I've read all of the articles and would like to start feeding fresh raw!

[bearintheair]

I have a number of questions, but let me first tell you what my male orange tabby, Wally, of 10 months is currently eating.
1. Fussie cat chicken and chicken liver canned. 1 can (2.82) @ 42 cal per day.
2. Party Animal Tom Cat Turkey canned. Half a can (2.75 oz) @ 72 cal per day.
3. Rad Cat Raw Turkey. 3 oz at 100 cal per day

Total cal- 214 per day @ 12 lbs @ 10 months old
I feed 3 meals per day and exercise him 3 times a day as well.

Onto questions!

1. Meat source and maintain/losing weight. His favorite that he's tried is Turkey. He's not very picky about what I give him however. It's quite easy to transition him to different foods. I mix old with new for a day or two, and he's fine with the new food very quickly. That said, I'd prefer a meat source that is lower in fat/calories.

2. Cost. I currently spend about 50 bucks a month on his food. Is buying raw cheaper? Rad cat raw is more expensive per oz than any of the canned foods. Which grocery stores should I be looking at? I live in the Chicago area. (Aurora, IL) I am near a Woodsmans (essentially a huge grocery store that has owner sharing with customers (the formal name of what that's called is escaping me right now). Also nearby is a Cermak (many choices, very odd produce, often visited by the Spanish speaking residents of my city) Trader Joe's is a bit further (maybe 20 min). Also near a Jewel Osco and Aldis. Woodsman is probably the biggest, with Cermak right behind it. I trust Woodsman's a little more just because I go there more frequently. Cermak might be good for more odd varieties though.

3. Do I need to invest in a good grinder? The thought of grinding meat seems a little gross to me but I'm willing if that's my cheapest or only option. I read that there are electric grinders. What brands should I look at (in terms of quality and cost)? Is purchasing pre-ground meat not an option? I read that it's more processed. Any exceptions?

4. Pre mixed supplements. I've read that you can buy pre mixed supplements of taurine, etc. Is this a good option? Is it more expensive than buying the ingredients separately? What are my pros and cons here?

5. I do own a few kitchen scales. One I use for weighing out his current portions measures grams and oz from 0.00 to 600 gram capacity. Will this be fine?

6. Recipes. Are there any that you can recommend to a beginner such as myself?

I'm currently a post bacc student going for a second degree in nursing and am living with my folks. We do have 3 freezers in the house (the one that opens from the top is mine). I store his commercial raw food in daily portions here. I am not working many hours currently, which is why I'm trying to find a more affordable but healthier feeding option for my cat!


Thanks!

Wally thanks you too!

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• bearintheair
• Feb 8, 2017

 

[paiger8]

1. I recommend Hare-Today.com for meat. I buy the boneless pre-ground kind, and it's awesome. Cats' metabolisms are actually different than humans so they don't need a low fat diet. Fat is actually great at helping with constipation in cats. I do a mix of chicken, turkey, and beef. 

2. Buying pre-made raw will not be cheaper. Making your own raw should be cheaper. I buy meat from Hare Today and supplement myself. You can also use a pre-mix such as EZ Complete (more expensive than supplementing yourself, but still cheaper than commercial raw.) I spend around $56 a month for my 2 cats eating 4 oz each a day. So probably around $30 for one cat.

3. You can grind, but it's a pain, IMO. I buy pre-ground from Hare Today. It's ground and flash frozen since it's meant to be fed to pets raw, so no bacteria concern. The bacteria concern is mostly with grocery store ground meat since you never know how often they clean the grinder, and how long its been sitting out.

4. Food Fur Life makes EZ Complete supplement and it's awesome from what I've heard. It will be a little more expensive than supplementing yourself, but cats love it. It's just pre-mix + boneless meat + water. But honestly supplementing yourself is pretty darn easy. Mixing up the supplements takes me maybe 2 minutes, and a bottle of vitamins lasts forever. Using chicken, turkey, and beef from Hare Today + shipping, using EZ Complete worked out to being .36 cents per ounce of food for me, while supplementing myself ended up being .23 cents an ounce. (Obviously depends on how much you order at a time, and where you live, and what meat you buy.) Freezer space is a must if you order in bulk.

5. Depends how much you make at a time. My scale goes up to 11 lbs, but I make like 20 lbs of food at a time and freeze it. It's way easier for me than mixing daily and I don't even know how you could make small batches if supplementing yourself. I know with EZ Complete, you can make daily batches pretty easily since everything is already mixed. 

