Loosing Patience And Highly Stressed Cat Guy

[mopar4u]

hello

had cats all my life. had multi cat house for the last 20 years. current lineup is (all indoor cats):

#1 9 year old orange female - loves humans, currently attacks #4, gets irritated by #2 at times, confident, independent, treat motivated. cannot pick her up. fully clawed and fixed

#2 6 month old orange male - full of spunk, friendly, pisses off all other gets due to attempting to play with them (jumping on backs etc). very very confident. fully clawed and just got fixed.

#3 10 year old siamese female - #2 irritates her but other than that no issues. no claws and fixed

#4 9 year old siamese female - adopted her when she was about 6 months old, she was farell before that. “scardey cat”. no confidence. hisses and sometimes runs from #2. screams bloody murder when #1 comes after her. fully clawed and fixed


before we got #2 we had a 17 year old orange male that pretty much ran the house in a good way most times. the house had balance. #1 and #4 didnt care for eachother but co-existed without much drama. the 17 year old passed and along came kitten (#2). things started off ok. #2 was put into his own room for a couple weeks with baby gates so the others could smell and see. we finally let out #2, he went after all the cats, jumping on backs, took over #1’s cat tree spot and trying to play. he never backs down, mega confidence. few weeks went on and at night we started hearing horrible high pitched screams. this went on for about a week til we found out #1 was going after #4.

we put #4 in her own room with litter and food. at least once a day we bring #1 in the room and have them eat food face to face with supervision, no problems. ive given treats when they are face to face no problem. after these positive interactions we split them back up. been doing this for 3 weeks. thougt we would try an unsupervised letting her out of the room today. i caught out of the corner of my eye #1 charging after #4 and #4 screaming loud. once they are unsupervised all hell breaks loose.

try playing witn #1 and #4 but they could care less about playing. #4 only associates with me so i try spend time with her. we have 2 cat trees but #1 stopped using them cause #2 chases her away. havent seen any blood draw.

im ready to give up on #1 but i really dont want to. on the other hand i cant keep living like this. vet is ordering cat prozac for #1

help! ideas?

 

[stephanietx]

Have you tried calming agents such as Feliway to help ALL the kitties in the house de-stress? I would give that a try before going the Rx route. You could also try some of the products from Spirit Essences such as Peacemaker. Also, do you have a cat tree so that kitties can get up high to feel safer?

I also have 4 cats and it's not always a peaceful environment. Feliway is a lifesaver in my house, but it doesn't work for all kitties. It works for mine. When the diffuser is low, my male cat becomes aggressive and my older female cat gets hissy and growly.

When you notice #1 attacking #4, "herd" her away with a towel to a safe space, or you can try shaking a can with some beans in it. You want to distract. Also, try playing with her if that will help distract her from attacking the other kitty. We have to be vigilant with ours to keep them from attacking my oldest senior girl.

You also have a high energy kitty in a senior home. That's like sending a 3 yr old into a retirement community. Make sure you wear out that kitten, especially if he's not playing with the others. If you don't have a cat tree, you need one ASAP to help all your kitties.

Lastly, remember that cats will pick up on your stress and that will just aggravate the situation. I know it's easier said than done, but try not to stress about this.

 

[mopar4u]

we do have 1 feliway difuser plugger in outside the room #4 is in.

we have been trying the jackson galaxy anti-bully, peacemaker and self esteem oils for the last 3 weeks.

after the drama #1 takes off on her own (maybe its cause she hears me coming or from my clapping) and #4 stays in hiding.

we have 2 trees but the adults stopped using them cause #2 trys playing witn them while on the trees.

 

[stephanietx]

Was your house more peaceful before #2 came to live with you?

I would invest in more diffusers. We run 3 in our house at all times.

 

[mopar4u]

yes, we had balance/peace before #2.

why is #1 lashing out at #4 when #2 is the new one?

 

[mopar4u]

I ordered more feliway multicat solution, i will have 3 diffusers going. I dont think my current feliway solution is the multicat version.

Any other suggestions? Should i be letting #4 out unsupervised daily to see what happens?

