Need good advice fast please

[needhelppls]

I have had a cat for a year and a half now and have only ever had a few small problems, I thought my cat would be able to get along with a new addition to the family I was wrong i tried following introduction steps and everything and was told not to let them fight it out so when they started brawling I interviened i grabbed them both by the scruffs of the neck as they swung wildly at each other sractching me to death and i lost my temper and spanked them both now neither cat can stand to be near me and they both growl at me the same they did to eachother what can i do to at least make make sure i dont have to rehome them because they hate me

 

[captain dave]

If you can, separate them for awhile - put one in one room and the other in another room, make sure there is food and water for both (and a litter box - you can pick up a disposable "travel" litter box, complete with litter, for just a few bucks at even grocery stores), and then as much as it may seem like a pain, slowly re-introduce.

Yep...all of that stuff you tried? Time to do it all over again. Only this time, stand by with a squirt bottle full of just plain water. If they get uppity? Give them a squirt! Set it for stream, not spray, and practice your aim a bit - usually two or three squirts is enough - not in the face, but on the front of their body most definitely - enough to get their attention. It's harmless, it gets the point across, and it's easy to do from across the room if you have a really good one. Back it up with a barked "No!". Eventually, you may not even need the squirt bottle - just the sound of your "No!" should suffice.

It puts YOU back as the "alpha" without having to resort to physical discipline.

It's going to take some time, but eventually, they'll have worked out their "system" and their "territory", and you can have a happy home with two kitties instead of just one!

 

[needhelppls]

I tried the water bottle on mist and it doesnt seem to work I will try stream and will they stop growling at me over the next few days? My first cat ive spanked before and it was never an issue but he hate me after this one

 

[captain dave]

They'll mope and sulk for probably the remainder of the day/night, but should be fine in the morning.

Another thing you can try that seems to be highly recommended on here is the Feliway plug-in or spray bottle - it's a pheromone spray that helps to calm cats down, de-stresses, even helps in situations like yours from what I've seen reviewed here and there. I'd not heard of it before until coming here, but I'm going to see about getting some for when my two furbabies have had enough of one another (it happens - they're just like human siblings in that regard).

 

[Kat0121]

 
I tried the water bottle on mist and it doesnt seem to work I will try stream and will they stop growling at me over the next few days? My first cat ive spanked before and it was never an issue but he hate me after this one

 Please get rid of the water bottle. The only thing it does is make the cats distrust you. Please DO NOT spank a cat. That is never the answer. Are both of the cats spayed/neutered? If not, this could be a part of the problem.

How long did you take before introducing them fully? There is a right and wrong way to introduce cats to each other. If you rush the process, you get problems.

This article is very helpful when it comes to cat/cat introductions. The best thing to do at this point is to separate them and reintroduce them slowly

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-successfully-introduce-cats-the-ultimate-guide

You are going to need to relax around them. They are picking up on your anger and tension. You need to understand that these things take time. Any relationship takes time to build. Spend time with each cat individually because yes, they are probably mad but they don't hate you. They do not know why you spanked them and the water bottle didn't help matters. Talk to them calmly and let them know that everything is OK. Give them time to calm down- and you too. Try to see things from their point of view. One cat has another strange cat in his territory and another cat is in a strange with unfamiliar surroundings and smells- plus an unfamiliar cat.

Here are some more articles that will help you

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/breaking-up-cat-fights

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/cat-aggression-toward-people

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/cats-and-discipline-dont-mix

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/the-dos-and-donts-of-cat-behavior-modification

 

[sprin]

I agree with Kat0121, cats really don't learn anything from disciplining them. I know it's really stressful when cats are fighting, but spraying water on them and spanking are only going to make your relationship with them antagonistic. The articles she linked are helpful, and hopefully you can reintroduce them. How did you introduce them the first time? How long has your new cat been in the house? What are their names? As you learned, never put yourself between two cats that are fighting. They're so wired that they won't even be able to think about scratching you. If they're fighting, then do something distracting like throwing a blanket on them, putting a large object between them, moving a toy around them room to redirect their attention, or separating them in different rooms when you see them starting the seem aggressive.

 

[talkingpeanut]

To build on what others have said, physical discipline is never the answer.  Spraying also counts as physical discipline.  A cat will never understand that you are hitting them or spraying them because of something they are doing; they will understand that a person they previously considered safe, their owner, is doing things to hurt them.  This raises aggression issues in the house, between all members, and will damage your relationship.  

