male cat defecating and urinating outside litter boxes

[maclan1]

first posting, so patience pls. we have two cats, both 8 years old. a female short-hair (black) and a male, long-hair--main coon type. recently male has taken to defecating outside litter box on a regular basis. in past there were periodic episodes. for short durations. now almost constant. urinating as well now outside box. happens in various areas of the house.

has been seen for urinary problems, and antibiotics tried. some success but resumed in 2 weeks. suggested food switch to Hills, CD/s. when problem restarted vet suggested worming. has been done. also prescibed mild sedative. problem continued and I felt vet was not responsive (provided limited feedback) switched to new animal hospital. also consulted by phone with senior vet in another city.

some suggestion that 'colitis' might be involved. vet has presribed some meds for this, apo-metronideazole. also amitriptylin as an anti-depressant. food switched suggested and now feeding MediCal--hi fibre. litter boxes changed and cleaned, fresh litter used, regularly. new boxes placed in different areas.

female cat is aggressive. this may be a factor. possibility she may have frightened male during toilet behavior. he is very mild-mannered. seperating and putting male in back bedroom at nights and for periods during the day.

pardon graphic descriptions but male's feces tend to be very long, varying in consistence at start from hard , thru softer to almost a 'cow-plop' at end of movement.

male only defecates every two days and urinates major amount once a day. appears (if one can tell) to be holding and then just lets go when control is impossible.

eating well and normal otherwise. in closed room, male is using litterbox more. but loose stool (cow plop type) outside the box on occasion. in past he used to cover urine and feces. does not do so in tray now.

would appreciate any help someone might have. a good cat and would like to help him.

thanks
mac

 

[donna]

Mac,

It could very well be that the female is the problem. Cats are very "private" animals. Cat boxes should be in places with no traffic. If the female is sabotaging him while he's in or as he comes out of the box, that could be the reason why he's going in other places. Do you have more than one cat box? You might want to try that. The rule of thumb is one box for every cat. I have 7 cats and 7 boxes. Good luck and keep us posted.

Donna

 

[Anne]

Welcome Mac (great first post

This is an interesting case. I'm thinking maybe there's a combinaiton of behavioral and medical problems?

You say that change of diets and medication has helped, at least temporarily which makes me think about some pain that he experiences while defecating. The aggressive cat probably stressed him a lot which doesn't help...

I understand that you do have two boxes. Can you please tell us which kind (covered or not) and where they are located. Also, which kind of litter you are using.

Some more details that might help: have you had both for 8 years? What was their relationship like over the years? Was there a change around the time this behavior started (in their relationship or some other change around the house)?

Last, but not least, has the vet checked for urinary tract problems? These may appear with time following the stress (unrelated to the underlying cause of the whole thing). I'm asking because you say the urinating outside the box is a relatively recent thing. Can the vet run tests for colitis to rule that one out?

I really hope we can help. This is not a nice situation and seems like you're doing the best you can to help the poor cat...

 

[maclan1]

donna and anne:
thank you for replies. appreciate.

in response to questions raised. we got the first cat, the female in january on 1993. the male followed in june that year. female did not accept inspite of trying to introduce as per the books. gradually some acceptance came from her but she is quick to hiss and swat. a pretty good cat outside of this guarded acceptance of the male. in past he has invited some of the responses. he is a playful character and often wants to play. she does not always respond in kind.

in respect to litter boxes, had two in a back bedroom. they were close together which in retrospect was probably self-defeating. have moved one to other side of room away from being adjacent. room is relatively quiet. also had a litter box in basement of house. male did use before but had stopped and was using ones upstairs. bought a covered box after this problem started. male looked in the first day but would not enter. took lid off and am using bottom in basement. neither cat visiting yet. with the two cat's separated at night now, and for times during the day, have moved a box into another bedroom for the female. this way the male can have back bedroom to himself with door closed. have used the same type of litter, clumpable-nonscented for eight years. clean daily. even more now.

spoke with pet store people today, who are trying to be helpful as well. they suggested a grain-based litter. am trying that in back room for the male in a new box. have tried to put in an even more sheltered area there.

spoke today with a lady suggested by pet store who runs a vacation place for cats and uses the grain based litter. she finds cats take to it well. she was very receptive to my concerns and helpful. discussed my male cat's behavior in some detail, and like you she feels may be related partially to anxiety and the female. also wonders about bowel related problems (colitis). had a similar cat with symptoms as I described.

she asked about any non-neutered male cat in the area. there are one or two that spray and meander about frequently. she wondered if there might be some displaced agression that my female is directing toward my male cat. interestingly, problem started this time when we open the doors and windows after a canadian winter. my male seems to panic when other male comes on veranda or peers in window. have taken steps to stop that as much as I can. at best he is a nervous fellow.