6. I use the recipe from Feline Nutrition located here.  I just use the boneless substitutions. 

 

[neely]

Rad cat raw is more expensive per oz than any of the canned foods. Which grocery stores should I be looking at? I live in the Chicago area. (Aurora, IL) 

I live on the opposite end of the city, approx. 25 miles north of Chicago - I've been switching over to raw and buy my raw food at Pet People, Bentley's or Kriser's.  I looked up their store locator and there is a Pet People store in Aurora.  Otherwise, I found a Bentley's pet food store in Willowbrook, near St. Charles and a Kriser's pet food store in Naperville.  Are any of these stores near your location in Aurora? They are all extremely helpful and carry a wide variety of raw food brands.  I would suggest calling them for some prices & information.  Hope this helps you. 

 

[bearintheair]

Ok so I saw hare-today. There's also a site mentioned by Feline-nutrition.org called mypetcarnivore.com. It's based in Indiana, and is quite a bit cheaper than hare-today. Also closer, so I'm assuming it'll be less shipping. Also comes in fine-ground option for cats and puppies. Can you tell me what brands of supplements you use? I'm having a hard time finding the right vitamin b complex, vitamin e 400 iu in dry form, etc.
Currently looking at these available items on amazon:

NOW Foods Taurine Pure Powder, 8 ounce
100% Pure Omega 3 Fish Oil for Dogs - 90 Fatty Acid Soft Gels For Skin, Coat & Joints. Reduces Scratching & Shedding. Wild Caught Fish, Better Source of DHA Than Alaskan Salmon.
Solgar Vitamin E 400 IU Alpha Softgels, 100 Count

Solaray B Complex Supplement, 100mg, 100 Count
Morton Salt Lite Salt, Less Sodium, 11 oz (Pack of 1)
Any tips for mixing it all? I'm following the recipe found here: http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/easy-raw-feeding-for-the-busy-person


Here is a supplement recipe for five pounds of pre-ground meat/bones/organs:

8 to 16 oz water, use 16 oz if your cats like it soupier, 8 oz if they like it firmer
4 raw egg yolks
4000 mg taurine
4000 mg wild salmon or wild caught small fish oil
800 IU Vitamin E (use dry form)
200 mg Vitamin B Complex
1 ½ tsp Lite Iodized Salt
4 tsp psyllium husk powder (optional, mostly recommended when your cats are starting out on raw)

Not using the last ingredient since he's on nothing but wet and raw grain free currently.
Tips on how to safely thaw 5 lbs of pre ground meat? ( I usually refrigerate commercial raw overnight, but that's only 1.5 lbs)

How do I calculate calories with all this?

Is it just the yolk of the egg without the white?

Anything else I should know?

 

[LTS3]

Instead of individual supplements, you can make raw with ground meat of your choice and a pre-mix such as EZComplete or Alnutrin. Mix together with some water, portion out into daily portion sizes, and freeze.

Independent pet stores often sell chubs of raw meat. Bravo, Primal, and Blue Rdige are some brands you can typically find. Some are just boneless organless meats while others are meat with bone and organs.

 

[bearintheair]

I'm aware of the mixed supplements. However, id prefer to make it myself. I currently buy rad cat raw food from an independent pet food store. It costs 10-14 dollars for 1.5 lbs. If I order online from the website I mentioned, the same amount of meat would cost me around around 1/4 of that price.

 

[paiger8]

My Pet Carnivore didn't carry boneless muscle meat (which is all I use) when I was looking at them, so I decided against that. Figuring out bone ratios was something I didn't want to mess with. Grinds like chicken are super boney so you have to add boneless meat to balance out the mix. I chose not to mess with that. Plus, one of my cats gets constipated with too much bone.

Yes, it's just the yolks. I usually save the whites and make myself a couple egg white omelettes after I make their food. 

I use:

Vitamin E 
Taurine: 
Fish Oil: 
B Complex: 
I use the Lite Salt, and also add eggshell powder for calcium instead of the bone. I just make the eggshell powder myself. The gel caps of the Vitamin E are fine. It even says so on that site. The only reason the dry are recommended is so you can just open the powder and don't have to squeeze the Vitamin E gel out of the capsules. I just snip the end with scissors and squeeze it into the mixing bowl with the other supplements. I mix all the supplements first, add water, then add all the meat and organs. 

I either thaw in the fridge (usually thaws in 2-ish days) if I'm prepared, or throw it in the sink with cold water if I'm trying to thaw it faster. If you thaw it in the fridge, put the bags in some sort of pan, because they will leak and meat juice will get everywhere. 

