Mandarin's Herpes - Suggestions on Management?

[ladyhitchhiker]

So we're taking Mandarin in for his yearly. I have been trying the last few months to get him to take l-lysine. No success. There is not a way I can get it in him without him and I completely stressed. And here I thought I was such a good caretaker and he proves me wrong! I'm scared to push the issue with the l-lysine anyways, because it might make him flare up more? Not really sure what I'm doing with this whole herpes thing. Thought I had it under control. He used to just have one to two flareups a year, where the discharge would turn green, his eye would get irritated, and that was it. Get him some neo polydex and he was all good in about two weeks.

Any questions I should ask the vet on other options to try and get his flare-ups under control? The last four months have been rough. Just when it gets bad enough and I'm going to take him into the vet, it clears up. The discharge hasn't turned green, he doesn't sneeze or cough or have trouble breathing. I just really don't know what to do to keep it away so he's not blinky. There are no new stresses, and it's surprising but I thought for sure when I brought home Majel or when Linus passed away he would flare up, but no flare-ups then. But now the last few months when things have perhaps been more stressful for us but not for him - him no changes - he's having more flare-ups.

Boo cat fancy. My subscription and your particular article did not fill me with hope. It did scare me badly enough about future possible complications from herpes though. Like scarred tear ducts and perhaps also getting ulcers in his mouth like my Kazi. Shouldn't have checked the mail I guess, but maybe it's better to be prepared? Maybe not. I'm such a worrier.

I just wubba him so much, even if he has only really loved me the last two months.

 

[python]

My Poppy has that too. She's only had one flare-up in 10 years - which we're experiencing now.

She has an eye ulcer - and it's a nasty one. No other symptoms, no runny eyes, no sneezing...nothing. We had hoped she'd been scratched by one of the other cats but as it's taking longer to heal it looks like it is the Herpes virus.

Please don't think everything you read will happen to your cat. Like I said, this is Poppy's first flare-up in 10 years.

Please try not to worry too much.

 

[strange_wings]

What methods have you tried to get the l-lysine in him?

Use a pill cusher and add it to wet food, baby food, or water?
Did you try seeing if a pharmacy could specially compound it for you into a flavor your cat may tolerate?

And if all else fails did you ever try crushing it up, mixing it with a little water, and squirting it down his throat with an eye dropper?

A few moments of discomfort are about as stressful as the flare-up itself will be. And if you follow up with a treat and pettings, he could probably get used to it in time. It's just like giving a cat any other medicine they must have - mine absolutely hate the pink amoxi drops.. but in those cases it's either they deal with it or die of infection. After nine days I had one cat so used to getting his meds that he would hop up on the toilet, lean forward and open his mouth.

He's an odd one, though, I admit.

You can also try using feliway in the home and rescue remedy to help with stress.

 

[python]

Yes, Strange-Wings - I know where you're coming from...Poppy also has Metacalm at the moment - and she loves it. She laps it from the syringe then while I still have the syringe in my hand chases me round the room in the hope she'll get more

Hate to disappoint her, but tomorrow is the last day she'll be on the Metacalm.

 

[strange_wings]

Metacalm? Supplement type med? I would hope that and not Metacam - your cat would be a bit odd to like the taste of that.

Maybe you can keep the daily interaction... and her chasing you around the room for it, up with a treat instead if she's used to the med on a schedule?

Odd cats.
Routine helps, and ultimately lowers the stressfulness of an event. So I'm sure the OP's kitty could adjust with time.

 

[ladyhitchhiker]

I have the goo form of l-lysine. I tried just offering it to him. He's not interested. I've tried shooting it down his mouth with no success. It does not end up in his mouth no matter how I tried, so I tried mixing it with food. No success. Are there any eye-drop forms of l-lysine? Because for some reason he does well with eye drops. Not his favorite but after the first like two days when his eye's really irritated then after he's like "oh wait, this makes me feel better".

 

[strange_wings]

How gooey is the goo? Hairball remedy goo consistency? I've had luck getting that and bene-bac down kitties by putting it on my finger then smearing that on their tongues. As long as you don't think your kitty would chomp your finger in protest.

