Need some help transitioning to Raw Feeding please

[vball91]

So I have 2 questions today:

1. Mid-morning she started begging for food, and since I'm trying to get her on a timed schedule, I gave her a tiny treat instead to tide her over. I tried a new treat (treats are new in general for us), the Ziwipeak Venison and Fish treats. About 30 minutes after she had that, she vomited up the 1 tiny piece plus some bile and a little bit of hair (not enough to call it a hair ball). I'm not sure what caused the vomiting, but I'm hesitant to try the treat again. What would you do? Try the treat again at some later point or not? I was surprised there was nothing else in her stomach because she did eat a tbsp of Wysong Epigen 90 overnight even though she didn't eat much of her canned breakfast (new flavor she doesn't seem fond of and I forgot to add a topper). After the vomiting, I did feed her .5 oz of raw diced Cornish hen mixed with 1/3 egg yolk and COTW. I mixed the COTW in with everything this time so she can't just lick it off. She did eat all of that with apparent enjoyment and kept it down with no issues. She groomed and is napping in the sun now, so she doesn't seem to be in distress from the vomiting.

2. Yesterday, I tried to feed Aria the Stella and Chewy's freeze-dried turkey meal. I found a local pet store that has the small packages to try. I got turkey, chicken and duck thinking it would be a good thing to put in rotation especially if I don't have raw on hand or if I'm short on time. I followed the directions and rehydrated it, but she would have nothing to do with it. I tried different toppers and still nothing. She would lick it a little but that's it. Any tips on getting her to try it? Or should I just give up on that flavor? The stray cats in my neighborhood have been getting a lot of Aria's rejects lately.

 

[ldg]

My cats hate turkey, unless it's actual turkey breast or thigh. Freeze dried While Life turkey is also edible, according to the cats. But any frozen raw, doesn't matter what brand it was - ground turkey from Hare Today, Stella & Chewy's turkey, Nature's Menu frozen raw turkey... they hate it. :dk: But they love the S&C freeze dried chicken (and yet hate any other frozen raw chicken except chunks of breast, thigh, or wings. But NV, Nature's Menu, and again, even the Hare Today just ground up chicken - hate it!)

As to throwing up the treat... given there was nothing else in her stomach, could it be that since she didn't eat much breakfast, and as she was hungry, she just had too much bile in her tummy? Otherwise, I'd just skip those treats. Has she had venison before? On an empty tummy, I'm willing to bet something like that would make Shel (who can't handle red meat well) throw up. :dk:

 

[vball91]

Come to think of it, she has not had venison before. I really need to be better about introducing new proteins.

On the plus side, she did have 1.5 oz of raw yesterday with no issues and is on track for the same today. I'm pretty happy that she's taking to raw well. Even though she's a picky eater, she does seem to prefer the raw over her healthier canned options.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Have you fed Aria any of the other S & C small packets of rehydrated food?  I ask this because mine LOVE S & C DEHYDRATED cubes, but HATE the rehydrated powder, which is what is in the smaller packets.  Doesn't even matter if they are the same flavor as the cubes they eat dehydrated

    But what is really weird is that if I crumble up a cube and use it as a topper, they will eat it...'course, then it's still in the "dry" state.  Oh, and I called S & C's Customer Service and asked them about serving it up dehydrated, and they said as long as your don't do that for every meal, it should be fine, especially if you are feeding raw and/or canned for the rest of their food to make sure they get plenty of water in their diet (or if they drink plenty on their own...Callie immediately goes to the fountain for a drink after eating S & C's, good girl that she is

)

 

[vball91]

Hmmm, that is weird. I would think it would taste the same. I haven't tried any other S & C's products. I only got the small bags (Turkey, Duck and Chicken) to see if she'll like them before buying any of the bigger bags. I'll have to see if she has the same reaction to the others. It was weird that she wouldn't even try it. Now that I know about and have toppers on hand, I can get her to try anything, but she wanted nothing to do with it, even after two different toppers. Cats ARE weird.

