Maple doesn't like Penelopy...

[donutte]

That's really an understatement. She despises her, and every time Penelopy walks by her, she'll start her black panther growl and hiss at her. Sometimes even bat at her with her paws. When she does that, Penelopy replies by doing the same. And then Maple freaks out and voids her bladder right where she lay.

She has had anxiety issues for awhile. She's on Prozac, has been for about a year for other issues. Vet would prefer to lower her dose, I'd rather not for fear of her hatred of Pea-Pea getting worse.

Any thoughts on what I can do? Feliway doesn't really work with her. She's almost 15 though, has very early stage CKD (asymptomatic). Last blood work things were looking pretty good and stable.

I just want Maple to be happy.

 

[moorspede]

I take it that the cats have been living together for a long time? When cats get older they just want to a quiet, easy life. Personally, I would separate them. 

 

[donutte]

I take it that the cats have been living together for a long time? When cats get older they just want to a quiet, easy life. Personally, I would separate them. 

If that was a feasible solution, I'd definitely already be doing it

Penelopy's been here a little over a year. Maple was never that fond of her, but Maple really isn't fond of anyone, lol. But about six months in, she just became a little black panther whenever Penelopy dared to enter her field of vision.

During the day, for the most part, there are no issues. Maple is in my bedroom most of the day. But she likes to sleep in the living room at night, and Penelopy is also out. And on more than one occasion, have awakened to a little roar from Maple. I'd come out, and look for both cats. Maple's in the chair she was in when I went to bed, and Penelopy is across the room, but in her field of vision.

 

[donutte]

Wasn't able to talk to the vet yesterday. I want to try to get her back on Prozac full time for awhile (maybe six months or more) and then taper it down. The way it happened I think has something to do with why it got so bad. She was on it for about six months, and then decided she didn't want it anymore. She's a big girl, who has anxiety issues, so you can't really force a pill down her throat or use a pill popper (kinda defeats the purpose of an anti-anxiety med when you make them anxious by giving it to them!). Her getting it after that was very hit or miss, so basically went from getting it every day to getting it maybe every three or four days. She would just refuse sometimes. Then I finally figured out a way she would take it.

Oh well. Hopefully can reach the vet today.

 

[cat nap]

@Donutte...Have you ever tried any of the 'Composure Treats' that some members have mentioned?


Though, I would definitely read the 'reviews' first, and side-effects, and ask your Vet about them, beforehand.

I'm wondering if Maple just lashes out, at times, because it's her way of 'warning' Penelopy not to come over and mess with her?

Since you mentioned that the Prozac, was stopped for awhile, or not consistent,then perhaps it is a rebound effect, too.

She may just have been feeling hyper alert, without the prozac.

Also, might be feeling a bit cranky, due to early stage of CKD, even if the numbers are good.

Does each cat have their favourite spots in the home?

Or do they switch to new places, often?

How does Maple act like with the boys? and dog?

 

[donutte]

Maple's always been a cranky butt, but not quite THIS bad. The lady that lives with us said this to describe her growl last night: "Maple's growls sound like they are from the bowels of the Earth." She's not exaggerating!

Composure! That's what I was trying to think of. I'll have to look into that. I did talk with the vet today and described what it's been like. The voiding of bladder started the day of her vet appointment last month, so had chalked it up to her being upset from that. But then it's happened a few times since then. Anyway, he agreed to just put her back on the dose we had her on to begin with, since she did well with that.

She is fine with the boys. She growls at them when they rub all over her at feeding time (they just get SO excited and happy and they want to rub all over the other cats, and Maple doesn't care for that), but not just for being in her field of vision. The dogs don't really faze her anymore. Penelopy though... Penelopy can be sleeping in a room, and Maple will enter it, see her, and just start growling.

I've been trying to do some bio-feedback type stuff, like praising Maple whenever Penelopy is in the room with her, and scratching her head. Of course, that would require me being in the room, which is often not the case. Especially in the middle of the night.

Oh, as far as favorite sleeping spots... pretty much all over. For all of them. Maple is generally in my bedroom during the day though, and in the living room at night. At some point in the middle of the night, she'll usually come back into my room. On occasion, at that point, she and Penelopy may bump heads. Let me say how great it is waking up to a growl that sounds like it's from the bowels of the earth :lol3:

 

[kittens mom]

Oh my. My husband was out back looking for whatever wild animal was snarling in the bushes behind our house a few years ago. Turned out to be a much smaller Mook making that noise. She is very territorial. I mean we thought we had a big wild animal out there. Hopefully Penelope doesn't respond in kind and Maple can keep her snarl on.