 

[ArtNJ]

I think its highly likely the problem originally started because the kitten stressed the heck out of #4 and #1 happened to be nearby. Some cats hate being growled at as well, and #1 might have misinterpreted growling at the kitten as growling at him. At this point, the problem does exist independently of the kitten, but that doesn't mean the kitten is irrelevant. Think of it this way -- it would be hard to fix a marriage if one of the kids was constantly stealing and breaking stuff. In cat terms, its going to be hard to fix if #4 is constantly stressed by kitten behavior.

You mentioned letting #4 out, so I guess you think you live in an area where that is reasonably safe. If that is true, you might actually think about letting the kitten become an indoor/outdoor, which will get a ton of the energy out before the kitten comes back to the house. I don't think 6 months is too young, if you start slow -- i.e. be outside when the kitten is the first few times, then watch/listen at the door you let the kitten out of, go outside to check after a bit, etc, etc.

One additional note. You mentioned not seeing any blood, which isn't really the marker for serious problems. You have a serious problem if fur is being pulled out (you'll see clumps lying around, and may actually see it come off if you see the fight) and if you do a deep fur massage, you may feel scabs from scratches, especially on the head, ears, neck and shoulder area, which is also not a good sign. Of course, you can have a serious problem from behavioral consequences alone, but if fur is not being pulled out and you aren't feeling scratches, you likely don't have an actual safety issue. Cats don't normally do any real damage with scratches, but the problem is that once you are at that level, you aren't that far from a bite, and bites, although fairly rare, are always vet issues because they get infected.

 

[mopar4u]

Thanks Art

Clarification - when i said “let #4 out” i meant out of the room she is currently secluded in. None of out cats are allowed outside, no way.

We havent seen clumps of fur nor have i felt any oddities on either.

 

[danteshuman]

The jumping on backs/biting between the shoulders is a dominance thing. So is throw one arm over the cats shoulder followed by grooming then nipping.

My punk terrorized the declawed elderly cat without a tail, while she was alive. Finally it got to the point where he was not allowed within 3 -5 feet of her & they were supervised. The problem was both cats wanted to be the top cat. I wish I had a solution.

I do know 1 on 1 play with the victim cats to build up their confidence helps. Salem is now fighting back after I built up his confidence and there is peace. Also Dante needs to be worn out everyday and get his bird watching hour in every day or he picks on Salem.

 

[mopar4u]

im back, still have same issue except worse.

tried meds with #1, still attacked #4. removed off meds.
tried 2 months of feliway (4 diffusers) with no changes.
#1 was brought to the vet a couple months ago for a general checkup, no issues

we currently have the house divided up where #1 and #4 cant get at eachother, #1 gets to be out during the day then gets put away, #4 gets the night. i feed them face to face in the mornings then divide them back up. now #1 started peeing (not spraying) where #4 sleeps at night. i caught it on video, no sign of straining while peeing. #1 uses her litter box except the few times she peed where #4 slept (all different spots). i scoop the boxes every other day, same unscented litter that weve been using for years. #1 is going to the vet again to make sure no medical issues popped up.

we dont have access to a cat behaviorilst where we live, but we feel this is a pecking order issue that #1 is struggling with. if #1 checks out ok we feel our only option is to remove her from the home. my wife and i dont want to put her in the humane society small cage setup for most of her life, worried that rehoming her would lead to someone treating her bad. we are struggling with this really bad but are at out wits end. sadly we even talked about euthanasia.

help

 

[danteshuman]

Do you have friends or family members that can take one in if you pay for the food and vet care?

 

[mopar4u]

we did rehome her to a friend for a week but their weiner dog has strong hunting tendencies and it didnt work out. no family members need or want a cat.

 

[mopar4u]

i wish there was such thing as a sanctuary we could bring her. id gladly pay a rent to keep her there.

 

[Furballsmom]

What if you get a harness on the aggressor, hold onto it, and every time she starts to go repeatedly make. her. stop. (With gloves in case).
There was another very similar situation and the thread discussion centered on strengthening the victim cat's personality. I'll find it...