re: changes in the house? about 6 weeks ago we got some new furniture and an old couch was removed. cats never used that much for sleeping. have taken to the new couch. also a leather chair. male cat will crawl up in it with me. or sit on the arm.

one other possible factor, my wife was at son's for a week. they have two siamese and two dogs. problem started before that but may have increased a bit after her return.

re: urinary tract problems, first vet did tests and said there was increased 'creatine" (sp?) in the urine. prescribed dose of anti-biotics for 10 days--completed course of treatment. seemed to help for a short time then problem resumed. new vet has checked and says urine is fine. anti-biotics not needed. he believes colitis maybe involved and has prescribed 'apo-metronidazole', 250 MG in morning. along with the amytriptaline, 5 mgs in a.m with option of 5 mg more in p.m.

appreciate your thoughts on using the amytriptaline. have some reservations about giving this type of drug to 13 pound, 4 ounces cat. vet thinks may help with probable depression and fears. also have you used the grain-based litter? any other suggestions for the litter-medium that might be helpful?

thanks for the support and the ideas. open to any input to assist my 'little friend'

mac

 

[Anne]

The lady was probably right - the outside males can be a real stress cause. Do you know who their owners are? The best solution would be to have them neutered.

I think drug therapy may be helpful in this case, as it sounds like a stress-related behavior. As for dosage, I guess the vet would know best.

Please let us know how they're doing.

 

[havel1hv]

I have a 'scaredy cat' who is greatly helped by Feliway. Not sure who makes it, but if you are interested I will find out. I buy if from my vet, and it is expensive (unfortunitly). It is a spray that somehow removes cat markings? so that they don't feel like they are in another cat's territory (not like urine markings but the marks made with their faces and feet). It was either this spray or we would have to give her kitty Prozac... Our vet doesn't like to perscribe that kind of stuff and she says it often drastically changes their personality. She wasn't eating and she wasn't using the litterbox. With this spray she actually leaves our bedroom =)

Heather V. Havel
Michigan - USA

 

[maclan1]

havel1hv

would appreciate knowing more about 'feliway'. may not be available in canada but if I could get name of supplier in michigan, maybe could discuss further with vet here.

thanks for input. your comments 2 anne.

 

[ruth]

I have the exact same problem you do. A passive, intimidated, urinating male and an agressive female. Plus another female who is not so aggressive. I am at my wits end. It followed a gradual progression like in your case. I will look into this Feliway. I am inclined to think, however, that there is a medical problem which the vets aren't hooking into because certain times when I sat him in the litter box and he urinated, defecation followed immediately, which is odd. There is that operation which widens their urinary tract, i.e. giving them a vagina, but it costs $400 and may have side effects. Plus my vet is reluctant to do it because he says the cat urinates fine when he is there. But that is probably because there is no place else to go in a cage. RUTH

 

[havel1hv]

Feliway is a pheromone Spray (I'm taking this off the container

I have a day off!)
uses: to stop or prevent urinary markings by the cat. To comfort the cat in an unknown or stressful environment (cage, car, boarding, new house, etc.). One spray per area. Made by Abbott Laboratories Animal Health in North Chicago, Illinois - USA.

My vet has me put a spray on any surfaces that the cats rub against (body, face or feet). None of our cats spray (only 1 male and he doesn't spray). We put the stuff around the house every time Pandora (our scardy cat) starts to hole up in our bed room. Usually see an immediate positive reaction. May have to spray a couple of time though to keep the responce with out the spray - usually we spray every 3-4 day three times and then stop...

Warning that it does smell a bit odd - but doesn't last long. Kind of a cross between fresh cut chives and fresh weed wacked weeds...

Later

,

Heather V. Havel
Michigan - USA

 

[pccat]

I have adopted a  male cat who was in a cage at the shelter for almost 2 years.  He was allegedly feral when they found him at 6 weeks.  He is a scardy cat, but extremely affectionate and sleeps with his head on my neck.    He urinates on my clothes,  bedspread, and recently in my gym bag.   He poops on my couches (when I allow him in the living room area).   He has had very loose bowel movements since I got him. He also drinks more water than any cat I know.   The vet checked him for parasites and there were none.  She also put him on a rabbit/potato dry food diet (for food allergies) with no different result. 

I clean his litter box 1 to 2x a day.  I have moved it and nothing changes.   It is in a closet type area, fully accessible and private. There is no lid on the box.  I tried putting food out on the couches and it seemed to work but my dog keeps eating the food.  Right before he defecates on a couch or carpet, he makes a very weird meowing/howling noise.  Any suggestions?