The psyllium husk powder is generally for cats that have been on kibble and are brand new to raw. If your cat eats all raw now, you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[bearintheair]

Thanks for the response! How do you make the eggshell powder? And do you feed any sort of raw bone for dental health?

Yeah I'm going back to hare-today. My pet carnivore shipping costs are astronomical. They ship it to a nearby gas station near me so I have to go pick it up if I buy there! They recommend (demand) buying 100 lbs at a time. I don't have that much freeze space. Haha

 

[LTS3]

I'm aware of the mixed supplements. However, id prefer to make it myself. I currently buy rad cat raw food from an independent pet food store. It costs 10-14 dollars for 1.5 lbs. If I order online from the website I mentioned, the same amount of meat would cost me around around 1/4 of that price.

You can buy ground meat for raw pet food use in independent pet stores. Bravo, Primal Pet and Blue Rdige are three brands that sell chubs / rolls of meat. I have a local store that sells chubs of Hare-Today meat. It's just easier for me to go to the pet store and buy chubs as needed than to buy the minimum requirement from an online place (I think Hare Today has a minimum 10 lb order) because my freezer space is limited.

 

[paiger8]

Thanks for the response! How do you make the eggshell powder? And do you feed any sort of raw bone for dental health?

Yeah I'm going back to hare-today. My pet carnivore shipping costs are astronomical. They ship it to a nearby gas station near me so I have to go pick it up if I buy there! They recommend (demand) buying 100 lbs at a time. I don't have that much freeze space. Haha

Eggshell powder is super easy. Just take eggshells, rinse them, bake them in the oven at 300 F for 20-ish minutes, crunch them up and grind them with a coffee grinder till it's a really fine powder. I tried using a food processor at first, but it didn't get them to enough of a powder, so I bought a cheap coffee grinder. Just store the extra powder in your cupboard.

I don't do any raw bone - mainly because my cats wouldn't do anything with it. I just brush their teeth occasionally with a finger brush. 

 

[bearintheair]

Hmm ok! How many eggshells do you grind at a time? Also, I regularly bake eggs--can I just use the shells of these as I eat them? Haha

 

[paiger8]

Yep - you can actually just rinse them and store them in the cupboard until you're ready to grind. Just crunch them up and fill a grinder - I'm not sure how many at a time mine grinds, I just fill it full and repeat.

 

[bethanney]

This is such a great thread -- I've had all the same questions! The gang at EZ Complete will send you a sample for $1 that makes a few servings of raw. My 16 year old guy loves it; my younger cat hasn't taken to raw as easily. I have a locally-owned pet store that stocks the raw chubbs but I just used the EZ Complete sample with chicken thighs cut in chunks.
My old guy is in the beginning stages of ckd. He's thin and likes to eat every few hours. I've been feeding him canned supplemented with raw since his diagnosis. I think all raw would be more beneficial than the canned.

 

[jazzyp]

This is such a great thread -- I've had all the same questions! The gang at EZ Complete will send you a sample for $1 that makes a few servings of raw. My 16 year old guy loves it; my younger cat hasn't taken to raw as easily. I have a locally-owned pet store that stocks the raw chubbs but I just used the EZ Complete sample with chicken thighs cut in chunks.
My old guy is in the beginning stages of ckd. He's thin and likes to eat every few hours. I've been feeding him canned supplemented with raw since his diagnosis. I think all raw would be more beneficial than the canned.

Thanks for the suggestion of EZ Complete!  I'm trying to get all my pets off kibble, with an eye toward raw, and this company looks wonderful.  

 

[bearintheair]

How much of the Vitamin B Complex do you use per 5 lbs batches? I'm confused as to how much I should be using! Do I weigh it out?

 

[paiger8]

It should say on the side of the bottle how many milligrams are in each pill. I follow this recipe. You just need to figure out how much you're making vs. the recipe and adjust accordingly. For instance if the recipe calls for 3 lbs of boneless meat, and you're using 5 lbs of boneless... you would divide 5/3 = 1.67 .... so you'd multiply all ingredients (supplements, eggshell, water and organs) by 1.67 to get how much you would need. 

 

[bearintheair]

Right I understand that, but with vitamin B complex it's a mixture of different vitamin B types. Unlike a bottle of say, vitamin B 12, it doesn't give you a certain amount of milligrams. Instead, it may say "300 mg of B13, 200 mg of B4,".., etc. This tells me that I would have to empty the capsule and weigh out 200 mg in this case, according to the feline nutrition recipe.

I also would like to add lysine to the recipe. I'm not sure how much to add!