Lump on back of thigh

[FeralHearts]

Hi. Have they taken radiographs of the leg? I would also have them do 3 view radiographs of the chest. This is done to look for metastasis to the chest. If there are mets in the chest it is best to hold off on doing anything . This is just my opinion if she was my cat. I am not a Veterinarian and am not offering medical advice for your cat. Just what I would do if she was mine. Depending on what the radiographs show, I would discuss amputation with the oncologist as soon as possible. Cats do just fine with three legs. They adjust well and after a while get around just as well as the did with 4 legs. Just my thoughts on this. It doesn't sound like there is a question as to if it is lymphoma, more like what kind.
Has your cat been checked for feline leukemia and FIV?I am sorry for what you both are going through.

Hi *waves*

I didn't even think about you viewing on a phone. Glad you were able to open them.

They did take radiographs of the leg. I didn't get those when they sent the other results. I will ask for it when they call about the PARR.

I have a feeling you and I are both thinking / coming to the same conclusion. That this cancer mass is a secondary cancer. The more I ran stuff through the A.I. the more I was thinking secondary. If it's in the lungs, and with her weight... gah. %&^$@ I will talk to them about chest x-rays.

We are waiting for an oncologist but it looks like a lot are booked solid and her Doctor did say she needs one ASAP. If we get desperate for an opinion there is someone who does telehealth and seems to be very well respected. If I can't get anyone in person - this might be the only option. Surgical Oncological Teleconsulting - Dr. Sarah Boston hopefully she may have some telehealth spots. Better to have someone in person for sure - but if she can't see anyone...

Guelph is the best place to take her - teaching hospital. It's about an hour and a half away. They are really booked up. The only other two places are Oakville and Mississauga - both just about a hour or an hour a bit away and we might be able to get her in their quicker. This is starting to look like another hurdle to get over is going to be to even get her a doctor.

I have 4 kitties, all with various healthy issues. (yup I'm that lucky.) When the sisters were brought in, two were brought in due to various emergencies in a very short period of time. Like a month apart. The landscape I live was changing and as a result so was their safety. (Building) The third sister I simply refused to leave alone outside - though it would turn out she had issues too. There is a resident cat here (Charlie) who has a fair number of health issues ( and attitude lol) - so I was careful. They all has snapped tests done for feline leukemia and FIV. The kicker is this... years later I read they can be inaccurate, and once you inoculate them, which of course I did, you can't retest. I really wish they would tell you these things at the time. So short version - as far as I know they are good.

Mia has always had some respiratory issues though - kitty colds. Runny eyes and such. No sneezing or coughing though.

Chronic inflammation causes all sorts of illness, including cancer. I've given them all supplements, made sure they had their omegas. Their kitty supply is a small stand alone closet - no joke.

Thank you very much. It really sucks. The many emotions and trying to stay rational and focused. Wow. This all just ... sucks.

 

[FeralHearts]

Update:

I called one of the Oncology places myself to see what the wait times are. About a week if urgent and otherwise booking into August. They have to assess the reports first. I picked the first one on the list and it turns out it's Dr. Bostons. I'm not a firm believer in coincidence.

Spoke to one of the wonderful vets at her clinic. It was a good discussion.

1. PARR - very, very reasonable thoughts. We are going to hold off though and see what the oncologist wants as if she needs a biopsy anyway it would end up being an extra cost that could be avoided - not cheap you are right FeebysOwner - but it's not off the table at all. IF we can do it instead of the Biopsy (depending on what the oncologist says) then that will be done. They want her to see the oncologists first and it makes sense.

2. X-rays - same thing. We all think that's absolutely a good idea S silent meowlook we discussed that as well. She would probably need both an ultrasound and x-rays. If it's in the lungs and it's small - the x-ray may not show anything. She said the oncologist can do both and it's better to let them if need be otherwise they might have to do them twice. (I have had that happen before so I can appreciate that thought a lot.)

