Multiple vet trips, conflicting advice from breeder... at my wits end. One year old cat's unresolved

[avangelava]

Hello!

First off thanks so much for clicking on my thread, I realize inappropriate urination is likely the #1 issue posted about in this section. I'm just really running out of places to turn... just a morale boost would help...

Long version:
I adopted two ragdoll kittens in September 2013, they are both over one year old now. All was smooth sailing until June of 2013 when Maya began urinating all over the house... it was nearly always in small quantities and very frequently. Brought her to the vet, figured it was bacteria, very dark urine. Put her on antibiotics. Fast forward, antibiotics seem to be working (yay) until they're not. Repeat visit to the vets, this time with a full urinalysis sent to the labs. Three weeks later, no bacteria, but there are signs of crystals... okay... they then advise to switch her to a Science Diet Urinary + Stress formula, once we use up the bag bring her in for a check-up. During this month she continued to urinate periodically, though it was in larger quantities and much better colored.

I admit I was quite frustrated by this time, quite a few months had passed and her favorite place to urinate became my bed while I slept in it... There are only so many times you can wake up to wet feet/legs before it wears on you. She also gets very stressed and will claw at a door until it is visibly damaged if I try to keep her in another room. SO, I thought it couldn't hurt to contact her breeder for advice. She went on to tell me that the vets were just wringing me dry for money doing repeated urinalysis to her (referencing how terrible catheters are even after I explained that wasn't the technique they used to extract it). That it was a bacterial infection to begin with, that it just hadn't been resolved because they didn't use the right kind of antibiotics, and that I shouldn't bring her to the vets again. Just give more antibiotics.

So, as I fed the fancy vet formula I was also giving her antibiotics. Again, she was improving. And this is about where I am at right now, though she is not on antibiotics at this time. I feel like I am in the middle of a battle between vet and breeder. Both scoff at the actions of the other and insist that they are in the right, to disregard the other. I feel like they care more about proving the other wrong and making a buck than the actual well-being of my animals! Here are some examples of the drastic discrepancies in their approaches:

Breeder says to feed Purina dry, its always worked for her cats and they live to their upper teens. That canned food can give cats all kinds of food-born diseases. Vet says to feed canned food, obligate carnivores need wet meals to get their fluid intake.

Breeder says to take away water before bed, her bedtime accidents are simply because she is struggling to hold it in when she relaxes in bed with me. If her bladder is empty it won't be an issue. Vet says to have multiple sources of water throughout the house and always have them filled and clean, 24/7 availability.

Breeder says to not take them to the vets without contacting her first, ragdolls are delicate and need special care. Don't expose them to undue stress. They're sensitive to everything including changes in weather. That their tests are redundant and meant to bring in a profit for the vet more than help my pet. Vet says to bring in for regular check-ups and tests. Worth the stress, breeder is the uninformed one.


Short version:
Vets treatments not working, turned to breeder for more input. Scolded for subjecting her to unnecessary stress. Try breeder's suggestions. Months later and she is still not 100%, though improved. What do I do now?.....

I have her vet records if you want all of the nitty gritty details of her urinalysis results, as well as the kinds of food and antibacs we've given her. If that information would help at all...

THANKS FOR READING!!!

Angela

 

[avangelava]

And of course right after I hit submit I notice I have a date wrong. She started having issues June of 2014 not 2013! She wasn't even born until July 2013... haha

 

[equestrian06]

Did you use any probiotics after the antibiotics? That can cause bacterial overgrowth issues of its own (bad bacterial grow faster than good ones and overpopulate the balance easily). Most vets never mention these so it's pretty commonly missed.

 

[ritz]

I second the suggestion about probiotics.
Many threads about probiotics http://www.thecatsite.com/newsearch...=all&containingforum[0]=4&type=all&advanced=1
here is one to get you started regarding kind and dose.
My human nutritionist (who has two cats) likes Jarrow brands in general. I personally use one marketed to pets because I was able to get it in a powder (versus capsule form). I sprinkle it on her food--she likes anything so has never not eaten it.

