My cat is in early stages of CRF

stephanietx

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My Callie eats SC k/d and she LOVES the dry. She won't touch the canned, but at this stage of the game, I don't push canned on her. I really just want her to eat! The canned I do give her is not enough to really equal a serving, just enough to disguise her meds and give her some nutrition.
More important than WHAT you feed (other than it being a food that is easy on the kidneys) is that she eats. Keeping them eating is the key.
 
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three4rd

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Yes...I'm definitely going to go with the subQ. The vet has suggested once a week. I've been looking at videos and info about self-administering the fluids. The most complicated part looks to be managing all the equipment, since it appears that you constantly have to be purchasing things. I'm just not sure about all that. Actually giving the fluids looks to be the easy part (although I'm not sure I could bring myself to stick Jasmine with the needle). I'll have to watch and learn when I get there.

One thing I'm wondering about is....does the giving of fluids at all aid with maintaining appetite? I've read much that seems to suggest that the fluids make them feel better, and so I wondered if it at all helps with keeping up food intake? Then there's the whole issue of appetite stimulants I suppose.
 

mews2much

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I get Cocos fluids at Thriving Pets.
It is $40 for 12 bags which is way cheaper then the vet.
What type of fluids is she going to get?
The fluids do make them feel better.
Coco gets Pepsid A/C for the nasea.
Ask the vet before you give your cat anything.

 

motoko9

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I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm yet another member who has administered sub-Q fluids in the past. It is normal to be worried, but you can do it! I also wanted to add that when I was doing it (this was about four years ago), the equipment did not strike me as expensive, at least not relative to other treatments I've paid for over the years. Good luck to you!
 

sharky

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My vet advised me as she showed me how to do sub q s .. Always HAVE two people to do it .... she nor the tech would with their experience do a cat alone
 
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three4rd

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Hi,

Thanks for the reply and encouragement. I'll probably get more confidence once I see it done a few times.

Regards,
Keith
 

ktlynn

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Hi Keith-
I'm glad you'll be doing the sub-q fluids (hydration) - it's the single most important thing for a CRF kitty. The sooner you start, the better.

Once a week is a cinch - some folks do it every day.

A couple of tips:
1) Make sure to warm the fluids before you administer them. You can put the fluid bag right into a sink full of warm water. Many vets won't take the time to do this, but you should when giving fluid at home. To warm a full bag (1000mL), about 5 -10 minutes should be fine; it will take less time as you use up the bag. Always test the fluid before you give it by letting some run out of the needle onto your wrist.

2) Use a 20 gauge needle. Vets use an 18 gauge because it's a larger needle and the fluid comes out a bit more quickly, but a 20 gauge is finer and will be more comfortable for Jasmine. Always use a new needle each time you hydrate her.

The websites other members gave you are good ones. I referred to them plenty of times when I first started.

Jasmine's numbers aren't too bad right now. With regular hydration, they should go back into the normal range. BUN can change often, depending on what the cat has eaten. Creatinine is considered the more "important" number to watch. At the lab my vets use, a creatinine of 2.4 is high normal.

As other members have pointed out, diet is important, and wet is better than dry food. I'm not crazy about Hill's products - IMO it's inferior food at a premium price. Most vets recommend that food because they sell it. You want the highest quality food that you can buy. For my cat, Wellness (grain free) canned food worked best. She got California Natural dry food only as a treat, not for meals. We also gave her fresh roasted white meat chicken and turkey. Keeping weight on cats with kidney disease can be challenging. Don't force Jasmine to eat food she doesn't like.

Very important: please keep a very careful eye on Jasmine's blood pressure. High bp often accompanies kidney disease and can be deadly. Make sure you get regular blood pressure readings at the vet. If she does develop high bp, there are meds to control it.

Since Jasmine is hyperthyroid and the meds are causing appetite problems, you might want to look into I-131 treatment. It's expensive but in most cases it cures hyperthyroidism, eliminating the need for meds.

I did sub-q fluids for my Mickey for over 6 years. We started as soon as she was diagnosed. For the last 2 years of fluids we hydrated her 4 times per week. In addition to CRF, Mick had liver disease and IBS. I lost my beautiful Mickey this past December. She was 21. I have no doubt that hydration extended her life.

I hope you and Jasmine will have many more happy years together.
 

sweetpea24

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I would also suggest to administering the fluids in different spots. One between the shoulder blades and then maybe two other spots on either side of her body. Meaning split the fluid amount amongst those three spots.

Essentially sub q fluids should be administered more than once a week but most people cannot do it every day and their cat may not tolerate it. Vets suggest once weekly for the convenience of the owner. You can also try force feeding water or alternating these methods.

Using a smaller needle may be more comfortable for your cat. You can always wrap him up in a blanket like a burrito so he can't move around too much. Good luck!
 

ktlynn

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Originally Posted by SweetPea24

I would also suggest to administering the fluids in different spots. One between the shoulder blades and then maybe two other spots on either side of her body. Meaning split the fluid amount amongst those three spots.
It's a good idea to try to vary the injection site. Just "south" of the shoulder blades is where it's safest, and most comfortable for the cat. You can do it in the center of this area, but must always be extremely careful to stay away from the spine. A little to the left or right of the center is fine too - the skin is usually loose enough to insert the needle comfortably. Unless you are giving a large amount of fluid (over 200mL) you want to avoid multiple needle sticks. My Mickey was getting 200mL and was fine with one injection site. The fluid will settle in different areas depending on the cat. I wouldn't suggest more than 2 injections per hydration session.

