Meaning of These Behaviors

[calicosrspecial]

Bronty,

Sorry about the delayed response. Thank you for that information.

Caspers Human post is spot on. It is a lot of art and not as much science as one would hope.

What you have described in your most recent post is pretty normal and there are positives in how they interact.

Eating together is great. If you can keep trying with that that would be great. We always want to associate the other cat with good things like play and food.

Great that you will continue with play and feed. I wish the resident cat would play but if he can watch kitten play that will help.

The fact he freezes when she is near just tells me he is a bit leery and does not want to be "prey". It is great he holds his own and doesn't run or flee like prey would,  I like that he kept wanting to go higher than her. The growling is normal, he is just saying "don't try anything" it tells me he is more confident than I feared. LOVE the greeting and rolling around on the floor through the screen. And I love the blinking.

Great that kitten was raised by her mom. Were their other kittens as well? They learn social skills while being raised. It sounds like she is just a normal kitten, playful. They know the difference between a playful swat or nip and something worse. I think it sounds like her actions are playful. She runs through the house back and forth, normal kitten stuff, a lot of energy. My new 3 yr old feral is doing that now. The others are adjusting to it since it is different for them. It is just them wanting to play.

So I think you are closer than you think. It is an adjustment for the resident cat, he is accustomed to living in a certain way and this new ball of energy comes in (which will be a positive for him).

It is tough to know when the time is right to get them together.  I would try to get the kitten to play in front of resident cat, get them to eat near each other, do some site and scent swapping and then use your best judgement on getting them together. When you do get them together again make sure it is in an area that offers multiple exit routes.  If it starts to get uncomfortable (staring or stalking etc or you see one of the cats getting tense with ears going back, tail moving rapidly, tail getting big, growling etc) distract the kitten with play.  It should distract the kitten and allow the resident cat to feel less threatened.  Be ready with a blanket if the swatting etc turns into a fight (I am guessing it will not but be ready). And try to stay as calm as possible, I truly believe cats can sense our energy and if they sense fear they can then start fearing and get defensive. A stern "No" in a confident voice can help.

I don't think they are that far apart judging by what you wrote. Caspers Human really is spot on with her post about how to handle the "negotiations" that all cats have to go through.

The vast majority of cats do not want to hurt another cat from my experience. I take care of a colony of ferals and have introduced numerous cats into our home. They tend to know how to interact and if one gets too "pushy" the other one tells them they don't like it and the "pushy" one realizes it is best to be more reserved in interacting. But the cat telling the pushing one not to do whatever they don't like usually doesn't hurt the other one, just a swat or a growl etc. It looks worse than what it is but that is how they establish the "rules".

I think you are doing all the right things and I am very confident that it will work. I know it is a bit scary to get them together and to see how they "negotiate" but that is how it is. Just keep up the play feed, height and if your resident cat can watch and realize the kitten does not want to hurt him things should go well.

Let us know how things go. Thank you for doing all your are doing and saving another life.

 

[Caspers Human]

I used to have two cats:  "Spike" and "Jerry."

Spike was a big, twenty pound cat.  He wasn't fat, per se.  He was just a big cat.  Spike was the "resident" cat.

Jerry was the "new" cat.  He was still a kitten when he was introduced to Spike. He weighed a bit less than ten pounds. Jerry was just a little guy.  Spike outweighed Jerry by a factor of 2-to-1.

Jerry was the young whippersnapper and Spike was the old man.  Spike would sit and supervise goings on while Jerry was curious and energetic.  Jerry was full of piss and vinegar.  He would often come by and attack Spike.  Spike would wrestle with Jerry but Spike got tired of Jerry's shenanigins pretty quickly.  They would race around the house, swatting and caterwauling, until Spike got fed up.  (This often happened at 3:00 a.m.)

When Spike got fed up, he would knock Jerry down and sit on him!

Since Spike was twice Jerry's size, it put an end to things, pretty quickly.

It wasn't long before Jerry learned the rules:  Don't get out of hand or else Spike will sit on you!

