Mackerel or spotted tabby?

[sol]

I still think he looks a lot like the mackerel spot... in Sweden we have a name for these hard cases, "spigrÃ[emoji]169[/emoji]". It's a mix of "spotted" and the Swedish name for mackerel,"tigrÃ[emoji]169[/emoji]". He's a perfect spigrÃ[emoji]169[/emoji].

He's a spockerel!

 

[kai bengals]

Whew, lot of stuff to consider, but based on the new photos, I'm going to say: Spotted Tabby. But just barely, and only because the belly is clearly spotted. If the belly were mottled or striped I would have said Mackerel.

I still think there will be lots of argument between judges at the shows. It could easily go either way if you don't take the clear spots on the tummy into consideration. Even those aren't a complete indicator, but since the stripes are broken up quite a bit................

 

[goldenkitty45]

Just thinking - since there still is no clear cut consensus on this between us show/breeder people, am wondering if this kitten may have Bengal or Ocicat in the background - either one would cause a problem with tabby markings (mack vs spotted). What do you all think?

 

[nekochan]

Yeah, his stomach is definitely 100% spotted, no stripes there at all.

The patterns along his spine are hard to determine. The area is very dark, the pattern is not well-defined. It looks more spotty at his shoulders, then a longer dark area along the very top along the spine, with a mix of broken-up stripes (more elongated than spots) and spots on either side of the dark area going down his back towards his tail where the dark area breaks up.

I'm not sure if that helps, don't most spotted cats also have a 'dorsal' stripe that is mostly solid, with spots on each side of it?

Goldenkitty, do you think that Mau genes could also be a consideration? I've never seen any Ocicats or Bengals in the area, but I did catch a stray kitten a number of years ago who was silver spotted and looked a LOT like a Mau...
When I first caught Church I almost wondered if he could be part bobcat because he was so wild-looking and we live along a canal where there is a lot of wildlife!

 

[goldenkitty45]

Yes Mau could be a possibility too - forgot about those spotted ones

Problem is that Maus have small spots. If we can't agree, then maybe YOU choose what you want to register him as in TICA

 

[sol]

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Just thinking - since there still is no clear cut consensus on this between us show/breeder people, am wondering if this kitten may have Bengal or Ocicat in the background - either one would cause a problem with tabby markings (mack vs spotted). What do you all think?

I think any kind of breeding that don't focus on good patterns is bound to create these kind of problems. I see it all the time in the Devon Rex and I guarantee you there are no Bengals, Ocicats or Egyptian Maus that create problems in the Devon Rex.

 

[artgecko]

This has been really interesting, both the pics and the arguments on either side. One of my DSH kittens (niles) is a red tabby and I've been wondering what he is. He seems to be in the same boat as church, some "stripes" (some of which are squiggly) a lot of "spots", he even has maybe 3-4 blury rosettes... A spotted belly and his topline is partially broken up around the shoulders into small spots with a (not-so-well) defined line down his back afterward.

I guess he'd be a spotted tabby too.

Art

 

[abymummy]

I stand by my conviction that he's spotted!

And the belly shots just confirm it

Best thing to do is to get a copy of the show standards and make a decision...not that it really matters

Why are you hiding your face?

 

[goldenkitty45]

Ok so if the belly has a lot of little spots then it's a spotted tabby? What kind of spotting would the mackeral tabbies have?

 

[nekochan]

I was searching for breeds which had similar coloration to Church to see what they call the pattern, and I've found that the breed which has the closest resemblance is the Pixie Bob. According to the TICA breed standard the Pixie Bob can only be brown spotted tabby, and broken mackerel stripes are allowed in their patterns:

COLOR: Light to medium shades of
brown spotted tabby with
warm/reddish tones preferred, broken
mackerel (muted) spotting accepted.

I've been looking at photos of Pixie Bobs and have seen a number of cats whose patterns look similar to Church's so I'm thinking that spotted tabby is probably an acceptable description for him. If I do register him as a brown spotted tabby (with white) and any judges ask about the pattern category I could refer them to the Pixie Bob standard for precedence.

The funny this is I had him listed on Catster as a Domestic/Pixie Bob cross just for the heck of it because his wild-looking face as a younger kitten reminded me of a Pixie Bob, but at the time I didn't realize the pattern similarities...

 

[abymummy]

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Ok so if the belly has a lot of little spots then it's a spotted tabby? What kind of spotting would the mackeral tabbies have?

From what I have seen macs would have larger more evenly spaced spots on the belly, lines even!

 

[goldenkitty45]

I looked at a few websites of the Pixie Bob. From the pics and description it looks like Church could have some of that in the background. But Church has pretty clear markings; Pixie Bobs have more of a ticked coat where the spotting is not so clear. But the overall pattern now looks like some of the Pixie Bob cats.

And you are right - it does say "spotted tabby" in the standard.

I'll retract my mackeral tabby - register Church as a Brown Spotted Tabby with White

 

[nekochan]

Hey guys I know this is an old thread, but I just took some new video of Church and I think it shows his spots pretty well (there are a few times when he stops near the camera):


http://www.catster.com/video/663933/leaping_churchill_2


Personally I think he definitely has too many spots to be a mackerel...

 

[laureen227]

Originally Posted by Nekochan

Hey guys I know this is an old thread, but I just took some new video of Church and I think it shows his spots pretty well (there are a few times when he stops near the camera):


http://www.catster.com/video/663933/leaping_churchill_2


Personally I think he definitely has too many spots to be a mackerel...

he certainly has more than my mackerel, Cable...



altho she does have kind of a spotted tummy!

this is a good site for coat patterns: striped, spotted & ticked cats

 

[nekochan]

Thanks, I've been to that website but they show I think really the "ideal" spotting or mackerel. Since Church is a mix he does not have the ideal markings so it's hard to determine...