 

[momto3cats]

I agree with your vet on the canned food and water availability. Wet food is better for cats generally, especially if they have bladder problems. 

I also agree with the above posts on probiotics.

If your vet is not helping your cat as much as you'd like, it's always okay to try getting a second opinion, or a third if necessary. The kind of problems your cat has can be tricky to resolve, and having more people working on it may help.

 

[catpack]

I will chime in and agree 100% about canned food being the best thing to feed, especially to a cat that has urinary issues. I 100% disagree with the breeder about feeding dry Purina only and about withholding water at night.

Did you put her back on antibiotics under the supervision of your vet or at the advice of the breeder? You have to be very careful about which antibiotic to use and the duration because the cat an become antibiotic resistant. You certainly do not want this.

If the culture did not grown any bacteria, I would agree with the vet that an antibiotic is not needed.

Probiotics never hurt.

Were there *any* changes made in June? Chronic cystitis can be triggered by stress. Did you move, get new furniture, change cat food, get new cat furniture, buy new litter boxes, change litter...anything?

Have you tried adding some Feliway diffusers in the house? I would put one in each room of the house that your cat spends time in (2 if it is a large den/family area.)

 

[AbbysMom]

First off, I've never dealt with urinary issues with a cat, but I 100% agree with the vet about the wet food and giving water. A few of the statements from the breeder sound odd to me. Rag dolls are a fairly popular breed and would think that all vets would have experience with them. While many purebreds do have some illnesses and personality traits that are more common for their breed, to a certain extent a cat is a cat and treatment would be similar.

As others have mentioned, it never hurts to get a second opinion from another vet. . I did this once and it only enforced to me how awesome my vet is. :lol3:

Good luck. I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon.

 

[rlavach]

I can't say who is right, but I've had 2 cats with urinary issues and seen 4 different vets. In the end, feeding canned only & having almost a dozen water bowls around the house is what's helping. Antibiotics don't help mine. You can find lots of great info on here or elsewhere regarding the importance of canned v dry cat food. I just learned this recently. Honestly, the idea of taking a water bowl away at night sounds really silly & counterproductive. From what I understand, increasing water intake is critically important in cats with urinary issues.

 

[avangelava]

Hello everyone, thank you so much for your replies!

I appreciate the suggestion of probiotics. I actually researched and purchased some along with coconut oil and Echinacea drops when I adopted the two of them at the suggestion of their breeder. I mixed the probiotic powder and echinacea into their water with a whisk following her directions, and mixed the coconut oil with their food. As time went on I admit I got a little less vigilant with using the three of them, but I really like the idea of slowly introducing that back into their diets!

Regarding getting input from another vet, that has been a consideration of mine for awhile now. My main concern is just having to repeat tests and a new vet having to start from scratch with her. Her current vet has all of her medical history available (granted there isn't much yet!). Their current vet is satisfactory, most of my doubts about them crop up when I seek advice from the breeder. They're also quite light and routine about the issue which I can understand.. its their career, probably see lots of kitties like Maya, but I'm fairly concerned given that my first cat passed away due to sudden kidney failure. Its a sensitive topic and something I really want to prevent in any way I can from occurring again.

Where their diet is concerned, I also thought it was a little unusual for their breeder to be so vehement about dry food, and of a brand like Purina as well which has a fair amount of filler material. When I first adopted the girls I did an obsessive amount of research on the healthiest foods I could feed them, I decided on canned at that time. So I'd been giving half a can of wet, with a little bit of dry food and some water right in the dish as well for most meals. They LOVE it. I'm planning to get cans of the veterinary formula as well.

I've also stayed in the vets camp as far as water availability. I agree the breeder's advice sounded a little counter-intuitive considering my research on urinary issues advised to increase water intake. I have a number of ceramic bowls of water around our home, as well as a stainless steel fountain in my room where they spend most of their time. As a side, any tips on cleaning the fountain? We have well water and it gets hard water deposits on it with time that are very difficult to get off...

