My 5 month old desexed kittens pee everywhere if I leave them at home by themselves for more than 24

[miloandotis]

Hi,

I have 2 healthy desexed part ragdoll male kittens. They are gorgeous, extremely affectionate but also incredibly frustrating when I need to leave the house.

They have kitty litter and are more than happy to use it when I'm at home, but if I leave them overnight (And I often have to leave them for up to 3 nights with work commitments) they go nuts and pee all over the house. At first it was on one of my couches, but now it's in multiple places.

I'm not sure if it's because their kitty litter is getting dirty, but there's been times that I haven't cleaned it for a few days when I've been home but they still haven't peed everywhere.

It's not a health issue at all as they've been checked at the vet - And getting them desexed 2 weeks ago hasn't helped the problem either.

They never pee if I'm at home so I don't know how to teach them - I can't yell at them for something I don't catch them do (And I never know which one's at fault) Any suggestions?

Also when I'm at home I let them out of the house for an hour each day - I know they miss this when I'm gone but there's nothing I can do!

Any tips for getting rid of the smell are greatly appreciated too - I'm getting embarassed to have guests over because my house smells feral!

 

[physicsgal981]

3 days is a long time to be on their own. Would it be possible to get a pet sitter? Even a trustworthy neighborhood teenager to stop by an hour or 2 a day may help this - someone to clean their box, give them fresh food and some love. Also, Feliway diffusers may help as well but I'd look into a pet sitter.

 

[orientalslave]

Leaving them for more than one night on the trot is too long - as said above, look for a reliable pet sitter.

You could also try putting out an extra tray for the odd night you have to be away.

Everywhere they have peed needs thorough cleaning with a warm solution of enzyme (biological) laundry powder or liquid, and a wipe over when dry with surgical spirits if it doesn't damage the surface.  It will help with the smell as well.  You might find some things are too far gone and have to be replaced.

 

[miloandotis]

I understand that 3 nights is a long time, but unfortunatly it's what comes with the job. More often than not it's 1 or 2 nights and they are left with plenty of food and water while I'm gone. My neighbour will pop in on day 2 just to refresh their water and give them a helping of wet food - but they live mostly off their science diet biscuits. My neighbour is not a cat fan however and I cannot ask him to clean the kitty litter or play with them.

All this said, it only takes me being gone for ONE NIGHT, and sometimes even just having a real late night out, to set off this peeing.
 

I hadn't felt too bad in the past leaving them alone because they keep each other company - but now reading online I wonder if this could be separation anxiety that makes them pee?

They're starting to pee in more and more places - the carpet, the bathroom, the toilet. I cleaned the kitty litter this morning and came home late to find they'd peed in the bath.

I'm so frustrated right now - I love these kitties so much but my entire house smells, I can't have people over and I'm putting off my next house inspection for as long as I can - PLEASE HELP!!!

 

[Willowy]

They may be trying to scent up the place so you can find your way home. . .they probably think you got lost :tongue2:.

How many litterboxes do you have? How often are they cleaned when you are home?

Maybe you can find a teenager to come play with them.

 

[physicsgal981]

One night could be enough. I had a male who peed in my shoes when I left him alone, overnight, for 24 hours (noon one day to noon the next). He also would pee on my bags when I was getting ready to leave so I had to lock him out of the bedroom.

It sounds like you are not from the US so I am not sure what to recommend. In the US, I would recommend Nature's Miracle or a similar enzyme cleaner which should help with the smell.

 

[minka]

Are you making a big fuss when you leave? Maybe they gets them stressed out.

 

[orientalslave]

Enzyme (biological) landry powder or liquid works in all countries - you make a fairly strong solution.  Once the area is dry wipe down with surgical spirit if the surface will permit.  But carpets can reach the point where getting rid of them is the only real solution.

 

[miloandotis]

Luckily it's mostly an old couch that they pee on - I'd been planning to replace it in the next few years, but will now do it once I get this problem sorted out. They also frequently pee on the bathroom tiles. I've actually caught one of them 3 times but never the other.

Otis, the one who I busted LAST NIGHT, had been quite anxious since I got him at 6 weeks old. He sometimes gets aggressively affectionate, biting you if you don't pat him and smooching you in an almost desperate manor. He seemed to be growing out of this, but now the peeing has started.

I'm tempted to buy the litter robot to see if the constant clean litter helps the problem - Have any of you guys overcome a peeing cat with this?