 

[otto]

Have you fed Aria any of the other S & C small packets of rehydrated food?  I ask this because mine LOVE S & C DEHYDRATED cubes, but HATE the rehydrated powder, which is what is in the smaller packets.  Doesn't even matter if they are the same flavor as the cubes they eat dehydrated     But what is really weird is that if I crumble up a cube and use it as a topper, they will eat it...'course, then it's still in the "dry" state.  Oh, and I called S & C's Customer Service and asked them about serving it up dehydrated, and they said as long as your don't do that for every meal, it should be fine, especially if you are feeding raw and/or canned for the rest of their food to make sure they get plenty of water in their diet (or if they drink plenty on their own...Callie immediately goes to the fountain for a drink after eating S & C's, good girl that she is )

Same with Queen Eva. She won't eat the S&C "crumbs". Once it's re-hydrated you wouldn't think there would be any difference, but SHE says there is. Fortunately Jennie doesn't mind re-hydrated crumbs.

The two Stella & Chewy's products I use in the rotation are the chicken and the duck/goose.

Sounds like Aria is on the right track. Congratulations!

 

[vball91]

Same with Queen Eva. She won't eat the S&C "crumbs". Once it's re-hydrated you wouldn't think there would be any difference, but SHE says there is. Fortunately Jennie doesn't mind re-hydrated crumbs.

The two Stella & Chewy's products I use in the rotation are the chicken and the duck/goose.

Sounds like Aria is on the right track. Congratulations!

It's good you have Jennie who is not picky. Cats!

Yesterday was a weird day. Both H and I had to be out of the house from 5am-6pm. Since we moved not too long ago, I didn't have anyone I could ask/trust to feed Aria raw, so I just decided to leave her some kibble (Wysong Epigen 90) for the day after feeding her raw right before I left.

When I got home, to my surprise, she hadn't eaten much of the kibble and gobbled up the gravified canned. I would have fed her raw but since I didn't know when she had last eaten some kibble, I was afraid to do that since I've read you shouldn't feed raw too soon after kibble due to the different digestion times. I've read you shouldn't feed raw after kibble anywhere from 2-12 hours after kibble. I know most of you don't feed kibble at all, but if you did mix kibble and raw, what would be your rule of thumb on this? I would think the amount matters. If I leave less than a tbsp of kibble for her overnight, should I still be as concerned about combining the two? I have been feeding her canned as her last and first meals of the day as a buffer, but I would like to feed her more raw.

It's weird, but even though I feel like I've done a lot of research already, every day I come up with a little question that I hadn't even thought of. Thanks for all the support here! The raw feeding group is so awesome. I couldn't imagine making this transition without you all. I would probably be in a straightjacket somewhere.

 

[ldg]

When we first transitioned to raw, Lazlo was in chemo, and I fed him pretty much whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. I still had kibble here, and I really didn't worry about feeding him some kibble. Given it's not going to be a long term thing, I'm not so sure it's much of an issue. The Epigen 90 is low carb, and I'm pretty sure the issue with kibble and raw and different digestion times is as re: protein vs. carbs, not so much the delivery of those (kibble vs canned vs raw). :dk:

 

[vball91]

Well, we've had a couple of setbacks.

1. She doesn't seem to like raw chicken anymore, even with toppers. I think she's bored with it. I did introduce beef, but she doesn't seem to like that either. No issues with it but clearly not a fan. I think I'll try some lamb next since she does seem to like it in canned form.
2. She will NOT eat more than .5 oz of raw at a time. I have been trying to get her on a schedule, but even after 8 hours of no food, she will not eat more than that at a time. I hesitate to go longer than that without food since she does get stomach acid buildup issues.
3. She does not like S&C freeze dried at all, as is or rehydrated. Have tried turkey and chicken, and she won't even try them, not even with toppers. I still have duck/goose to try, but I'm not hopeful. I thought this would be a good option overnight or if I'm gone for a day but I guess not.

