Maine coon HCM test: nonsense??

[dan138zig]

Found a rather interesting article. Here I'll quote some of it:

The result shows that the gene test does not bring anything. The study resulted in that Maine Coons with HCM are just as frequently positively tested in the gene test, as Maine Coons without HCM.
Therefore the investment is not worthwhile itself into a gene test simply.
With the examined patient number no association was found between the HCM and the examined Polymorphismen. That means this HCM Gentest is nonsense.

What do you think?? Read the rest: http://www.hamshillcats.co.uk/about-hcm-testing

 

[Willowy]

Well, I guess I would expect a breeder who chooses not to test to call it nonsense! :lol3: Genetic testing isn't just to see which cats are affected; it's also to see what genes they'll pass on to their offspring. A cat who carries 2 copies of the gene is 18 times more likely to get HCM than an unaffected cat. So, yes, most cats with 2 copies of the gene WON'T get HCM, but they do have a significantly increased chance of it. And gene testing isn't the whole story, a heart scan is also done. Here's a pretty good article about HCM and testing, from a reputable vet university: http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/cat/MaineCoonHCM.php

 

[dan138zig]

What should I do if there's no HCM test available in my country? Should I give up having a Maine Coon altogether? Many kittens being sold here only have their grandparents tested since they're imported.

 

[orientalslave]

You can probably send swabs (cotton buds rubbed inside the cat's check) to labs abroad.  However I believe breeders in the UK and US also have their cats checked with ultrasound to see if there are any apparent problems.  Cats that test negative for the HCM gene can still develop HCM - there are more genes than we know about at present involved, and it's possible in my view that there are other factors as well.  The Langford in the UK will take samples from some non-EU countries outside the UK, but don't mention your country.  Suggest you email them and enquire.

http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagnostic-laboratories/diagnostic-laboratories/general-info-breeders

 

[dan138zig]

Another view:
. As of January 1, 2011 CatDNAtest.org will not be offering the HCM test for Maine Coons, see further explanation on the linked DNA tests available page. This test is currently available for Ragdolls only.Others tests are continually added to the array. List of DNA tests available...
http://www.catdnatest.org/

 

[maewkaew]

Found a rather interesting article. Here I'll quote some of it:

The result shows that the gene test does not bring anything. The study resulted in that Maine Coons with HCM are just as frequently positively tested in the gene test, as Maine Coons without HCM.
Therefore the investment is not worthwhile itself into a gene test simply.
With the examined patient number no association was found between the HCM and the examined Polymorphismen. That means this HCM Gentest is nonsense.

What do you think?? Read the rest: http://www.hamshillcats.co.uk/about-hcm-testing

That quote does sound discouraging if taken by itself, but I would certainly not just make a decision about it based on a single study without a broader understanding. The genetic test is not an absolute yes/ no thing. It's more complicated than that. Willowy makes some good points . There's other research that has shown other results. There is a more comprehensive explanation in the link Willowy gave to the summary written by Dr. Niels Pedersen (of University of California at Davis )

It is a dominant trait with incomplete penetrance and variable expression. That means some cats who have the gene don't show ( or not yet ) signs of disease. To make things more complicated there are probably multiple genes involved. But if it is of limited information, does not mean totally worthless.

And as Willowy also said, the genetic testing is not your only weapon. Breeders should also be getting regular heart scans /ECGs on their breeding cats. -- not just one test and then they are clear forever. For example you might get them tested at one year old and they do not yet show signs of it, but they could develop it later, and might be passing it on to kittens. I know MC breeders who get the ECG done every year. Or there are more specific recommendations listed in various places.
The Maine Coon Breeders and Fanciers Association (a breed club that is mostly U.S. but does have some members in other countries) has a page about health. If you scroll down under the article that talks about when the DNA test for an HCM related gene was first discovered, there is a list of links to different articles with health recommendations. If I were thinking of breeding Maine Coons ,I would be reading those. http://www.mcbfa.org/healthfiles.html

For example here are the recommendations from Pawpeds database that keeps track of pedigrees and of some health data. http://www.pawpeds.com/healthprogrammes/recommendations.html On this page, where it says "tested" , it's talking about the ECG heart scans .

here is an analysis of Pawpeds data that shows the importance of continuing to get the ECG tests http://ig-hgk.de/html/pawpeds-database-analysis.html

You have not said what country you are in, but from your user name I could not help but think of Danzig (Gdansk) ,Poland. I don't know if that is right, but anyway the Pawpeds list of vets associated with their HCM testing program, includes a vet in Warsaw. If you are all the way across the country , maybe that vet can recommend someone else closer.

HCM is a tragic disease. Surely anyone who cares about this magnificent breed would want to do everything possible to avoid spreading it.

Apparently this UK breeder whose site you linked is not doing echocardiograms either and they just claim their cats must be healthy since they get vet check ups. It seems to me that breeder is not very well informed , since the only thing they put on their page about HCM was an excuse not to do a DNA test; maybe they hope this will confuse people into thinking there is no value to either that OR the ECG. )

What should I do if there's no HCM test available in my country? Should I give up having a Maine Coon altogether? Many kittens being sold here only have their grandparents tested since they're imported.

With the DNA tests, you can send samples to a lab in another country if there isn't a veterinary genetics lab in yours. So the reason many breeding cats in your country aren't tested is probably not because they CAN'T be. It's probably because of what you said on the other thread -- that a lot of people there are breeding for money, not for the cats. Breeders like that don't want to bother learning , especially about anything that would lower their profits.

The trouble is, if you as a new breeder get involved with people who just got into breeding to make some extra cash, they're likely to be using any excuses possible to cut corners, and putting profit above the welfare of the cats and the breed. So that is not the greatest kind of mentor to have. It's like the blind leading the blind.

If you ARE in Poland, this might be a breeder you should talk to ; it looks like at least they are doing some health testing and they have some very nice looking cats. http://www.greengrove.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1&lang=en

 

[dan138zig]

I'm in Indonesia and to be honest I'm disappointed with some breeders' attitude who seem oblivious about the importance of this test. Granted, they sell at a cheaper price, but still... Looks like they're targetting uninformed buyers.

 

[maewkaew]

Ah, Indonesia. -- Well that sure is a long way from Poland! I am laughing at myself for jumping to conclusions from seeing the 2 parts of letters in your name here were a city in Poland. .

It is too bad there not a very responsible attitude among the breeders. Indonesia is far from the only country like that. Of course there are also some irresponsible breeders in highly devloped countries, but we are fortunate to also have some that are extremely responsible. Getting one from imported lines that at least the grandparents and previous generations had been tested and have been very healthy would at least help the chances. . Maybe there is a vet hospital in Indonesia, or vet school with a teaching hospital with a cardiologist that can do an ECG.

 

[tartantabby]

I've seen this on a few breeders sites. Its an excuse not to test. Its well known for those who bother to study such things that +ve cats don't always get HCM and vica versa.

The CFA got a couple of experts to pronoune that breeders should avoid using +VE cats unless there was good reasons to do so. Talk about a get out of jail clause.

There are no health guarantees with any cats, but having spoken to one of the world's experts on HCM at length, all breeding cats should be echo tested every 2 years. The gene test is useful, but as there are 100 + genes likely to carry HCM its only the tip of the iceberg.