I don't make a fuss when I leave, but they often do, and when I get home they follow me around non stop until I go to bed and then sleep on my tummy. Sometimes they even wake me for pats.

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE these boys, i love how affectionate they are and I don't know what I'd do without them. I just can't handle my entire house smelling like cat piss and need to fix this ASAP!

I'm confused if it's a behavioral problem, or an issue with cleanliness or maybe a combination of the two?

 

[tammyp]

Hi miloandotis,

Don't put off ditching the stuff that is beyond cleaning.  This will be part of the cure.  When you look at solutions to inappropriate peeing, it's not one thing, or a timeline of things to try stage by stage; its a bunch of stuff you do all at once.  There are so many triggers you need to get every single one.  I will cut and paste a post I wrote to someone else which pretty much covers all the bases.

I also understand you need to work, and the neighbour is not ideal as a love-source for your kitties.  Please investigate professional pet sitters as suggested.  You can often find business cards at your vet, a cat specialist vet if you want cat specialist sitters, and you can also google.  Sitters aren't expensive - and once you find someone you like, have them as your regular sitter whenever you need to be away; this way your cats have someone they know too, so they will be less stressed.  Cat sitters will do more than feed/clean litter.  They often can be scheduled for 2 visits of 30mins each day (or more); and this 30mins will be full up of loves and pets and play for your little ones.

Your idea of constantly clean litter is bang on.  With two kitties, you need a minimum of 2 trays (plus one more - say many) for regular life when you are home, then cleaned at minimum once per day.  I have heard some good things about litter robot; investigate thoroughly and allow plenty of time to transition them into it's use (don't immediately take away their usual litter box, and introduce it when you are going to be home for a good stint).

In addition to the pasted info below, I think your guys definitely are sensitive to you being absent.  I have read of others providing special toys for times they will be away.  It signals these are special and they come out to say you will come back.  When you come back, pack them away again until the next time.  Also a lovely plush cuddly toy or a blanket - liberally rubbed over your face and neck (and armpits!) to coat it in your scent for comfort.  Some people give an old exercise shirt that's been sweated in (and not washed!).

Finally, as you said, telling them off won't achieve anything, even if you do catch them in the act.  It just turns you into a 'crazy monster' which adds further to their stress (which of course could be causing the pee).  I channel my frustration at such times into 'distress' - I'm so sad my blanket is all wet! - then just get on with cleaning.  And I act all excited and happy when I see them use the litter box!! Oh, and because I believe in this so passionately...maybe investigate better food.  Wet is preferable to dry for their health (and a pet sitter can give them this feed, so no issue with you not being there).

Ok, here's the paste:

1.  You had the health check, so this one's covered.  Inappropriate elimination is often a cry for help (cause you cant ignore it - lol!!  In our case, on our BED!!)

2.  Clean the pee properly.  Any residual smell - even if we can't smell it - will signal that this is a good spot to go, or as the scent weakens, this spot needs to be 'refreshed' to make the territory smell like 'mine' and be all safe and good.  Use a specific urine cleaner, these have enzymes in that eat up the pee (eg: Urine Off).  Follow the directions, and you may need a few treatments - you may also need to replace carpet underlay/whatever if the pee has gone through some layers that you can't get at it with the cleaner.  Get a black light and use it all over your house to see where pee is (it luminesses under the light) - you might be surprised.  

2. Assess the environment.  It's a pain, but make the environment the same as before when there were no issues - eg: go back to the old litter if a new one has been introduced    (And yes, sometimes, the something like litter can be fine for a month and a half, only its not fine, it's just tolerated.  So when another stressor comes along - like an infection, or your absence - the barely tolerated thing is now just plain bad).

3.  Assess the environment again.  Make sure everything is as good as it can be.  Because there's been a stressor, all types of other things that might have been tolerable, may no longer be ok.  Make things good.  This means:  litter box in a non-scary/noisy/busy area, not in an ambushable location, litter box nice and big and deep, litter box cleaned 2x day (you can go back to once a day when things settle if you choose).  If its an old litter box, you can also try buying a new one, as plastics tend to absorb odors over time (a not nice -to the cat - smell, could be building up).

4.  Assess the environment again for cat specific stressors.  Is there a reason to be peeing in that spot?  Eg:  do they feel the need to reclaim territory because something scary happened near there (a loud car, dog barking, other fright).  Is another cat peeing there - maybe on the outside of the wall (yes, it has happened before).  Is another cat/dog walking past a window, or asserting their dominance?  These are all hard to guess if you werent there at the time, but the ideas can sometimes provide clues rather than feeling like 'he's doing it for no reason'!