 

[donutte]

I'm sure she'll do it again tonight - I'll be sure to take video. Actually, I think I took video before, I'll have to look for it.

Sometimes, when they are both in the hallway, which means way too close to each other, Maple will swat at her. Then Penelopy will swat back, and that's when Maple gets on her back, having a hissy fit and voiding her bladder. I think it shocks Penelopy when she does that because she just stops and looks at Maple when she does that.

 

[cat nap]

Oh, the 'growls' from the 'bowels of the Earth' sound...is kind of unavoidable, then.

 

 

Like 'surround-sound,' ...I guess. (sorry, it's not funny, but the description is, though.)

I wonder, though, because Maple is almost 15, and a senior, if her hearing is going,...so she really does not know how loud she sounds?

Her vision might also be getting dimmer, so she just sees Penelopy as a 'moving something', ...though that would not explain 'growling' at her, on top of your bed.

The loud growls, howls and hisses, might just be how Maple always tries to communicate with Penelopy, then?

It sounds like Maple has always been top cat, and now Penelopy might be trying to play, or just defend herself in the hallway encounters, but Maple then does not want to engage, so she voids her bladder.

Maple, might also be wanting to go use the litterbox, or forgets to, at the times that Penelopy approaches her. Although, if it happens at every meeting, then it probably is stress responses.

I thought that Prozac, also makes the bladder want to relax, and go more often.

Do you find that Maple is using the litter box more, while on it?

(My previous two boy cats would also posture, growl, and hiss, ....every so often. And get into some scraps. But it was mostly just being loud, and posturing. No real fighting.

My present female cat, 1.5 yrs old, slaps her two brothers, whenever she feels like it. I think it might be for retaliation, from some rough playing, or chasing, ..which we don't always see.)

I hope that Penelopy can learn to leave Maple alone, when she gets into her 'bowels of the Earth' moods.

Maybe, praise both cats, when they simmer down, and stop their antics.

But yeah, in the middle of the night....I'd be a little bit ticked, and sleepy, to do anything but scold them. They probably would not listen, anyhow.

You might have to put out cat blankets, or cat beds for each of them, on top of your bed, or in your bedroom, ...so each has their own respective places to lay in, and not compete for the same bed.

 

 

[donutte]

Oh, they are never on my bed together. Maple doesn't go on my bed. She has 4-5 spots she primarily goes to: in my bedroom, she'll be on the back of the chaise, then later go down to the chair. Then in the late afternoon/early evening, she comes into the living room. She'll either go on the back of the loveseat, or on the little heat-reflecting pad that is on the seat. Sometimes, she moves over to the seat of the chair that is over by the window. Then at some point in the middle of the night, she comes back into my bedroom and gets in her chair (yep, HER chair). It's at that time that I usually will hear the growling.

I've wondered about her vision, just because she seems to be unsure a lot when jumping. Entirely possible her hearing is going, but it's not just the volume of her growl, but the depth of it.

 

[cat nap]

That is difficult then, since Maple seems to react 'over the top' when she sees Penelopy, but not do the same with the other animals.

I wonder if something may have happened between the two girls, perhaps a spat, that you did not see.

Or if Maple may have saw Penelopy at a very stressful time,...say immediately after a Vet visit, and is now always associating Penelopy with bad things.

Same goes for not being able to get to a litterbox in time, or voiding herself in front of Penelopy. This may cause Maple to always dislike Penelopy.

You mentioned that giving pills to Maple is difficult.

Perhaps compounding the meds, or transdermal meds may help, if they can be done this way. Though I think it is more expensive, so it might not be worth it, in the long run.

Here's an old thread that mentions it: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/167487/spraying-and-prozac

Trying 'pill pockets' might work, if Maple likes the taste of the treats.

I was going to suggest, that you look through your home, and always look at it from your cat's point-of-views, so that they always have escape routes, either high or low places to walk on, so as not to get 'stuck in a showdown' situation.

Except that it sounds like it's more a matter of Maple actually seeing Penelopy, and not always being 'trapped' or not able to leave.

Especially, since you mentioned that Maple does not even compete for your bed, or jump up.

That is more difficult, then, since I think you'll have to teach, coax, or distract Penelopy from approaching or engaging Maple.

The million dollar question is how.

If the Prozac helped before, hopefully it will help again.

I wonder if animals get withdrawal symptoms, too. That could be possible. (I had to quit coffee, and I was a tyrant for 2 weeks or more.)

Good luck @Donutte and Maple,...with the rest of your fur crew, too.