Instead, follow the reintroduction advice above.  Reward the cats when they are acting in a way that you approve of.  They'll learn, but you need to calm down to help them calm down.

 

[jennyr]

I can only reinforce the advice to NEVER spray or spank. But you already realise that spanking does no good and only makes them scared of you. The water bottle will do the same thing - they will associate it with you, not with their behaviour. Start intros again, if you didn't last time try and mix their scents by swapping litter trays and blankets to get them used to each other's smells. ~I would put your own scent in there too by placing a Tshirt or something you have worn under the food bowls. Feliway may help, but not all cats respond to it.

These two have started off so badly that it may take a long time. And some cats never get on, whatever you do. but it is certainly trying again.

 

[kitcat 0221]

Yes I agree with Kat0121 don't hurt a cat! You may have to get rid of one if you don't know what to do or just make sure you give love to both of them because they might be jealous of each other

 

[captain dave]

Let me clarify:

Only in extreme situations is when I have had to use a water bottle. Let me explain what I mean by "extreme" - I used to border homeless, abandoned cats. I'd take them in out of the cold, worm them, clean them up, de-flea them, vaccinate them, spay/neuter them, and find them good, loving homes. However, when you are talking upwards of a dozen or more cats together under one roof, things can (and did) get out of hand unless I was able to stop it from happening IMMEDIATELY.

Hence, the water bottle.

Now, I'm not talking about drenching them, here. I'm not turning on a firehose and blasting them with it.

I'm talking one or two squirts from across the room.

As one person said, a distraction may be necessary, though the distraction in that case was throwing a blanket on them.

That kind of distraction, when you're talking about a fight situation developing, may wind up working well enough - but not when it was in my situation. All that would have done would be to disorient and confuse and may well have wound up causing harm, whereas one or two squirts from the water bottle was more than enough to stop the developing fight (the posturing phase) IMMEDIATELY without causing any harm other than a bruised ego from said cat, and a few minutes of licking.

I had never had anything but positive results...but, as with ANY form of discipline, whether a water bottle, a thrown blanket, or even just stepping into the middle of it with a firm "NO!", your mileage may vary.

To say that NO discipline is ever warranted is, in my view, a complete fantasy - because even just saying "No!" is a form of discipline.

Any form of physical discipline should never be considered, unless (and ONLY unless) there is immediate physical danger that is involved (cat about to jump on a hot stove despite your already having said "No!", for example), and then only a quick swat to move them AWAY from said danger if, and ONLY if, that is the only thing that will stop the dangerous situation from occurring. However, that being said, spanking should never be an option.

I know that we humans do tend to get upset, frustrated, and outright angry in certain situations, and we tend to RE-act to something in a negative way, rather than seeking a way to be PRO-active about it. I'd be lying if I said that I haven't done this myself. How I handled the affair AFTERWARD, however, was to apologize, make amends in the form of cuddling, petting, speaking softly, and even explaining why I wound up getting so upset. Now, the cat may not understand the words (they're more for the human's benefit), but they do understand the emotions and the actions. 

I am not, in any way, attempting to justify said behavior by illustrating some method of an emolliant toward it. Rather, I am stating what *I* have done when *I* have had a similar situation happen in *MY* life.

Now, that being said, whatever you choose (throwing a blanket on them, using a water bottle, using aromatherapy in conjunction with proactive measures, or sending happy thoughts and pixie dust their way - hey, you never know! They often act like little undisciplined Lost Boys/Girls running loose in Never-Neverland!), let it be a method that you have carefully considered from any and all angles.

Last, but not least - here's hoping that your situation improves! Right now, your resident (and dominant) cat is feeling that there's an intruder, and your new addition is on the defensive. It DOES get better, but you have to be the one to take charge to see that it winds up being a positive situation for both.

And to any who may still be shaking their heads in my direction about the water bottle, let me just state:

1: I don't use one in my current situation
2: I used it under extreme situations
3: It was recommended for me to use by someone who runs a shelter, along with instructions to not use it just willy-nilly
...and...
4: You weren't in my situation.

That is all I have to add to this conversation.

Best of luck to you, and may you have happy kitty love from TWO furbabies!

Blessings!

