Meet Zoe - questions on high blood test results

[FeebysOwner]

The biggest issue with the renal prescription foods is that they are still made based on the old idea that less protein is better for CKD cats. Cats, as they age, need more protein, not less, to help compensate for muscle mass loss that is very common among older cats. - CKD or not. There is a section about this on Tanya's web site, take another look at it specifically.

I have also heard that a lot of cats just don't like the prescription foods, or if they initially eat it they get tired of it very quickly. Maybe split her food between this food and others that have more protein? Personally speaking, you'd be better off feeding Zoe good canned food and when her phosphorus numbers increase to the point that matches the guidelines on Tanya's web site, ask your vet about a phosphorus binder. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Diet and Nutrition Overview (felinecrf.org). This section also includes a list of foods with lower phosphorus that you might be able to consider.

 

[TriciaH]

Hi Feebys, do you think I should go off Tanya's list for canned food? I've been feeding her Crave, which she likes. It's higher protein, but I think high phosphorous too. The canned food is a much longer project in switching her. I found an article that talks about how to do it. It's my understanding that when it comes to this stuff, getting her to eat is top priority. Thanks for pointing to me to Tanya's site regarding protein. I'll check it out.

This is so hard. I know it'll eventually get better. And I feel like it'll feel easier if I can formulate a game plan and get going on it. I was supposed to talk to my regular vet last night but she didn't call.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi Feebys, do you think I should go off Tanya's list for canned food? I've been feeding her Crave, which she likes. It's higher protein, but I think high phosphorous too. The canned food is a much longer project in switching her. I found an article that talks about how to do it. It's my understanding that when it comes to this stuff, getting her to eat is top priority. Thanks for pointing to me to Tanya's site regarding protein. I'll check it out.

This is so hard. I know it'll eventually get better. And I feel like it'll feel easier if I can formulate a game plan and get going on it. I was supposed to talk to my regular vet last night but she didn't call.

Try the renal foods and see if she will eat them at least as part of her diet. Having renal food as just a small part of her diet is still helpful, while also allowing you to feed her some higher protein food too - and stuff that she likes. The rest of her food can be whatever she likes to eat, while you see if you can get some lower phosphorus foods listed on Tanya's web site to test. Transition as you can, and as slowly as you need to. Feeby is still on all of her 'regular' food because there is no way she will eat the renal foods.

You can ask your vet about a phosphorus binder, which can be used in conjunction with non-prescription foods if Zoe will not eat the renal care foods. Zoe's phos level might be high enough to get the vet to agree with this approach, which could lessen your concerns about getting her on renal foods. There is a section on this subject too - Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease -All About Phosphorus Binders (felinecrf.org)

The other thing to push with the vet is Zoe's ALT number, and if there are other tests to help identify a cause, or meds to help lower it. Ask the vet about re-testing too - if the blood was poorly handled, it can result in high ALT, lower creatinine, among other altered results. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Ranges for and Factors Affecting Test Results (felinecrf.org).

I know it is hard. I have been to Tanya's web site a gazillion times and will likely be there that many more times in the near future. And, I have changed gears in mid-stream with a plan for Feeby - and, sadly it will probably happen again as I continue to learn more information! So, while it is good to formulate a plan, it is also very good to realize - and not be disturbed - that you might have to go to a Plan B, Plan C, etc. That just means you are evolving through the process - and, it is an evolution to be sure!

Sorry for the long post.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I've had three kidney cats to date, and none of them would eat the prescription kidney diet. Our Vet said not to worry about it, that the most important thing was that they eat, period. I worked my way down the list on Tanya's website (canned foods), starting with the ones with the lowest amount of phosphorus and least amount of carbs too, because I just couldn't fathom starting to feed carb filled food. I bought dozens of different foods to try,and some were a hit and others weren't. And in the end, some were extremely high in phos because I'd worked my way all the way to the bottom of the list. Our Vet still said not to worry about it because since the ate a variety of foods from the list, some low in phos and some high, it all balanced out. None of mine ever even needed phosphorus binders, but every cat is different there.

 

[TriciaH]

Hey everyone! So the vet prescribed Royal Canin, as that's all she had on hand and I wanted to get started. I was originally feeding Zoe Crave, high protein, high phos. She loves it. I managed to get her switched over to Royal Canin, and now she's throwing up every night. Every morning I find a pile of throw-up that's all food. She doesn't do it during the day. I heard this could be due to acid reflux, but she never did this on Crave, which is grain-free. So I ordered the Blue Buffalo renal r/x that's grain-free. Fingers crossed for that. I really want to get her to canned food. But she won't eat it, she just licks around it. I'm really really wanting to switch her. I read this article and am going to try: https://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf.

