my cats breed?

[clynn11]

I'm talking about ferals and strays out in the wild. Not breeding, because obviously they are in a controlled environment. This is just what I have read online from many, many sites and saw on 'Cats: In the Womb' featured on National Geographic, like I stated above. I'm obviously no expert- i'm not a breeder nor do I ever plan to be so i'm sure you guys know waaaay more about it than I do as you have to learn about genetics and coloring, etc. for certain breedings. I have heard personal stories from people of a cat giving birth to 4 kittens, then a week later giving birth to another three and she said they were all fine. Now, I didn't actually SEE it with my own eyes so I have no clue if that person was telling the truth. I did find just a couple of similar stories online as well.

 

[missymotus]

I'm talking about ferals and strays out in the wild. Not breeding, because obviously they are in a controlled environment. 

I'm quite sure NG is also talking about outdoor matings, as it was mentioned in her previous post.

 I have heard personal stories from people of a cat giving birth to 4 kittens, then a week later giving birth to another three and she said they were all fine. Now, I didn't actually SEE it with my own eyes so I have no clue if that person was telling the truth. I did find just a couple of similar stories online as well.

The stories and kittens exist for sure, I have heard of such stories on very rare occasions.

I am very interested in any studies proving the 80% figure, realise you are just passing on what you heard but they must get these "facts" from somewhere. 

Cat colours can are more than what's seen, with hidden recessive colours and patterns, I can understand how someone might look at a multi coloured litter and think they must be from different fathers.

 

[orientalslave]

Suspect the percentage depends on where you live (how many toms?), and what the dominance hierachy in the local toms is - how many of them get to mate her?

I'm sure my cat back in 1993 had kittens from two fathers - there were two toms hanging round my back yard when she was coming into call.  And I know of a breeder who had an 'oops' litter with two different fathers - I can't remember how it happened, but the girl got in with one and mated once, she put her in with the stud she wanted her to breed with, and there were clearly kittens from both in the litter which made registering them rather 'interesting'... 

 

[northernglow]

I'm quite sure NG is also talking about outdoor matings, as it was mentioned in her previous post.

Indeed I did. Specially the outdoor matings, as I also mentioned that I could see it more possible happening with indoor cats ("controlled environment" and the studs would know each other well enough to be more likely to share the female). The indoor rambling was an example about the mating times. Outdoors the female can mate with who knows how many males in a long period of time which usually leads to non surviving kittens if there's more than one father.

I'm originally from a small town which had some farms there with cats inbreeding for generations, then it was quite hard to say if a litter had multiple fathers as they were all from the same 'color palette' and recessive genes could have come from several generations back (and for example our 'pure' domestic cat population doesn't carry colorpoint gene, but does longhair).

I do know of a case where a breeder had "partly accidental" mating. They had a stud and queen in a room, and their 6 months old male kitten from a different breed (and color) had sneaked into the room and mated with the female, both males in 24h. The breeder thought the kitten was too young and that they got away with a scare.. The female ended up giving birth to 4 dead kittens prematurely, all very likely from the stud she was meant to be with, and 4 days later she gave birth to one almost hairless kitten which was barely alive and clearly not from the correct stud. The poor kitten only lived for 4 weeks so in the end no surviving kittens.

Sorry if my sentences are weird and sound like gibberish. I don't speak english that well (just a reminder so you don't think I'm completely retarded).

 

[orientalslave]

A queen mating with several males does NOT usually lead to dead kittens.  If it did the cat wouldn't be as successful as it is.  Mating with several males is a genetic advantage to the queen - by having kittens with several fathers she is tending to increase their genetic diversity, and thus their changes of having good genes.

It is also very rare for a queen to carry two litters of different ages at the same time.  People remember apparent occurances of this exactly because they are rare.

 

[nekochan]

My vet thought my litter of feral rescues might be a case of two litters of different gestational ages, since there were 7 kittens in the litter and three of them were MUCH smaller than the other four.  We don't know for sure if that was the case or if the smaller kittens may have just not gotten enough nutrition either in the womb or after they were born (I found them at about 2-3 weeks old in my yard.) All I know for sure is judging by the smaller kittens' condition they probably would not have survived if I hadn't found them...

Comparison showing the size difference between two of the kittens:

 

[orientalslave]

Since you found them in your back yard, I would have thought it possible they are really kittens from two litters.  The size difference is quite striking.

 

[nekochan]

Well to be from different litters they would have had to be from different mothers and I'm pretty sure they were from the same mother if not full siblings; they were all huddled in a flowerpot together when I found them and the mother was in the area, plus they looked too much alike to not be at least the same mother if not full siblings-- all brown tabbies or torbies, some of both sizes also had white markings, and several of the kittens from both sizes were ticked tabbies/torbies, which I've been told is pretty uncommon in the random-bred population so it seems unlikely for them to be from different parents...

Also, when I found them, despite the size difference the other developmental/age markers indicated them to be around the same age (eyes/ears development, teeth eruption, etc...) So it's also possible they may have all been the same gestational age/litter, but the smaller ones may have been runts; or may have shared placentas with others; or may have been malnourished or sickly. It could also be possible the smaller ones were gestationally younger but not enough younger for it to be that noticeable in terms of development, but enough of a difference that the bigger kittens out-competed them for milk.

This is the whole group:

 

[northernglow]

Tomu's mother actually gave birth to 7 kittens, 5 of them alive. Both of the dead kittens were much smaller than the others, and the other one was born 48h after the others. The mother had been with a stud for 48h (first litter for both, second try). One of the surviving kittens was also incredibly tiny and I was sure she wasn't going to make it, but she did. The largest kitten was almost two times the size of the smallest.

 

[missymotus]

Comparison showing the size difference between two of the kittens:

I've seen similar size differences from other breeders, where the mating time was 2 days.

 

[nekochan]

Interesting!

 

[missymotus]

I ended up loosing this little man,  but again from a short mating and was normal sized at birth.

 

[jcat]

Cats in the Womb is on YouTube:

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