 

[Willowy]

Using a spray bottle to break up a fight is one thing. Much better than sticking your hand in the middle of a cat fight! But that's an extreme circumstance. You want to try to keep things from turning into an all-out fight.

If you're trying to help them get along, don't do anything unpleasant or they'll never like each other. In the cat's mind, if he gets sprayed for growling at the other cat, that terrible rotten other cat is responsible for it! Grrr! So that just makes their relationship worse. You need to help them have positive associations with each other. The links that were already posted have good advice.

I hope the introductions go well!

 

[Anne]

 
Let me clarify:

Only in extreme situations is when I have had to use a water bottle. Let me explain what I mean by "extreme" - I used to border homeless, abandoned cats. I'd take them in out of the cold, worm them, clean them up, de-flea them, vaccinate them, spay/neuter them, and find them good, loving homes. However, when you are talking upwards of a dozen or more cats together under one roof, things can (and did) get out of hand unless I was able to stop it from happening IMMEDIATELY.

Hence, the water bottle.

Now, I'm not talking about drenching them, here. I'm not turning on a firehose and blasting them with it.

I'm talking one or two squirts from across the room.

As one person said, a distraction may be necessary, though the distraction in that case was throwing a blanket on them.

That kind of distraction, when you're talking about a fight situation developing, may wind up working well enough - but not when it was in my situation. All that would have done would be to disorient and confuse and may well have wound up causing harm, whereas one or two squirts from the water bottle was more than enough to stop the developing fight (the posturing phase) IMMEDIATELY without causing any harm other than a bruised ego from said cat, and a few minutes of licking.

I had never had anything but positive results...but, as with ANY form of discipline, whether a water bottle, a thrown blanket, or even just stepping into the middle of it with a firm "NO!", your mileage may vary.

To say that NO discipline is ever warranted is, in my view, a complete fantasy - because even just saying "No!" is a form of discipline.

Any form of physical discipline should never be considered, unless (and ONLY unless) there is immediate physical danger that is involved (cat about to jump on a hot stove despite your already having said "No!", for example), and then only a quick swat to move them AWAY from said danger if, and ONLY if, that is the only thing that will stop the dangerous situation from occurring. However, that being said, spanking should never be an option.

I know that we humans do tend to get upset, frustrated, and outright angry in certain situations, and we tend to RE-act to something in a negative way, rather than seeking a way to be PRO-active about it. I'd be lying if I said that I haven't done this myself. How I handled the affair AFTERWARD, however, was to apologize, make amends in the form of cuddling, petting, speaking softly, and even explaining why I wound up getting so upset. Now, the cat may not understand the words (they're more for the human's benefit), but they do understand the emotions and the actions. 

I am not, in any way, attempting to justify said behavior by illustrating some method of an emolliant toward it. Rather, I am stating what *I* have done when *I* have had a similar situation happen in *MY* life.

Now, that being said, whatever you choose (throwing a blanket on them, using a water bottle, using aromatherapy in conjunction with proactive measures, or sending happy thoughts and pixie dust their way - hey, you never know! They often act like little undisciplined Lost Boys/Girls running loose in Never-Neverland!), let it be a method that you have carefully considered from any and all angles.

Last, but not least - here's hoping that your situation improves! Right now, your resident (and dominant) cat is feeling that there's an intruder, and your new addition is on the defensive. It DOES get better, but you have to be the one to take charge to see that it winds up being a positive situation for both.

And to any who may still be shaking their heads in my direction about the water bottle, let me just state:

1: I don't use one in my current situation
2: I used it under extreme situations
3: It was recommended for me to use by someone who runs a shelter, along with instructions to not use it just willy-nilly
...and...
4: You weren't in my situation.

That is all I have to add to this conversation.

Best of luck to you, and may you have happy kitty love from TWO furbabies!

Blessings!

Thank you for clarifying. I think part of the problem was with this being an introduction situation. Not at all like the ones you described. 

I still think spraying and even reprimanding with voice is a bad idea with most cats and this is why I would not suggest this for anyone else to try. It's not that I never ever said "no!" to a cat. It's just that I trust myself to be able to know when it's going to do more harm than good, use it sparingly, gently and not with certain cats (shy or scaredy cats). In the forums, I'd never suggest this technique to anyone though. Way too easy for it to backfire and just agitate an already nervous cat, IMO.