The second round of antibiotics was at the advice of their breeder, I was apprehensive, but also frustrated that I couldn't do more than feed her the vet's food. So I decided to try it. It definitely helped for a good amount of time afterwards but then came back. I'm really hoping the probiotics will help to keep that from happening *crossing fingers* prevention is better than treatment right?

There was also a definite change in her world at that time. I had gone from being home nearly 24/7 to only once every couple days. I live with my parents and they were looking after the both of them in addition to our third cat Boomer while this was happening. I started spending a lot more time at home after her problems arose to take care of her but I'm certain that change had something to do with the beginning of this. I have a concern about a move coming up that may add to her stress again soon. I am planning on moving into a duplex with two friends before the year is out. Really hoping to get this resolved completely and find ways to help her cope with the changes during this transition. She and Iris will be relocating with me, and it'll be their first new place since adoption.

I have looked into Feliway as well as Spirit Essences by Jackson Galaxy. I will be purchasing the diffusers or something similar very soon to help not only with her current stressors but also with the move when that begins. I really want nothing more than for them both to be the happiest healthiest kitties they can be! Thank you everyone for your input <3 you've helped confirm my thoughts about the breeder vs vet situation and made me feel better about my course in the coming weeks!

 

[bonepicker]

Well water could he part of the problem. Can you try purified drinking water and grain free canned food only.

 

[avangelava]

Bonepicker, that is definitely something I can do changing the water in their bowls right now, and its meal time too! Yay Wellness Core canned thanks!

 

[bonepicker]

Let us know if anything changes

 

[bonepicker]

Has she been checked for crystals or bladder stones, dry food makes this worse! Also after the wellness core is gone, try a carrageenan free grain free food. Carrageenan can have any inflammatory affect. Also one litter box per cat per floor plus one extra. Clean daily and have you changed litter at all or the type of litterbox or the placement of the box? All of these things can trigger this behavior! Make sure you clean it up really good so she no longer smells it!

 

[jiazzi]

This is tough as the vet is more accurate than the breeder imho but if I went w/ the vet's advice alone and stuck w/ the prescription diet, then it wouldn't address the more systemic cause of health issues: diet.  I have a purebred ragdoll who had to get struvite bladder stones surgically removed and had diabetes for 1 month before going into remission... so this is near and dear to me!  

While my breeder was extremely well versed in breeding the line and showing many ragdolls that won awards (mine is a grand master champion!), I don't think feline nutrition was her area of expertise as she also recommended dry without any emphasis on wet food.  After everything that my Tyler has gone through with his health issues, turns out that almost all were caused by the fact that he's been on [expensive] dry food... Honestly, if there is a litmus test for determining whether someone has some understanding of feline health, they would not recommend dry food...

It is very surprising that the breeder would recommend taking the water bowl away when your ragdoll has urinary health issues and even more so given that she's strongly encouraging dry food.  This tells me right away that this particular breeder really isn't the right person to go to about urinary tract health and diet... There is a great article on urinary tract diseases and how a wet food diet is linked to disease prevention by a very well respected vet:

Always keep in mind that water flowing through the urinary tract system is the  most important factor in keeping it healthy.  That said, please do not make the mistake that so many people make when they state "but my cat drinks plenty of water!" -Dr. Pierson: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

Yes, keep the litter box clean as much as possible so it doesn't inhibit kitty from holding the urine and exacerbating the creation of crystals.  The prescription urinary food is not necessarily the best thing either as it is more acidic than necessary (leading to greater risk for oxalate crystals).  

 

[chromium blues]

Have you tried anything like Feliway for stress reduction?

 

[goholistic]

I just wanted to say that I agree with what everyone is saying and I agree with the vet. If it is, in fact, something like cystitis, then it can be a real bugger to control, but a moisture-rich diet and eliminating stress are important. I see you are already looking into Feliway and Spirit Essences. There's also Bach's Rescue Remedy for Pets (the alcohol-free version) for stressful times. How is her urine pH? Withholding water seems like a really silly thing to suggest (I'm being nice with my adjectives). 

  Are there any holistic vets in your area? If so, they may have some additional ideas on how to treat these issues. Perhaps natural remedies that could be used in tandem with what you are already doing.