There's a trick to pilling and getting liquid (and gooey) meds down some cats.
FIrst, get med, get kitty (duh

), and sit on the floor with him. Sit with your knees slightly spread. You'll be backing kitty's butt up to here - your knees help hold him in place. If you think you'll need to rise up on your knees a little, cross your ankles - he can't back out under you, then.

Scuff kitty with one hand, lightly lift the cat's front end up. Mouth should open during this - insert...well whatever you're dosing with.

Lower kitty, rub throat gently to encourage swallowing. Release, give cuddles, praise, treats, etc.


You should give the l-lysine powder in wet food a try, though, before you declare defeat.

Go to the drug store, or walmart/kmart and look for the supplement. Flip over the bottles and read carefully. Avoid any containing propylene glycol (sp?). Go with a 250 or 500mg, as you can give more than that but probably don't want to give a high dose (1000mg) all the time. Get a simple pill crusher - if you can't find them ask a pharmacist to help you.
Plus, use the search function on here. Look for "l-lysine". Never underestimate the power of big old threads for providing great info and tips!

Also, supplements and vitamins all have a shelf life. If you've had the goo l-lysine for several months it may taste even worse if it's past it's shelf life.

 

[ladyhitchhiker]

Sorry, not to be rude, I'm just wanting to understand and do the ring thing.

How is force-feeding him his meds every day really going to break the cycle of his herpes if I keep stressing him?

As for treating him, he's a chomper and a scratcher and I've tried towelling him, I've tried hubby helping him, I've tried in the floor stuff and I end up with more on the floor and myself then I do anywhere near the cat. I've never had such a difficult patient! Why should I call him a patient? He makes me lose mine and he's NOT patient. Bleh... The goo I have is a thinner consistency than the hairball medicine. The hairbally medicine I just rub on him and he eats it eventually when he washes himself. This stuff just isn't sticky enough and runs off onto the floor. Unless, could I add it to something to make it sticky enough to stick to his fur so then he HAS to eat it? Just a thought. Brainstorming as I type.

 

[carolina]

Here is the L-Lysine in powder - it is 100% pure, and the best value you will find. It is also almost tasteless - all my cats are on it I mix it in their water right in the water fountain. It has 500mg per 1/4tsp.
My cats are finicky and they did not accept lysine from the pharmacy - crushed pills; they would not eat or drink the water with it. This one however, they have absolutely no problem.

Whenever they have a flare up (pretty much never after they started on L-Lysine), I mix it an extra 500 on their wet food making 1g/day.

Lots of people here use this brand with great acceptance.

Good luck!

 

[strange_wings]

^That depends on if the person shops online. As odd as it sounds... some people don't.

Though, if the OP is leery of it but can purchase it online, amazon has always been fairly prompt with their processing and shipping.

Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

Sorry, not to be rude, I'm just wanting to understand and do the ring thing.

How is force-feeding him his meds every day really going to break the cycle of his herpes if I keep stressing him?

If you could do it quickly enough, he gets used to the routine, and you give lots of good things after - it would be less stressful.

However, since he's a wild kitty by your accounts, finding a more passive method of sneaking this in would be safer. I don't want you getting injured at all.

Do you think you could try the feliway diffusers and rescue remedy suggestions, too? I have one kitty (not a herpes kitty just one that gets really stressed out over things and stress pees) that I find daily "nip session" with catnip seem to help her unwind and relax a little.
And if you're really open minded, and your cat would allow it, massaging him regularly (even just on the shoulders) would release good endorphins and help him relax. But this would help more to keep him de-stressed than to help the current issues.

 

[addiebee]

Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

I have the goo form of l-lysine. I tried just offering it to him. He's not interested. I've tried shooting it down his mouth with no success. It does not end up in his mouth no matter how I tried, so I tried mixing it with food. No success. Are there any eye-drop forms of l-lysine? Because for some reason he does well with eye drops. Not his favorite but after the first like two days when his eye's really irritated then after he's like "oh wait, this makes me feel better".