5.  Assess the environment yet again for emotional/psychological human stuff!  This time for  urine marking in response to other stressful situations; relocation or new family member is an obvious one.  Our cat picks up on OUR illnesses - even peed on the bed 3 days before my husband was diagnosed with Leukemia.  Think about whether you/family were under stress or illness.  Our cat also hates hearing the neighbours fight!

6.  So you've changed the environment.  Now for some magic that will help the cat feel safe and in his own territory.  Get a Feliway diffuser.  This is like a glades plug-in, but diffuses a smell (which we can't smell) that mimicks the scent marking of a happy, in-territory, cat.  Obviously, plug it in close to where he is peeing inappropriately.  You can also get a Feliway spray that is for use on changing spraying behaviour - follow the directions.

7.  There are loads of other 'tricks' to stop peeing in a certain location.  If you follow steps 1-6, I don't think your cat will re-locate the peeing to another inappropriate spot.  Citrus smells have been mentioned (works for some cats).  Also feeding them near/on the spot, putting their bed there, keeping them away from that area until they have settled down, putting double sided sticky tape on the surfaces they would need to tread to get in position.

Best wishes!

 

[orientalslave]

I'm getting the feeling your cats are actually finding life very stressful, especially when you are not around.  Have you considered consulting a behaviourist?  Not cheap, but not expensive especially compared to replacing carpets and furniture.  In the UK you need a referal from the vet for a properly qualified behvaiourist.

 

[miloandotis]

I'm going to look into a behaviourist. I do feel horribly guilty spending the days at work, I bought 2 kittens cause I couldn't bare the thought of leaving one at home alone during the day.

One HUGE thing I hadn't thought to mention is they stayed with some friends for 5 weeks while I was overseas for 5 weeks. They had lots of company and weren't peeing when this happened. They've been back with me for 3 weeks now (And desexed the day i got them back) so I'm sure all this moving has heightened their stress levels. They didn't pee at my friends place but they had their litter changed several times a day (I can't do this, I can only do morning and night)

Also when they were 3 weeks old their mum died and they were hand raised. All this moving around (3 weeks with their mum, 3 weeks hand raised by their owner, 12 weeks with me, 5 weeks with my friend, a day of being desexed at the vets, 3 weeks back with me) surely wouldn't have helped this anxiety

There is no more moving around for them, things are stable, and after this insane month with work they have me back earlier in the day and entire weekends.

They are so happy when I'm around and constantly purr so I haven't thought to worry about their mental health - but the poor things are probably so anxious when I'm away

 

[miloandotis]

So I've just bought the litter-robot. I like the idea of giving them a litter that is constantly clean and some reviews say that it's meant they can stop laying out several litter trays and just have 1.

This will take a week to arrive in the mail. In the mean time I've put a second litter tray out, this time with the clumping clay which is what the robot will take.

I've found some enzime cleaner and sprayed all the known trouble spots. I also bought some catnip toys, but as usual the kitties ate not in the least bit interested!

I'm not willing to replace the couch until the issue is gone as there's an expensive one I have my eye on and would be devistated if it became the new pee area.

As far as foods go, they're already on the top quality stuff - I feed them Sciencediet buscuites which are the absolute top of the range, specially formulated for kittens and only available from the vet and select petshops. Everything I've read and the vet has said suggests that the buscuits are better for your cat than the wet food (as long as you have a cat that drinks enough water, mine have a filtered water fountain that they love) - They also get a daily helping of raw meat, (Kangaroo, turkey or rabbit) once again specially formatted for cats and not containing a certain preservative that is often found in raw food that is known to damage the cats brain. I'll often give them some shaved turkey as a treat which is their absolute fav thing in the world. I don't think there's many cats out their fed much better than these little posh boys.

While I do spend full days at work, they get heaps of cuddles when I'm home and sleep with me on the bed. From the moment I step in the door after work, to the moment I leave in the morning they are constantly purring and cuddling when they're not play fighting with each other and tearing up the house.

I'm really hoping this overcomes the peeing issue as the next step will be the behavourist and I'd like to think it's really just a clean litter issue. I'll let you know how the litter robot goes and if they addapt to using it!

 

[tammyp]

Hi Miloandotis,

Your posts sound really positive.  I'm glad you've been able to 'put your finger' on a few of the stressors....it really helps our feelings (and hope) to know there are REASONS.