3. They have put a call into the oncologist and we are waiting to hear back for an appointment. Oddly enough - yup - Doctor Boston. Again, not a believer in coincidence.(Well maybe sometimes ) More often that not I have found it to be what I often call "flow". If I don't hear by next week she's suggested I call and gently ask where they are at.

4. We are waiting for testing to complete on the fluid in her joint. That will be about a week.

5. Forgot to ask them to send me the info on the x-rays. *sigh* But her notes say this about the rads - in bold:

"
admit: D: see hx from yesterday
is fasted and received 100 mg gabapentin this AM. is much more
comfortable today.
GPE: HR 220, RR 52 but not dyspnic and normal ausculatation.
EENT, CV, RESP, ABN, MM, hydration- NAF. bCS 8/9.
discussed risks and plan for today
gave midazolam 0.8 mg and methadone 1 mg IM L epaxials.
mild sedation
chem normal
CBC dec WBC, neutropenia, lymphopenia, eosinopenia.
consumption, severe infection?
rads- mild osteophytes at the stifle but there is soft tissue swelling
around hock and irregular appearance of the bones of the hock.
there is also soft tissue opacity at the popliteal/mass.
suspect septic joint and reactive PLN.
IVC
gave 0.4 ml alfaxolone IV
monitors- noraml
clip and prep of joint.
joitn tap as per VIN procedures manual
aspirated about 0.4 ml of bloody joint fluid.
sedation started to wear off- opted not to sedate heavier due to
obesity and I suspec the mass is the reactive popliteal lymph
node. opted for fna of the mass.
uneventful recover. 0.1 ml meloxicam SC (5 mg/mL)
0.2 mL into red top, 0.2 ml into white top, Chas to check with
IDEXX how to send for aerobic and anaerobic culture and
sensativity.
discussed all of this with the owner.
will start amoxi-clav now to give with food until cuture results.
metacam-discussed potnetial side effects and call and do nt give
if not eating or drinking and if vomiting or diarrhea.
will call with results. recheck in 1 wek or sooner if not well.
was not able to collect urine- bladder was small but UA from
March showed very high USG indicating good kidney function.admit: D: see hx from yesterday".

6.. More research, prayers, begging to the universe and hope for the best outcome possible.

7. Figure out things I can do for her while we wait. The nearest holistic - 2 hours - so I'm on my own for that one.

 

[FeebysOwner]

This sounds like an excellent plan! You have got the ball rolling and that is what counts!!!

 

[FeralHearts]

So kitty and I got some bad news. I don't have the right words to describe this - sucks sucks sucks is pretty much all I can come up with. She has cancer.

While we wait for an oncology appointment I'm hoping to get some suggestions and advice on what I can do for her to help her heal, to keep her comfortable, to fight inflammation etc.

She is currently on 125mg Amoxi-Clav twice a day and Metacam. She goes back to see her Doctor On tuesday. We are waiting for culture results on a secondary issue on her knee for Synovial fluid.

Edit to add: at this stage no signs of fever or even pain. The vet gave her the metacam as she must be in pain and to help get the inflammation down. The last does I think is Monday and she goes back to her DR tuesday to asses her secondary issue.

 

[Kieka]

I'm so sorry for your cats diagnosis. I've been there with my rainbow kitty and it's a horrible diagnosis to get.

That said, since she is one a medication you do want to be cautious with mixing holistic medicine in just because of the interactions. If she was on nothing right now, I'd say CBD since it is an anti inflammatory but it also interacts pretty heavily with pain medications.

 

[FeralHearts]

I'm so sorry for your cats diagnosis. I've been there with my rainbow kitty and it's a horrible diagnosis to get. .

Thank you. I'm sorry you had to go down this path too.

Do you have a thread here about your journey?

That said, since she is one a medication you do want to be cautious with mixing holistic medicine in just because of the interactions. If she was on nothing right now, I'd say CBD since it is an anti inflammatory but it also interacts pretty heavily with pain medications.

Thank you as well for replying.