It was funny to watch the two cats go at it and, after a while, you could almost predict when Jerry was about to get sat-upon!

In the end, Jerry and Spike came to terms.  Jerry knew when it was okay to play.  Spike would give fair warning when he was getting fed up and Jerry knew when to back off.

If us humans had stepped in, I don't think Spike and Jerry would have come to such an understanding.

 

[bronty]

Tonight ... 2 1/2 hours together

Played a lot and kitten would come to the resident and go away and play, come back to the resident and then go away and play. Bubbles and play play play.

At one point the kitten ran and charged the resident cat, the resident cat did not react, just sat there! I am so proud of him!

Resident mostly tried to avoid her and leave when he felt he could. He moved more than I've seen him with her before. At one point he came back into the room that she was in.

His favorite place to be during the 2 1/2 hours was in the closet of the master bedroom. Kitten sat under the bed and watched him a lot. At one point (a short time), resident cat was laying on floor with his tummy eposed - I was shocked!!!

There was blinking, laying on floor, staring (not good!), etc.

At the very end resident cat went under bed in another room and kitten followed him. No sound for a minute, I was terrified. Then I used a toy to get her out from under the bed & stopped it for the night. Ahhh.

I'm really happy with tonight. Going to repeat again tomorrow. Is it good to just let it go on as long as possible or give them breaks? (if things are going well, I guess just keep going)

Thanks for the Spike story - love it! I will try to be brave in all of this and let them set their own boundaries.

 

[calicosrspecial]

AWESOME!!!! This is GREAT!!

A LOT of positives.  Kitten found play more interesting than resident cat. Resident cat didn't respond to the charge. Resident cat came back into the room where kitten was. Resident cat exposing his tummy. Blinking, laying on the floor. 

I am not too worried about the staring. Especially as it didn't escalate into anything.  If you see staring distract if possible. 

Does resident cat spend time in the closet usually? I would like to see him out in the open and up high if possible. But it is a process and there are a LOT MORE POSITIVES than anything else.

I am extremely happy with how things went. You did an AMAZING job with them!!

The fact that the resident cat went under the bed and the kitten followed and there was no altercation AND you got the kitten to come out for play is GREAT. This is good for a couple of reasons, resident cat knows that the kitten isn't going to harm him and will leave him alone and the kitten finds play more interesting than bothering/intimidating/pushing for play with the resident cat. WONDERFUL.

To your question, I would keep things going if at all possible. The reason is the more resident cat sees the kitten as non threatening the more comfortable he will be.

Kitten sounds like a great cat and we need to (and am) building resident cat's confidence. But we are well on the path to a happy family.

Great job!!

 

[bronty]

The resident cat does not usually go in that closet, in fact NEVER does.

Tonight he hung out on the bed mostly and the kitten approached him from behind trying to smell him. Resident just sat for awhile. I admit I was sitting to one side of resident so he was not completely exposed from behind. He still tries to go in another room when she is out. Kitten played for a long time before looking for him. They ate 2 treats together, and food. Still no physical contact, I'm hoping that comes soon with no aggression.

Thanks for all the support here, it is really helping me.

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are very welcome, you are doing a great job.

I was afraid of that (he never goes in that closet). But it is early in the process AND it sounds like last night went really well. I love that he was hanging out on the bed (up and out, great) AND they ate treats together and food. GREAT.  And kitten played a long time before looking for him. 

You are making great progress, just keep it up. The more resident cat sees this the more comfortable he will be.

There may be some bumps in the path (a swat, a hiss, etc) but I doubt it will escalate into anything of significance. I wouldn't worry too much about where you all are at now.  

We are here when you need us.

 

[bronty]

Thanks!!! 

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are welcome. Good luck.

 

[bronty]

Update and more questions!

Things have been going well so far. Yesterday the resident cat was laying on the floor blinking at the kitten, rolling around and I felt really good about things, that they were starting to "negotiate". Then, the kitten approached him as he was rolling around and "pawed" at him in play and resident cat did not like that. Today kitten chased resident cat around the house, tried to grab his tail, challenged him by looking right at him and charging, etc. etc.