Just venting a little. She's still at about 1.5 oz raw with the rest canned, but it is a struggle to get her to eat even that much raw.

Oh, and some days she loves raw egg yolk, and other days, she won't touch it. What's up with that?

 

[ldg]

I forget - are you feeding commercial raw (ground)? Or homemade chunks? And have you experimented at all with various toppers for the food? And what happens if you mix it INTO the canned food?

... I know we've talked about it in the forum, but I don't remember who said what. :lol3:

 

[vball91]

Homemade chunks which she will eat most of the time. Sometimes though she will just lick off the topper or COTW which drives me nuts because then I have to somehow get her to eat the meat without the COTW. Toppers galore!

I have tried mixing it with the canned with partial success. I think it's a texture thing. With pate style canned, she only likes those gravified with some warm water. If I put raw chunks in there she ignores them for the gravy. If I put them in with chunkier canned, she'll eat some of it. I don't know why but she always leaves food behind, even if it's one chunk or one piece of kibble. It doesn't matter how much or how little I give her. I've experimented with different amounts. If I leave it out she'll go back and finish later, but she will not eat it all in one sitting.

 

[ldg]

Have you tried a commercial raw? Just to see if it's a texture thing? Given she likes the gravy, if you can find - and afford - Rad Cat, IMO it's worth the try. It's very finely ground, and uses bone meal rather than ground bone, so it's very smooth and juicy. Of course, this would imply you're willing to buy a grinder and make ground if she likes it. But just throwing that out there as an idea...

 

[maraozza]

Well, we've had a couple of setbacks.

1. She doesn't seem to like raw chicken anymore, even with toppers. I think she's bored with it. I did introduce beef, but she doesn't seem to like that either. No issues with it but clearly not a fan. I think I'll try some lamb next since she does seem to like it in canned form.
2. She will NOT eat more than .5 oz of raw at a time. I have been trying to get her on a schedule, but even after 8 hours of no food, she will not eat more than that at a time. I hesitate to go longer than that without food since she does get stomach acid buildup issues.
3. She does not like S&C freeze dried at all, as is or rehydrated. Have tried turkey and chicken, and she won't even try them, not even with toppers. I still have duck/goose to try, but I'm not hopeful. I thought this would be a good option overnight or if I'm gone for a day but I guess not.

Just venting a little. She's still at about 1.5 oz raw with the rest canned, but it is a struggle to get her to eat even that much raw.

Oh, and some days she loves raw egg yolk, and other days, she won't touch it. What's up with that?

I know exactly what you’re talking about! Same thing is here: back in the summer, when I first introduced raw meat diet to my cat, he was enjoying every single kind of protein he was offered. He didn’t need any toppings and was done with his raw meals in no time. From the beginning he was eating home prepared frankey prey diet, but I was and still feeding him canned food as well.

After a month or so, he suddenly changed his mind and wasn’t fond of the raw meat that much anymore. He refused to eat chicken, turkey, lamb, hearts and etc. So, now I am using a topping to make him eat his raw meals. He likes a lot a FD Whole Life Turkey, loves the Stella and Chewy’s and The Call of the Wild supplement (too bad for us, none of them are sold here, so I have to order it).

Sometimes though she will just lick off the topper or COTW which drives me nuts because then I have to somehow get her to eat the meat without the COTW. Toppers galore!

You can try to mix the COTW with semi-thawed chunks, so when it’s completely thawed and ready to be served, all chunks will be covered with gooey and smelly chicken stock-like substance which is very appealing to the cats.

I don't know why but she always leaves food behind, even if it's one chunk or one piece of kibble. It doesn't matter how much or how little I give her. I've experimented with different amounts. If I leave it out she'll go back and finish later, but she will not eat it all in one sitting.