Very true. I was going to wait until the anti-biotics were complete and see if she was keeping her on the metacam or anything else but I want to be prepped. :-) but that is a good reminder!

I know a place not to far that deals in human holistics. The girls there actually have a education in it and have done things for both my mom and one of my cats for inflammation so I'll be paying them a visit next week to see what they know as well.

"but it also interacts pretty heavily with pain medications" - if I read that right, you mean in a bad way, correct?

I looked at these too, but the choices are a bit overwhelming:

Remedy Health Problems for Cats by Condition | Shop NHV

and

Lymphoma Gold Support

Cats - remedies by condition - Lymphoma - NHV Natural Pet

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. Ok, so make sure that the radiographs and all the lab work go to the specialist that you see. If you can’t get right in, you might want a specialist consult on the rads. I believe IDEXX will do this.

Just to be clear, I don’t think this is coming from somewhere else. The radiographs to check for Mets in the lungs are just a good standard of care and any specialist will do them.

So, if there is cancer in the lungs, shown on radiographs, it is supposed to be a throw in the towel type situation. I personally while working at the cat hospital, took chest rads myself on a cat and he had some of the biggest Mets to the chest I had ever seen. I immediately sent them to the vet who thought it was surprising but didn’t have the same feeling of dread about it that I did. The cst went home and did well for at least a year, maybe more. So, you have to remember that cats don’t read medical books, they don’t know they are sick and they don’t follow our rules. They also don’t come with expiration dates. Cats constantly defy the expected medical outcomes.

My own cat has large nodules and an interstitial lung pattern. She has for years and maybe since I’ve had her. She also has intestinal lymphoma diagnosed by ultrasound, and a mass in her abdomen, she has hyperthyroidism and asthma. She is still with me. So don’t get to depressed thinking about all this. Nothing is definite in medicine. Read the cat not the records.

 

[Kieka]

Do you have a thread here about your journey?

No, it was 15 years ago. He was a special one and fought hard but in the end cancer won.

but it also interacts pretty heavily with pain medications" - if I read that right, you mean in a bad way, correct

It impacts the effectiveness of pain medications, which can be bad or good. Depending on which medicine it will have different effects. It tends to make opioid medicines stronger actually which can be a bad thing IMO. With my boy, he takes CBD on a regular basis, whenever he has medical issues I refuse pain medications for the first 24 hours if there is the option to. Otherwise, the pain medication completely knocks him out. In some situations, that isn't necessarily a bad thing (he was attacked by a coyote and being knocked out was a good thing then) but it is something to be aware of. This study has some details but remember some things might not be applicable to the feline anatomy.

Cannabidiol Interactions with Medications, Illicit Substances, and Alcohol: a Comprehensive Review.

 

[FeralHearts]

This sounds like an excellent plan! You have got the ball rolling and that is what counts!!!

*nods*

Hi. Ok, so make sure that the radiographs and all the lab work go to the specialist that you see. If you can’t get right in, you might want a specialist consult on the rads. I believe IDEXX will do this.

Thank you!

Just to be clear, I don’t think this is coming from somewhere else. The radiographs to check for Mets in the lungs are just a good standard of care and any specialist will do them.

I am a little - but I need to be patient and wait. Hard to do!

So, if there is cancer in the lungs, shown on radiographs, it is supposed to be a throw in the towel type situation. I personally while working at the cat hospital, took chest rads myself on a cat and he had some of the biggest Mets to the chest I had ever seen. I immediately sent them to the vet who thought it was surprising but didn’t have the same feeling of dread about it that I did. The cst went home and did well for at least a year, maybe more. So, you have to remember that cats don’t read medical books, they don’t know they are sick and they don’t follow our rules. They also don’t come with expiration dates. Cats constantly defy the expected medical outcomes.

This is very , very true. A cats body is much like a humans - full of surprises! No two situations will follow the same rules.