I'm worried about the lack of protein vs. the high phos dilemma. I'll go back to Tanya's site and read that specific section.

I have to say, last night I got sucked into the "research of food" world and spent all night reading and getting increasingly frustrated and sad. I don't know if I should give her the Crave she loves until the new food comes or what. I don't want to give her food that makes her sick and she doesn't want it either! So I guess the Crave. I feel like I'm giving a child with diabetes candy and McDonald's. It just feels terrible.

Zoe seems skinnier than before we switched the food. It could be the food or her progressing in ckd, I dunno. She'll get another set of bloodwork in a few weeks.

 

[TriciaH]

I meant to add, she does like Merrick Ltd Ingredient Chicken. I think that's lower in phos. but am not sure. I can't find this info anywhere on the webs for Crave/Merrick. It's really aggravating.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I meant to add, she does like Merrick Ltd Ingredient Chicken. I think that's lower in phos. but am not sure. I can't find this info anywhere on the webs for Crave/Merrick. It's really aggravating.

Your best bet is to reach out directly to the companies and ask for the phosphorus level. So far, whenever I have done this, the companies have been very responsive. If the current protein information you have found on these items is on a 'guaranteed analysis basis' - ask for them to provide not only the phosphorus but the protein as well on a 'dry matter basis' instead. It seems these numbers are a bit more accurate and easier to use for comparison.

However, Merrick LID chicken is listed on Tanya's web site food chart and reflects 1.9 phosphorus and 42.6 for protein on a dry matter basis. The information is dated from 2019 but should still be good unless they have changed the composition of their food. 1.9 isn't all that low. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease- Canned Food Data USA (felinecrf.org)

Tbh, I feed Feeby foods that are most certainly on the higher end with phosphorus - because that is what she will eat. After her next blood work, if her phosphorus level has increased, I will push for a phosphorus binder. I would rather go that route than to see her decrease her food intake because I am trying to force her to eat low phos foods.

 

[TriciaH]

Hi Feebys. So this weekend she's eating her old food as a sort of test. I can't find any info on that brand so I emailed them (Crave Indoor Cat Food).

She threw up on the bed at 3am this morning. I don't think it was a full stomach of food though, like it has been in the past. I'm trying to see if it's the grain that's doing it or something else. The doc said acids sometimes cause this and I can give her 1/4 of Pepcid. I'd like to get her healthy though and not on more meds.

The Blue Buffalo r/x grain free was the best and almost only kind I could find. I ordered it via Amazon but it's waiting on the vet's approval to ship! agh!

 

[TriciaH]

Hey! Update. I switched her to a sample I had on hand, Hill's Science Diet r/x (dry food). She loves it!!! And, I slipped her 1/4 of a Pepcid pill per the vet along with her high BP meds last night. First morning in a long time with no throw up on the blankets!! Win!!!

I think that because she was hurling every night she wasn't absorbing/digesting the food and perhaps getting skinnier. I am so very hopeful that with pepcid and a food she likes she can get better. Next steps are to slowly switch her to wet food. Yay!!

 

[Raul-7]

Hey! Update. I switched her to a sample I had on hand, Hill's Science Diet r/x (dry food). She loves it!!! And, I slipped her 1/4 of a Pepcid pill per the vet along with her high BP meds last night. First morning in a long time with no throw up on the blankets!! Win!!!

I think that because she was hurling every night she wasn't absorbing/digesting the food and perhaps getting skinnier. I am so very hopeful that with pepcid and a food she likes she can get better. Next steps are to slowly switch her to wet food. Yay!!

1) Dry food is going to make the issue worse, not better with any cat illness - but especially kidney disease.
2) Hills, Purina, Royal Canin, etc. fill their 'prescription' diets with carbohydrates, soy, corn, by-products, etc. - basically the food is trash in a bag/can. Get her Tiki Cat, Weruva, or any high quality wet food. You can add CaCO3 to bind the phosphate.

 

[TriciaH]

1) Dry food is going to make the issue worse, not better with any cat illness - but especially kidney disease.
2) Hills, Purina, Royal Canin, etc. fill their 'prescription' diets with carbohydrates, soy, corn, by-products, etc. - basically the food is trash in a bag/can. Get her Tiki Cat, Weruva, or any high quality wet food. You can add CaCO3 to bind the phosphate.

Well, as I stated, my plan is to try to move her to wet food. The "trash in a bag" is all I have right now. It seems to work for millions of others. While I understand the opinion is that Tiki, Weruva and the like are often highly regarded, I'm not sure that's a fact. In any case, thanks so much for your post.