I elaborated some more here - 

 [article="32493"]The Dos And Donts Of Cat Behavior Modification​[/article]  

Anyway, I mainly wanted to say I enjoyed reading how much you help cats and wanted to suggest applying for our award here  
[thread="251561"]Friend Of Ferals Award Badge Apply Here  [/thread]

 

[captain dave]

Thank you, Anne, and yes, I can most definitely agree about the voice when dealing with cats that are easily startled, stressed out, etc. It can turn your good intention of not knocking over that potted plant (and why would one still have potted plants AND cats? Ahem...I digress) into a situation where you are someone to be feared.

This is why I absolutely CRINGE whenever I hear of someone recommending hissing at their cat when it does something bad. "You're using their language" is one justification I've heard for this. Um...no...you're issuing a challenge, making yourself bigger, and showing that YOU ARE TO BE FEARED...and that's exactly what happens. Your cat comes to see you not as their provider, not as their leader, not as the colony "alpha" if you have more than one, or several, but as the big, bad, tyrant that should never be challenged on pain of death! THAT is "their language", and yet I still see people recommending hissing...*shudder*...

When I have to, I use a firm, commanding "No!" followed by an explanation in a normal (but firm) tone. It seems to work quite well for me. Fortunately, the times I need to do this have grown increasingly few and far between. 

Of course, as soon as I posted that, Zoey decided that my wrist needed to be chewed. For no apparent reason. Ahem...

OW!!! And just now, she pounced on my OTHER arm and attacked my forearm, then scampered away. Little turd...she's "feeling her oats" tonight, with a twist of demonic possession. 

 

[handsome kitty]

I recommend separating the cats.  You only have to get your hands on one cat and put it in a room.  Toss a blanket or towel on it and scoop it up.   I used the 'safe room' for time outs.  It is actually a favorite room w/a lofted bed and a great view of the yard and beyond.  The other cat was left to wander.  I would alternate which cat was put in the room.  After a week or two of this, if I heard the hissing begin and went in search of the kitties, I would come upon the two cats just sitting near each other looking innocent.    They still get separated occasionally  but it's because one cat wants to play rougher than the other.

 

[ohws]

This is why I absolutely CRINGE whenever I hear of someone recommending hissing at their cat when it does something bad. "You're using their language" is one justification I've heard for this. Um...no...you're issuing a challenge, making yourself bigger, and showing that YOU ARE TO BE FEARED...and that's exactly what happens. Your cat comes to see you not as their provider, not as their leader, not as the colony "alpha" if you have more than one, or several, but as the big, bad, tyrant that should never be challenged on pain of death! THAT is "their language", and yet I still see people recommending hissing...*shudder*...

While hissing can be a challenge, that derives from the context, where one cat hisses to dare another cat to challenge. Another context is that a kitten is hurt by another kitten, when it will hiss.

So if we are talking about a cat jumping onto a kitchen work surface, hissing does not fit the context because it will be interpreted as you suggest. But if you tread on a cat's paw by accident, it is very likely to hiss . So if the cat proceeds to bite your toe, a hiss could be very appropriate, because it is relevant to the context, that the cat needs to stop what it is doing

 

[onirin]

Not sure if it's already been said but a blanket/towel worked really well for me on my introductions.

Thankfully the cats have never gone full blown fur flying.  They would hiss, swat, and growl and that is when I would use a towel between them or throw a blanket over one.

And yes it sounds like you'll have to start from scratch with intros again.  When it's time to have supervised visits watch their behavior, without hovering over them too much (this stresses them out).

If a cat hisses more than 2-3 times then the session is over for now, time to put one back in the room.

If there is EVER a growl I put the new cat away.

I never let it escalate to a fight, I would stop it before it got that bad by ending on a good note.  If your cat is itching for a fight out of the gate they are not ready for visits and you'll need to go back a step and wait till they are comfortable at the door again.

Intros became much easier for me once I learned about Cat body language.

A hiss is a defensive action.  The cat is staying "stay away or I'll hit!" So one hiss is normally ok but multiple hisses is a sign that cat is really about to defend itself.  If there is a hiss and the other cat moves away thats a good sign, they are respecting each others space.

A growl is an aggressive action.  Your cat is REALLY unhappy and might stat a fight.  Thats why if I even heard a hint of a growl it was time to seperate.

Hang in there!