Hey - I put pure L-Lysine powder in my boys food b/c I have low grade herpes in my house - runny eyes, sometimes gooey eyes. These cats were pulled from a shelter at a time when the shelter had stopped vaxing against herpes, calici, distemper, etc.

You can get it on Amazon. NOW brand. a one pound bottle for 15 bucks. They just lap up the food. Otto (username on here) finally tried it that way with her Tolly and it worked like a charm.

ETA- I see Carolina had already chimed in. This is what I use now b/c all my cats are exposed and some level of symptoms.

Once we got past spring allergy season- it's been all good!

 

[ladyhitchhiker]

I guess I really just don't want to mess up all the brownie points I've received the last 2 months since he's finally accepted me with something that I'm not closer to sure will work. Mandarin wanted NOTHING to do with me since I brought him home from the shelter 6 years ago. It has been "Daddy Daddy Daddy LeAnn LeAnn LeAnn and Linus Linus Linus" until the last two months. But as selfishly as I want him to be my friend, I honestly want him healthier first. The L-lysine said it's supposed to be flavorless that I have, but since he wouldn't eat it, I'm like, "well why would I eat flavorless goo? Better add it to something yummy." So maybe try the powder? Not really sure. I'm just sick of him winking at me and looking at me like, "mommy I don't feel good." I wouldn't my eye being inflamed like his.

He doesn't eat wet food without barfing.
He likes pudding but milk on a regular basis + kitty tummy = barf. He can tolerate some tuna juice, and so I tried it in that. Nope.
I tried it in clam juice since it's SUPER cheap and I thought if he liked that I could live with that. Nope, doesn't even like the clam juice so now I have clam juice hanging out in my cupboard for nothing cuz there's nothing I know to cook with that.
He likes tomato soup but I'm not sure how good that is for him to have daily so I didn't try that. And venison well he loves venison but it's hard to get venison meat unless it's around hunting season, and my husband would throw an absolute fit if I brought home a whole freezer full of deer meat to try and get him to eat his medicine. I'm sure eventually he would be okay with it, but if Mandarin didn't go for it, then we're stuck with a whole freezer full of venison to eat which I'm not the biggest on and Wally gets sick of very quickly. Like he can eat it twice a year and that's good enough. He doesn't like the gritty texture.

Why does everything have to be so complicated?!?!?!?!?!

I was using feliways for a while when Majel and him were having problems adjusting. Perhaps I should go back to getting them for a while.

 

[stephanietx]

You're a yooper! The second one I've met today! How funny is that?

Now then, on to the Herpes thing. First of all, what are you feeding? It's best to feed herpes kitties grain-free food as the arginine in the grain can keep the herpes virus active.

Secondly, get the powdered form of lysine that Carolina gave the link to. Mix it in grain-free wet food (I feed Wellness CORE canned and Taste of the Wild canned). I add about a teaspoon of water to the canned food mixture and stir it up well. My girl never knows it's in there.

Third, have any type of green or yellow discharge cultured (cultured and sensitivity tested) to make sure you're not dealing with a secondary infection. The culture will tell you exactly what type of infection you're dealing with and the sensitivity test will tell you which medication will most effectively treat it.

Fourth, no steroids, steroid shots, or the FVCRP shot anymore. This is the shot that has the Rhino virus in it and may send your kitty into a flare up. Besides that, your kitty has a compromised immune system and shots really shouldn't be given to "unhealthy" cats.

Fifth, join the herpes Yahoo group, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/f...guid=353539644 . There are so many helpful and knowledgeable folks on the list.

Sixth, use Feliway plug ins to help reduce the stress, if you're not already using them.

 

[strange_wings]

Have you ever tried cat milk with him? or a lactose free milk (you could drink/cook with it, too) or even a goats milk? Baring that, always have it in his water.


ETA: I didn't even notice her location!
Were are you at in the UP? Carolina herself recently had a stay over at Iron Mountain, and I lived in St. Ignance for a while.

 

[ladyhitchhiker]

Say ya to da U P, eh?