Re the litter robot, here are a couple of sites you might find interesting.  The first is about how someone introduced the robot to her kitties, and how it went down, and how she helped them 'like' it:

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/conta...mmend/my-robot-experience/cats-meet-the-robot

The next is her comprehensive review of the robot after many years of use (but I'm sure you've already done your research!):

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/conta...nd/all-about-litter/litter-robot-ii-recommend

You might get addicted to reading this lady's blog - I am! She writes so beautifully and really understands cat psyche.  There has been many a time I've been in the dumps or my wits end and not knowing what to do, and her posts have given me an amazing solution.

On the food front, keep everything the same so you can just focus on the pee problem and getting the kitties feeling all secure.  When you have everything purring along in your house again, I would suggest to jump over to the nutrition feed - specifically the raw food forum.  It will give you a heap to think about using properly researched materials.  Bear in mind that most vets arent very knowledgable on feline nutrition and unfortunately end up (unwittingly) being salespeople.  I don't say this to be derogatory, its just a fact; they have a lot to study over many many animals, so the only cat nutrition they get is over a couple months and delivered by the pet food companies, who then sponsor them with food when they go into practice.  But as said, you have a major focus on at the moment, so thinking about this is strictly for the future!

Back to the pee problem...as you are going to keep the couch, don't be surprised if your kitties keep peeing on it.  Treat it as a win if they sometimes pee on the couch but nowhere else.  I say this because you'll hopefully be able to properly clean everywhere (to the cat's nose) - except your couch.  So your couch will keep emitting an odour that says 'its good to go here!'  There may be an intermediate solution; get rid of the couch but don't invest in your new one.  Go couch free for a while, or if you really need somewhere to plonk yourself, improvise.  An outdoor chair/other chair, or to recline, use a yoga mat and some pillows (Its actually comfortable; with my husband getting leukemia and me with a chronic illness, the couch is in high demand, so we use the yoga mat and pillows!). With all traces of smell gone, you'll have a better idea of how 'retrained' your kitties are - and when the time is right for your new purchase!

Best wishes as always, and I'm glad you are feeling more 'equipped'!

 

[miloandotis]

TammyP you have been amazing with your feedback.

Writing on this forum has taken me on a journey of curiosity, stress, guilt, confusion and now some comfort.

I've had older cats in the past (Which I'd had since kittens, but I'd been a kid myself at the time) and they've adjusted so well to any changes, been a lot more independent and completely content with my comings and goings throughout the day. While the kittens are very much loved and wanted, I'd underestimated the workload involved! I wouldn't have it any other way, but they absolutely drive me insane sometimes! I can't dry clothes inside unless they're in a locked room, I can't eat a meal without them trying to get my food and they won't leave anyone alone that comes to visit (Which is extemeley funny when the odd friend hates cats - although I'm hearing a lot of "I HATE cats, I'm not a cat person at all, I've never liked any cat, But Milo & Otis are kind of really cool" hehe)

I'll have a good think about the couch, I completely soaked it in enzime cleaner and plan to do a few more rounds of this - if this doesn't work then an intermediate solution will have to do.

I know many of the things that frustrate me are things I can train them over time- The peeing is the one that's really got me pulling my hair out!

As for the food, I will do some research. There is so much contradictory information out there! Thanks heaps for pointing that out

 

[carolina]

Hi miloanddotis

I can relate to you in quite a few levels here.... I too have Ragdolls.... I too travel a lot for work - averaging 3 weeks of the month..... And now unfortunately I am dealing with a spray problem with a new kitty. Oh, I see you feed some raw - I feed 100% raw

Anyways..... a few things..... I know what it is to travel for work - I do that and I do that a lot. I am now in a hotel room, will get home Friday, Monday I am off again through Thursday.
But IMHO this doesn't mean that the cats have to be alone.... Sure - you have to do the travelling and the job imposes that on you - it is your job, it is what pays the bills, your roof, your food, the cat food, the vet bills. BUT, IMHO the choice of leaving the cats alone is an entire different story.
Cheap? Nope. Worth it? Totally. IMHO it is more than worth it, it is necessary - for their well being and your well being.
Things happen and when they happen they happen fast. If there is no one there it can be a disaster.
To make matters worst, kittens can get in trouble in a second - trouble that you can't foresee sometimes.
I have had my cats rushed to the ER in the middle of the night by me, and taken to the vet on a hurry by the sitter..... If there was no one there, I can't imagine the trouble.
Cats can get sick by not eating in just a few days..... Kittens can get very sick very quickly - those three days might not seem a long time when all is well, but if something goes wrong it is a LONG time for things to become very bad.

