will always have a shyness about her, but that's okay.

It will take some time for her to forget about where she came from, her momma, her sibs. The first 10 days are spent missing and wanting their sibs and mom. Resisting the new place, uninterested in the smells, sounds etc of it. Then about 2 weeks, this stops, they become more aware of where they are, smells, sounds, etc. By 4 weeks they are accepting that this is their home totally forgetting their former life. This is the mental part of a cat acclimation.

So her resistance now is normal.

Once you get the food withholding/hand feeding/petting down, you can leave the food with her, and if/when she attempts any reverting to your pets, pull it again as a reminder. In time she will understand you are a good thing, not a threat or danger. Petting feels kinda good even! I've had feral adults I have done this with, and remember how cute but sad it is when they first have to allow my pets, but it very soon turns into their welcoming my pets, and I even get purrs! Love that.

It's a bonding thing, a trust thing, just a way of speeding up the process is all".

 

[tulosai]

 
Thanks so much for the reply! Anyway, actually, I just forgot to mention it, but for the kitty's first night, whenever we try to slowly approach him using a finger to touch her nose, we'll hear him growl and sometimes (not often) hiss at us. But after 1 day and a half, he's not like that anymore, he'll just turn away from us when he sees us approaching him but he's okay if we're just very near and letting him be.

Hi again.  Now that you've described in more detail I actually agree with @catwoman707 - he does not sound well socialized.  However, I wanted to add some tips on how to approach him.  Lots of cats don't like to be approached head on (or actually, to have their noses touched I don't think- not positive, I rarely see people touch their cats noses but my residents and fosters don't tend to like it when I step in to do it- usually when I am trying to get some kind of mess off

).  Instead try approaching from the side, with your hand flat and somewhat below head level.  Also make sure you aren't making direct eye contact with kitty- lots of cats don't like that either.  If you do approach from the front, try making a fist- lots of cats will respond positively to this and either sniff you or give you a little head bump.

I hope maybe this is helpful. Congrats again on your new addition. 

 

 

[catwoman707]

Great advice Tulosai.

I meant to add to my last post here about a frightened kitten/cat for that matter, and how towering over them is extremely intimidating.

I forget sometimes that when I am taming kittens they are in a large cage that is up on a table.

If I were working with one in a room I would be sure to get down on the floor, even laying down to their level if possible.

Talking constantly in a very non threatening voice, soft singing, reading outloud, etc. to accustom them to your voice.

Yes, an open hand reaching for them is threatening, as well as staring directly into their eyes. This is predatorial to them instinctively.

 

[ladybutter]

Hi everyone! 

Thanks so much for all the advice! It's been five days since we got Neptune (our new kitten) and I think things are progressing in a good way with us but not so well with Saturn (my resident cat).

Neptune is livelier now and is very much active! I think he plays all the time and just barely sleep! He is still confined in the bathroom while Saturn still reigns supreme in the condo. Neptune is now comfortable to sleep near us and not hide when we're inside the bathroom spending time with him. He still won't approach us to be petted but he allows us to try. Sometimes he will allow it but sometimes he still turns away. There are also times that he won't allow us to touch him but he'll lick our fingers instead. What does that mean? XD He's quite confident to roam outside the bathroom when we let him for a short period of time but Saturn keeps on chasing him around!

Saturn, apparently, @catwoman707   is right. Her, trying to assert her dominance is escalating. She's a rough player by heart, even when she's playing by herself with a stuff animal before, she'll try to wrestle it so hard then lick it again afterwards. Now, she's slowly doing that to Neptune! She's chasing him around, tackle him and bites him! Sometimes it's all good, but I think sometimes she's hurting him really bad then we try to separate them again. But I really find it weird because even if she does that, she then runs up to his butt and tries to groom him. Is that normal? Should I stop letting them spend time together? 

 

[catwoman707]

Not at all, just continue to supervise their time together.

Just as I fully expected from Saturn

Youre doing great!