Mine does that too, he’ll leave a piece or two on the plate, so he can come a little later and finish it. Lately, he started to like again his raw and will eat it more willingly, so with cats you never know; one day they love it, next day it’s okay and another day they’ll hate it!

 

[vball91]

Have you tried a commercial raw? Just to see if it's a texture thing? Given she likes the gravy, if you can find - and afford - Rad Cat, IMO it's worth the try. It's very finely ground, and uses bone meal rather than ground bone, so it's very smooth and juicy. Of course, this would imply you're willing to buy a grinder and make ground if she likes it. But just throwing that out there as an idea...

Unfortunately, no store near me carries Rad Cat to easily try it. I did try to finely mince the beef, and that did have some partial success. She ate more of it than with bigger chunks, so I will stick to finely mincing for a while.

 

[vball91]

You can try to mix the COTW with semi-thawed chunks, so when it’s completely thawed and ready to be served, all chunks will be covered with gooey and smelly chicken stock-like substance which is very appealing to the cats.

Believe me, after the first time she pulled that trick, I made sure the COTW was mixed in thoroughly. However, she will patiently lick each piece of meat to get the flavor and still somehowo leave most of the meat behind. I did try finely mincing the meat, and that worked better, probably because in all her licking, more of the smaller pieces got licked up into her mouth and it was easier for her to eat it than spit it back out.

I'm still hopeful though. I think I'm just being impatient because I would like her to eat 100% raw. I only introduced raw 3 weeks ago, and she is already eating so much better than she used to. I just need to slow down and let her transition at her own pace.

Thanks for your response. It's just nice to vent here to people who understand, and it's also comforting to hear that other cats have had similar reactions.

 

[otto]

What a tough nut! I sympathize with you so much! Ootay was like that with leaving food, she never EVER cleaned her dish. I could put two tiny spots of food, and she would eat only one, no matter how hungry she was.

Also though, Ootay wouldn't touch a dish that had TOO MUCH food in it. Two more of my cats are like that too, regarding quantity in the dish. What size are your portions? Have you tried smaller portions? You said she won't eat more than .5 oz at a time, so what if you gave only that much (or even less) in several servings?

 

[ldg]

Yeah, it can be REALLY frustrating. There was a point there when I found myself spending about 2 hours trying to get all 8 cats eating their raw meals. :lol3: That was when I said - what am I DOING? :frusty: Just back up, slow down, and don't try so hard... gotta get them eating it, but at their pace.


No fun if we drive ourselves nuts in the process. :grphug2:

...and yeah, it REALLY helps to be able to vent here!

 

[vball91]

So we've had a couple of good days. She's eaten almost 2 oz of raw each day split into 5 servings

, supplemented with a little canned and Epigen 90 overnight. Seems to work for us right now. My "grand plan" was to get her to 3 feedings of 1 oz each raw a day, but I'm putting that on the back burner for now. I'm just going to try to get her eating as much raw as possible, and THEN try to get on a better schedule. I introduced lamb which caused no issues (but no excitement either), so I'm rotating between chicken, Cornish hen (which probably doesn't taste any different than chicken), beef and lamb now. I try to give her something different at every meal so she doesn't tire of anything. I'll introduce pork next, then probably duck. I just wish I could find something that she loves as much as she loves raw shrimp!

I also introduced probiotics, and that's caused no issues, so progress is being made. Next I'lll be adding salmon oil which theoretically she should love since she loves fish!

 

[ldg]

Well you sound happy, so that's good!

And there must be a difference between Cornish Hen and chicken to the cats, because otto's Mazy LOVES cornish hen, but if I remember correctly, doesn't like chicken!

 

[otto]

Sounds like it's going great vball! Mazy does love cornish hen. It took her some time to take to chicken breast and she still prefers a little topper on it but she likes chicken thigh. I would say turkey thigh is her favorite though, then the hen.