My own cat has large nodules and an interstitial lung pattern. She has for years and maybe since I’ve had her. She also has intestinal lymphoma diagnosed by ultrasound, and a mass in her abdomen, she has hyperthyroidism and asthma. She is still with me. So don’t get to depressed thinking about all this. Nothing is definite in medicine.

You're little on sounds like she is thriving in spite of it! Very nice to hear.

Read the cat not the records.

Sounds advice. She was doing well before this diagnosis (Well, as well as she could be with the added weight.) and for all I know she'll do fine with it for a long time.

I'll have to stop the Metacam dose tomorrow as her appetite isn't great. Not sure if it's the metacam or the anti-biotics but the doctor was quite clear about the metacam if she lost her appetite.

No, it was 15 years ago. He was a special one and fought hard but in the end cancer won.

:-(

It impacts the effectiveness of pain medications, which can be bad or good. Depending on which medicine it will have different effects. It tends to make opioid medicines stronger actually which can be a bad thing IMO. With my boy, he takes CBD on a regular basis, whenever he has medical issues I refuse pain medications for the first 24 hours if there is the option to. Otherwise, the pain medication completely knocks him out. In some situations, that isn't necessarily a bad thing (he was attacked by a coyote and being knocked out was a good thing then) but it is something to be aware of. This study has some details but remember some things might not be applicable to the feline anatomy.

Cannabidiol Interactions with Medications, Illicit Substances, and Alcohol: a Comprehensive Review.

Holy cow! He survived a coyote. Lucky cat!!!

Thank you. I will certainly read up and continue to do the research on another venue. I appreciate the link and help a lot.

 

[FeralHearts]

So we are back from her re-check today.

So we're all a bit puzzled. Culture came back on the synovial fluid and there is no infection - yet the area is very, very warm. The only thing I can think of is that her body is trying to heal itself.

It appears this is an aggressive, fast moving cancer, So not good.

They have given me a lower dose of Gabapentin to help with inflammation and pain. (I asked for something for her.)

Earliest available appointment for oncology is Aug 14/23 - I've taken it - knowing full well she may not make it to that.

We will have to take this one day and step at a time.

So... in spite the doctors wanting me to wait for oncology before doing this - I am starting her on AHCC the second it arrives. I currently have her on some powdered mushrooms ( Canine Healthy Matrix Pet Daily Immune Support) when she started to feel sick from the anti-biotics - it perked her up.

 

[fionasmom]

There is a lot of research with the use of fungi in cancer treatment, much done at the major cancer centers, and there does appear to be effectiveness in some cases.

AHCC will make ondansetron less effective if it is given at the same time. I did not think that I saw that you were using it right now though.

 

[FeralHearts]

There is a lot of research with the use of fungi in cancer treatment, much done at the major cancer centers, and there does appear to be effectiveness in some cases.

*nods* been researching my little heart out thanks to a very kind person her who put me onto it. maggiemay

I'm hoping for a miracle but in reality if the AHCC helps prologue her life, helps her to be more comfortable - I think that's all I can ask and that's something. :-)

AHCC will make ondansetron less effective if it is given at the same time. I did not think that I saw that you were using it right now though.

Thank you - that's good to know.

No, not yet. (I had to look up what that was - so thank you. I like having more knowledge of things.) She still has to see the oncologist but having that info is a great thing when/if the times comes. XO

 

[FeralHearts]

Update:

Another cancer centre that's is a bit further away is able to see is much sooner. So July 11th is when we go. I'm so, so, incredibly grateful for them being able to do this.

Terrified too but I think that goes without saying.

 

[silent meowlook]

Oh, that’s good.
Just wondering if your vets have discussed amputating the leg?

 

[FeralHearts]

Oh, that’s good.
Just wondering if your vets have discussed amputating the leg?

Yes, I'm so very very grateful. I almost burst into tears on the phone but I held it together pretty good. I was proud. It's a 2 hour drive near but I don't care. I can make her comfortable and have gabapentin and someone to drive so that I can focus on Mia.