 

[Furballsmom]

Prey-predator Dynamic Between Cats
in this case the cats were kept completely separate.

 

[Kelise]

^^That's my thread!

I sort of scanned the thread because it's late here, so apologies if I missed something important.

For me, being able to keep the cats separate has been absolutely critical. My "victim" cat is growing bolder now. The aggressor in my situation really scared the beans out of her to where she was so uncomfortable in the house even without him that she always stayed in my room. Now she comes out into the rest of the house.

I tried medication (Buspirone) for victim cat from my veterinary behaviorist, but it didn't seem like it was working and it was giving her side effects, so I stopped. My veterinary behaviorist believes that making the timid cat more bold makes it a less likely target for a bolder cat's prey drive. I think I agree with him, really. In my case for sure, victim cat's timid behavior is just too tempting for the aggressor, who gets along fine with my other bold cat. But if you have access to a veterinary behaviorist, I would highly recommend. These situations get out of control FAST and having the assistance of a professional gives you the best chance of success (chance of success in these situations is kinda low). The more incidents you have, the less likely the situation is to work out. Practice makes perfect. The more the aggressor practices stalking and attacking the victim cat, the more likely he is to do it again. The more victim cat practices being afraid and running away, the more likely she is to do it again.

Now that victim cat is feeling more confident, I'm going to start slowly trying to get them used to each other. For now I'm going to put up two baby gates on top of each other in the doorway to my bedroom with me and my victim cat on one side and my aggressor on the other. I'm hoping to let them see each other and hopefully get them to play (individually) near each other. So that is what I'm trying.

My advice having dealt with this sort of thing is to be really patient, and go SLOW. Slower than you think you need to. It's not worth it to push your victim cat further than he/she is comfortable going. A timid cat will lose any and all progress in a flash. It took MONTHS for my victim cat to regain her confidence. This whole time, I've had a system where victim cat sleeps with me at night in my room (her home base) while aggressor roams in the house. Victim cat roams during the day (still has access to home base) until about 5 or 6 pm while aggressor is locked in a different room (his home base). Then aggressor gets to roam for the rest of the evening and night.

For me it's been really important for the two cats' "home bases" to be different rooms. My bedroom is victim cat's home base. Aggressor is never allowed in here. The other bedroom in my house is aggressor's home base. Victim cat is never allowed in there. So they each have "territory" and the rest of the house is essentially neutral. I was having problems with victim cat peeing in some spots, but making their home bases 100% separate seems to have stopped that. I make sure not to feed my timid cat in her home base, to make sure she has to come out of her comfort zone sometimes and realize it is safe. I've also been known to temporarily close the door to her home base she is forced to spend some time out of it and realize nothing is going to happen to her. This is done very temporarily, though. It's just not worth it to stress or frighten an already insecure cat. But in her case, this has helped.

Also something that I think helps is allowing them to see each other in safe contexts. For me this is feeding time. Aggressor eats in a small dog crate where he is securely locked in. Once he is locked in, victim cat is let out of her home base and she eats on a counter a couple feet away from where the crate is. They are in direct line of site and able to see each other while they eat, but victim cat knows she is safe. I think this gives the aggressor a chance to see the victim cat acting confidently, which I think could help him not see her as prey so much, because she is no longer acting like prey. This is the only context her ever sees her in except for maybe a glance here and there. I never want him to see her when she is feeling insecure. Only confident.

What my behaviorist taught me is to use cat psychology as best as I can. I can't make victim cat less timid. But I can manipulate situations so she APPEARS less timid to the aggressor. And of course manipulate the situations so that the aggressor never has a chance to practice his aggression, ever. If I never push victim cat past her limits, then she will always appear comfortable and confident. This gives the aggressor less reason to go after her. He currently does it because she acts like prey and it satisfies his natural instinct.

I don't know if any of this helps, but this has been my experience so far. Let me know if you have any questions, I can try to share more. I feel like I'm on a pretty decent path right now. I've been dealing with this situation for several months now (was dealing with it a while before I even made that thread).