Originally Posted by SweetPea

Essentially sub q fluids should be administered more than once a week but most people cannot do it every day and their cat may not tolerate it. Vets suggest once weekly for the convenience of the owner. You can also try force feeding water or alternating these methods.
Sub q's are administered according to each individual cat's requirements. The frequency and amount of fluids will vary depending on the severity of the CRF. Some cats are fine for years with twice weekly administration, others require daily fluids, some even twice daily. I have never heard of a vet suggest just once weekly simply for the convenience of the owner. It would be like giving a med whenever the owner could get around to it. Likes meds, hydration is effective only if you stick to the prescribed schedule. It takes commitment - the cat's health depends on it.

For most CRF kitties, "force feeding" water isn't necessary or desirable. The majority of these cats drink quite frequently. A CRF cat can never drink enough water on her own to hydrate the kidneys. That's why sub q fluid is so important.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Originally Posted by sharky

My vet advised me as she showed me how to do sub q s .. Always HAVE two people to do it .... she nor the tech would with their experience do a cat alone
Hmmm, interesting. I think there are many people here who do it alone. It's helpful, however, to have an IV pole, or some place to hang the bag above the cat. We (I should say my DH), always just used our dining room chandelier to hang the bag from...worked like a charm!
 

mews2much

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I have my husband hold the bag and I do the rest.
The higher you put the bag the faster the fluid goes in.
It will be easy for you once you get used to doing it.
 

katkisses

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I hang the bag in my closet, from a wire shelf. I just attach a clasp to the fluid bag & hang it from the shelf... I leave the bag hanging. I have a stool that I sit in the closet doorway, I sit on the stool & hold Bear in my lap while he is getting fluids. I do them by myself too.

Some people warm the fluids up, I do not. On the back of mine (the bag that the fluids come in, not the IV bag - the packaging bag) it says "aviod excessive heat." I don't want to make the fluids ineffecitive & Bear is fine with them at room temp.

Sharky, why do you suggest having 2 people? For difficult cats? Not picking on you at all, I am just curious.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by KatKisses

I hang the bag in my closet, from a wire shelf. I just attach a clasp to the fluid bag & hang it from the shelf... I leave the bag hanging. I have a stool that I sit in the closet doorway, I sit on the stool & hold Bear in my lap while he is getting fluids. I do them by myself too.

Some people warm the fluids up, I do not. On the back of mine (the bag that the fluids come in, not the IV bag - the packaging bag) it says "aviod excessive heat." I don't want to make the fluids ineffecitive & Bear is fine with them at room temp.

Sharky, why do you suggest having 2 people? For difficult cats? Not picking on you at all, I am just curious.
My vet even recommends it for placid ones... She will Not give fluids alone to a cat...
 

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i just want to chime in on the advice on sub qs that has been given. it is totally normal to think of it as something scary or difficult, or that the cat will hate you for but i have not found that to be true. I've given them to several cats including a cat who had been abused and was always a kind of jumpy cat and when i got him was very distrustful of people . So I really thought he would not tolerate it but he was SO good about it. he let other family members give it too.
It seems like (and i have heard others say this too) cats seem to learn that they feel SO much better shortly after they get the fluids.

I am able to give them by myself, I hang the bag from a wall light fixture. Right now i don't have a CRF cat (touch wood) but my 13 yr old cat Louis has some other health problems that occasionally requires fluids. For him i can easily use an 18 gauge as he was an ex stud and has quite thick skin on his neck, and he does not like being restrained for long so for him it is better to have a bigger needle and get it done faster.
I have found that just varies with the cats, some do better with higher gauge (smaller) and some better with lower.. the 22s take longer than I have found that most cats like. The 20s are ideal for most especially the Terumo ultra thin wall
 

nandsthecats

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Hi Keith,

I'm relatively new to this too, so not a lot to offer you experience-wise, but I wanted to chime in on the SubQs as another person that does them at home. I was a smidge nervous at first, but it really is no big deal once you get used to it! I can' find the link right now, but on one of these sites I read a really nice story about someone with a needle phobia who passed out the first time she saw it done at the vets, but eventually was a pro at doing them at home too.

About equipment: It really is not a lot, and is easy to get ahold of yourself. When/if you get to a point that you're comfortable doing them at home, ask your vet if s/he will write an outside prescription for fluids and needles (if your state requires it), and then check out this site: http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...es/compare.htm. Basically, you can get several months worth of supplies (1 box needles + 12 admin sets + 1 case i.e. 12 bags of fluid) all at one time for $60-$70 dollars, and you're set. That's really all you need, and if you do it that way it's WAY cheaper than getting supplies from the vet and you don't have to keep making trips.

Re: the discussion about administering them solo: I'm another person who does this totally by myself, w/o problems w/ either getting everything set up or the cat. Honestly, even if I had a second person around to help I don't think I'd use them. Spike's a really cooperative cat in general though.

Best of luck and good vibes for you and Jasmine.
 

sharky

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I should note that the one I would likely need to sub Q is in fact one of the semi ferals.....
 

mews2much

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You will need help with that one.
My Stripe was a ex feral and the vet had to do the fluids.
She went nuts at the vets also.
Some days they could not even give the fluids.
 
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