Yes, amputation is on the table if it's localized. If it's throughout - that may not be an option. If it's going to give her 6 months - also not an option. Cost is sadly going to play into this as well. So I'm bracing myself and trying to work out what I can do.

One thing I read - and I'm going to admit right now that absolutely pure hellfire went through my veins when I read it - then complete heartbreak after.

If it's in the GI track this might explain her weight. We have tried everything under the sun to get her weight down. She doesn't eat a lot. I've weight her food the whole shabang. I even over, over, over and over again pointed this out to the doctors and when she was feral, before her emergency that brought her inside, she had suddenly gained a lot of weight. I even had then check diabetes, T4's etc.

What did I read that brought on the hellfire? GI cancer can present itself as a fat cat -so you can imagine the hellfire that poured through my veins. Then came the heartbreak and the fact that I may have completely failed her by not pushing harder.

 

[FeebysOwner]

You can only push so much, and even when you do, it doesn't necessarily mean a different outcome. You've done a lot.

 

[FeralHearts]

You can only push so much, and even when you do, it doesn't necessarily mean a different outcome.

Too true.

Her Doctors are such amazing kind souls and I felt bad when I felt that rage. (No i didn't show them or do anything as I was at home at night. I still felt bad though that I felt it towards them as they are wonderful.) I can get mad, I can get impatient and I can get moody - but that rage was so very different. I think satan himself actually stepped back a bit.

I think this is the stage where you try to find something to blame - even if it's yourself. Just so it makes sense.

You've done a lot.

Thank you. XOXO I'm trying.

 

[fionasmom]

I think that we all go through the stage of believing that we should have been psychic about a cat's illness. Once something is put on the table as a possibility out brain reverses it into some kind of logical progression that we should have seen. Very often, as FeebysOwner said, it does not change outcomes.

As for amputation, you are thinking clearly. I do have experience with that with my last GSD and melanoma. If the imaging is clear, it is a good option. If there are metastasizes I would not do it. Ask about the likelihood of getting clean margins if they do want to amputate. S silent meowlook addressed the issues of amputation a few days ago.

 

[FeralHearts]

I think that we all go through the stage of believing that we should have been psychic about a cat's illness. Once something is put on the table as a possibility out brain reverses it into some kind of logical progression that we should have seen. Very often, as FeebysOwner said, it does not change outcomes.

*nods* Boy we do like to torment ourselves don't we?

If I find out it was from the GI - anger will do not good. Wasted energy. I will spend the time educating in the hopes of helping someone else. That at least is a positive use of it and I have to remember it's all speculation right now until she sees the oncologist. Trying to prepare my body, mind and soul.

As for amputation, you are thinking clearly. I do have experience with that with my last GSD and melanoma. If the imaging is clear, it is a good option. If there are metastasizes I would not do it. Ask about the likelihood of getting clean margins if they do want to amputate. S silent meowlook addressed the issues of amputation a few days ago.

Thank you for this confirmation. I'm realizing right now just how valuable what's being said is. At the oncologists, I am going to have to make many choices then and there. Being blindsided in the throws of emotion - you can't think properly. Having all this information, getting prepared, will absolutely make it easier to think clearly and that will be so important.

What S silent meowlook said about the x-rays and the test - we went through that at the vet and it was all spot on. I don't think I would have had that information had I not asked a few things, like what FeebysOwner had suggested about the PARR Assay. It really opened up the communication with the vet and made it easier.

I so appreciate everything you all are saying and taking the time with me. There are not enough thank-you's in the world to express it.

------------------------------------------

SIDE NOTE / VENT off topic: This is another bad week. I shouldn't complain though as someone out there has it far worse.

Things took a turn for Charlie, who I've been keeping an eye on this week as he seems / okay not seems - I think IS - very constipated. I tried multiple things - no luck. As he also has idiopathic cystitis- and constipation can also be a flair up with that - Vet time it is. Back we go.