I have 2 sitters and one extra I can call if I need a back up. One full time, one I can call on a snap, and a thir one.
Certainly you don't need to do what I do, but because I feed 100% raw, 3 meals a day, I just have a live-in sitter. She sleeps in there when I am away, feeding the moring meal, an afternoon meal and a late night meal. Their routine doesn't change. The stress is minimized.
Does it cost me? Yep - a pretty penny. But it keeps me sane on the road, it keeps my house safe, and it keeps my cats, my family, safe - works for me.

This current sitter is a TCS member - I put an add here, and she just happens to live really close to me - she is great.

The other ones are my vet techs and awesome too.

Vet Techs are the way to go IMHO - they are trained and know what to do in case of an emergency. If it is one that works with your vet, she can just fetch the kitty to your vet in case of a problem.
They will go to your house, get your mail if you need to , clean the boxes, give meds if they need meds, feed them, and give them love.
They will get to know them enough to know their behavior.
YOU will know they are well and be more relaxed while in the road. I don't know, but I couldn't do it not knowing if my babies are well or not.

On the nutrition level, on the raw!! :bigthumb: Science Diet is not the best as the vets tell you though - just know that - it IS expensive, but it is not good food.......
I am also curious - what is this additive on the raw food you are talking about that attacks cats' brains? Just curious and I know...... off topic!

Anyways, Good luck to you and your babies!!

 

[miloandotis]

Thanks Carolina. The travel is not so frequent, but every now and then we get a month where we need to be interstate a bit.

Some of these at home services are things I haven't been aware of! Thank you

Also I'll look more thoroughly into Science Diet and other foods. It took a little while to get the cats into the raw food but now they love it!

As for the additive, let me get back to you on that. I'm at work right now, but I have it written down at home, hopefully still with my cats files. my vet was very strictly against raw food for kittens if they contained these additives as it affects brain development. Not as bad for fully grown cats, but not something I'd want them to eat!

 

[carolina]

Thanks Carolina. The travel is not so frequent, but every now and then we get a month where we need to be interstate a bit.

Some of these at home services are things I haven't been aware of! Thank you

Also I'll look more thoroughly into Science Diet and other foods. It took a little while to get the cats into the raw food but now they love it!

As for the additive, let me get back to you on that. I'm at work right now, but I have it written down at home, hopefully still with my cats files. my vet was very strictly against raw food for kittens if they contained these additives as it affects brain development. Not as bad for fully grown cats, but not something I'd want them to eat!

Hum..... Sounds typical of vets and raw food and Science diet , just so you know - vets here are more often than not very anti-raw........ and very-pro SD......... because of the reasons mentioned previously in this thread (Hills actually sponsors their "nutritional" education........ the very little training they have at school)
I am interested on this additive though, I have not heard about it..... :dk: Doesn't apply to me as I feed homemade, but maybe it is something others should be aware :nod:
Neither here nor there, this is not a raw thread - but we do have a nutrition forum if you want to check out, which includes a raw forum - both are excellent

 

[carolina]

Thanks Carolina. The travel is not so frequent, but every now and then we get a month where we need to be interstate a bit.

Some of these at home services are things I haven't been aware of! Thank you

Oh, absolutely! Ask your vet techs! They often do that to complement their incomes and like I said, they are excellent choices IMHO. Trained and very compassionate.
You can ask your vet to recommend which tech HE/SHE recommends - that's how I found one of mine, and she is top-notch!

 

[tammyp]

Hey there,  I'll be interested in that additive too...!

The only one I can think of which definately applies in Australia - although I'm sure it's used world wide - are the sulphite family of preservatives.  Thankfully human grade food has to have this labelled.  Pet grade food doesn't, and its use is rampant.  I've also heard it is obligatory in the pet food Kangaroo - the carcasses get separated into two piles (human/pet) and then the pet ones are treated - so the 'manufacturer' can actually not even be aware its in the 'food' as they didn't put it there.  As far as I know, this isn't something that directly/primarily affects the brain though, (unless we call the brain the central nervous system, which obviously it forms a major part)?  It will kill your cat over time as it destroys thiamine, and will destroy it in other 'clean' food sources if the 'contaminated' source has already been consumed - ie, within the animal after ingestion.  Thiamine deficiency affects the central nervous system and cats (and dogs) lose ability to lift their heads and walk, and will cause death.

I'll be checking back for the name of that additive you know about