So my question is do I just let them fight it out or keep distracting kitten. The resident is trying to "negotiate" But the kitten wants to "play" and he does NOT like it.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Resident cat's body language (blinking, rolling around) is GREAT. What did resident cat do when kitten pawed at resident cat? You say he didn't like being pawed at.

How did resident cat react to today's developments (chasing, trying to grab tail, challenge, charging)?

How was the body language of both during these incidents? How were their ears, how were their tails (fluffy, moving rapidly)?

I may change this view after hearing the answers to the questions above but if it seems like it will not turn violent then monitor, if it seems like it may turn violent then distract before it turns violent. It really is more art than science but I think you are getting to know how to handle things. Also, I know it is easier said than done but please try to stay calm during all of this. If it does turn violent throw a blanket on one of them.

I hope this helps, it is a process but I think you are on a good path. 

 

[bronty]

Resident cat got up and left the room when she pawed at him. When kitten grabbed at his tail he reacted by slightly moving but staying where he was, maybe a slight noise - not a hiss. When kitten charged at him, he wanted to get away from her into another room. I tried to distract her from rushing him. She likes to come at him from behind him and startle him.

It is VERY hard to let it keep going when I feel it could become a cat fight. I will try to watch their tails and ears better when it gets intense like that, I really didn't notice when it was happening.

I am guessing it will just be the same process for awhile as they figure things out. They just need time. "Negotiation" is when they both start rolling around and nuzzling, etc??? Or is there a set pattern of behaviors to negotiation?

Thank you for hanging with me through this - you are helping me much more than you probably realize!!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are very welcome. I am more than happy to try to help.

I think resident cat knows kitten just wants to play. Resident cat doesn't seem too threatened based on the reactions. The kitten is just being a kitten, precocious. 

It is always hard to judge without seeing it but I do't get a sense this is going to escalate into a cat fight. Now at some point the resident cat might put kitten in her place but it doesn't sound like it would turn into a violent encounter.

Cats do like to chase and charge etc. It seems silly to us but it is often play. Usually cats will give a warning and most cats will not resort to actually hurting another cat.

It will continue on for a while (I have cats that still do this after 6 years of it).

Negotiation is really the testing of where the line is. How can I swat, charge etc without going to far. And the one being swatted, chased, charged etc will give a swat and a hiss and say "ok, that is too much". I take care of a feral colony and one with wrestle the other to the ground, give a love bite and it looks terrible but in reality it is their way of playing. Then they'll be rubbing on each other and eating together.

When they start rolling around with the other one around that says "I trust you". A great sign. And nuzzling. Awesome. Of course, one can still get upset and swat but it is more like a slap rather than a dangerous move to serious escalation.  

Just continue with play, food, height and love. And play with them together if possible or with the other watching the play. And associate the other cat with good stuff, play, food, and things should work out fine. I actually think you are on a very good path and I don't here anything to cause me alarm. Just try to stay as calm as possible when they get into their actions as cats can take on our emotions (anxiety) and can act out more. Just try to be as confident and calm as possible and I think they will reflect that.

You are doing a great job, just keep it up. We'll be here if you need us.

 

[Caspers Human]

I think it's okay to just let them have it out unless they start actually hurting each other.

If they, for some reason, do start actually hurting each other, you'll likely know right away.

If that does happen, just use your "big voice" and shout, "Hey!  Cut it out!"  Stomp your feet on the floor if you need to.  Shouting is plenty punishment for most cats.  Nine times out of ten, it should send them scattering in different directions.  You shouldn't have to step in to physically separate them unless shouting and stomping doesn't work.

Just let them tussle until they learn each other's boundaries.  Once that happens, things should settle down on short order.  But, if you step in too frequently, you will interrupt the negotiation process and it will take a lot longer.

Besides, Kitty Wrestling Matches can often be "YouTube Gold!"     

 

[bronty]

Thank you Both for all the ideas and suggestions - I am following all of them and will keep at it.

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are very welcome. You are doing a great job. Thank you for caring so much about them.