Today the cameras kept going off - so I looked - he was trying too poo and having a hard time - then he cried. This cat does not cry (unless it's at night and I'm in bed - he cries for 20 minutes until I call his name to come to me) he didn't even cry when he had his first bout of cystitis and that actually was on a 4 scale of blood - he was at a 3. No signs at all of any issues. Zero. Save for a bad attitude... which he has a lot lol. If it wasn't for everyone here at the cat site - we never would have figured that out. You are all a blessing.

I made an executive decision to take him to the vet tomorrow as naturally this weekend is a long weekend - and our ER vet has a habit right now of having to turn people away. The next closest one is near an hour away. So I'm not risking him.

PS - Everytime this week that my emotions have started to run - I've gone outside away from the cats - for this very reason. They feel your stress.

Seriously universe? Seriously?

Just had to get that out.

/VENT

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi.
So, does your cat have intestinal lymphoma? Or are you thinking she has it because she is overweight? You will make yourself insane drawing conclusions and looking for zebras in a herd of ponies. Take things at face value and think about the immediate in your face problems, not the possible problems.

Cats pick up on how we feel. The universe picks up on what we dwell on. The statement that what you fear is what you find is spot on.

It doesn’t matter how much you worry or dwell on things or how much you try to learn, it won’t help your cat.

I can relate to what you are going through. I have worked at small animal hospitals since I was 14. I have worked specialty and emergency and a decade in feline only. I have attended more seminars and taken more classes in the field than I can remember. My own cat Cheetah has intestinal lymphoma, hyperthyroidism, asthma, elevated heart enzymes, a space occupying mass in her intestines, nodules in her lungs, and I am pretty sure at this point kidney disease. My cat Rusty ( best cat in the world) had FLUTD,FUS, severe allergies, IBS, chronic rhinitis, several urinary blocking episodes, and feline herpes. I euthanized Rusty in 2017, after treating his kidney disease for years. I have helped more cats and their owners with hospice care and treatments than I can remember. My comfort level with cat medicine is good. I still constantly read and have access to the veterinary websites and boards. So I always continue to learn, but I am confident in my cat knowledge.

In 2011 I got a beautiful Andalusian TBH Mare as a rescue. My equine health knowledge was severly lacking in all areas. I listened to people at the barn, I listened to farriers and I listened to the vets I had out to see her. I loved that horse more than life, but she had many health issues. Some because of my lack of knowledge.

I poured into books and websites and did everything I could to learn about horses. The biggest problem was that I listened to everyone but my horse. I always knew something was really wrong. I wound up seeing 15 different veterinarians. None could help her. Most thought I was insane. I fought with vets to come out when she would colic. I fought with farriers to do better and then fired them when they couldn’t. I moved her to different stable locations to find the living set up she wanted. When she coliced I stayed in her pasture all night. I always knew something was really wrong. Vet # 16 found the issues. She had a protein losing enteropathy and he didn’t think she would last the month.

I was always terrified she had whatever I had just read about. I made me and her crazy. Me more than her. I walked around with that sick pit of the stomach feeling. I couldn’t sleep. I worried so much about her.

I even had vets out that did damage to her. Irreversible damage. It took 16 vets before I found one that would listen to me and actually listen to her. She survived with extensive treatments and daily injections of steroids for another year and a half. It wasn’t the gut that caused me to euthanize. It was a mechanical issue in her rear legs. One than the other.

So I do understand the frustration and anger as well as the self doubt and guilt. I do get it. But please take it from me, you will hurt yourself so much by the worry and fear.

I wish only the best for you and your kitty. I know it’s scary. See what the oncologist thinks but most importantly, listen to your gut about veterinarian, about what your cat needs and stick to your gums, but don’t try to find problems that aren’t there and beat yourself up over things that aren’t in your control.

Being a control freak myself it is hard when I am in a medical situation that I can’t control. Probably why my boyfriend didn’t want me to visit when he was in the hospital.

Sorry this is so long. I just needed you to know that we all understand and sympathize with what your going through.