I used to feed Mandarin Iams dry food because it was the ONLY thing that wouldn't make him barf. I made the switch this year to Purina Natural because it has MUCH more protein and more protein as my understanding is MUCH better for kitties. Can't quite get him to get down any wet food without barfing and he's one of those PICKY cats who barely eats anything other than the dry food. If only I could get him to take his medicine off of saltines.. or pringles.. Hmmmmm...

And from what I'm understanding you're telling me he should not get his vaccinations tomorrow as he is scheduled? And what does that mean to my life then? Does this mean I can't go volunteer at the animal shelter anymore for fear I may bring back some disease? I used to work at the vet's office and she said if I do volunteer work or work at the vet's office I should probably get my cats their shots twice a year until I diminish my contact with extraneous critters. So now I'm down to once a year because I really try to limit my contact with other animals as I don't want to bring any extra "bugs" home.

I have now joined the yahoo group and will work on getting more plug-ins.

And as for boarding, how am I supposed to board him if something comes up without him having any shots?

*brain overload*

 

[ladyhitchhiker]

I unfortunately with Linus's advanced tooth resorption during his last year tried basically every single canned food, every single pouched food, every form of cat milk, etc.,. to keep Linus eating. Anything Mandarin tried to share with Linus he would throw up.

P.S. No way! Iron Mountain? I live in the sister city of Kingsford!!!!!!!!!! Wowza!

Although I must mention that Mandarin DID like smart water - which is just regular water with some electrolytes. It's meant to be for humans but it gave Linus and Mandarin some extra energy during Linus's rough times.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

And from what I'm understanding you're telling me he should not get his vaccinations tomorrow as he is scheduled? And what does that mean to my life then? Does this mean I can't go volunteer at the animal shelter anymore for fear I may bring back some disease?

At least not yet, while he's in a big flare. Get him over that and then figure it out.

As for volunteering. When you worked at the vets office did you have scrubs? Do you still have them? Treat this situation the same as you did when you worked there. Don't transmit things between the shelter and home. This means take your shelter clothes off right when you get home, and when you put them on to leave - no last minute cat snuggling.

Whenever I've been around sick kitties or cats I'm unsure of, I've always taken my clothes off in the utility room - then hoped no one could see through the windows as I make my way to the bedroom.

Baring that a quick strip in the bathroom and tossing the clothes directly into the washer has worked. Wash up thoroughly.

Though you could always choose to work with the dogs instead.

I hope with a bit of brainstorming that a good routine, food and med wise, can be found for Mandarin. It doesn't sound like he's making this any easier for you.

 

[ladyhitchhiker]

So I can still bring him in his for yearly but wait until he's flared down for his shots?

I must confess that he usually would flare up after he got his shots, so this does make sense.

Yeah, I'm pretty strict about my precautions almost always - paranoia after so many puppies and kitties lost at the shelter in Mississippi I volunteered at for 2 years - but I'm sure I can buckle down.

So tomorrow should just be a kitty get better visit? Is that what everyone's thinking?

I really appreciate you guys taking time to help me with this.

And no, Mandarin never makes anything quite easy, but I still love him anyways. He's such a clown. He always makes me laugh, except when I know he's uncomfortable.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

So tomorrow should just be a kitty get better visit? Is that what everyone's thinking?

That sounds like the best plan since he's pretty sick atm.

Maybe your vet will have an idea we've not thought of so far. I would write down a list tonight of what you've tried with him and any other questions about getting the herpes flare up settled down.
..Besides, I think most vets like you to warn them a day or two in advance before breaking an appointment - picky vets will charge you for last minute cancellations.

Good luck tomorrow.

 

[stephanietx]

Correct. Just have him looked at for a check-up/well-kitty visit this time. Ask the vet to do the culture and sensitivity test on any discharge.

Personally, I would talk to the vet about not getting any shots. Rabies is required by law here, but my vet told me that since my girl has herpes, she would rather not give her the shot unless we have a rabies outbreak or we moved. She also told me that if we ever needed to give her the FVCRP shot, she'd order the individual shots for us so we didn't have to give her the rhino portion of the shot.