Is this a good raw recipe?

[clary7]

So I learned recently how bad dry food is for cats, and also that not all canned food is that great. I feed mine a mix of both dry and canned right now because I can’t afford fully canned yet. However I’ve been doing research and found a raw recipe that someone posted on YouTube that ends up being even cheaper than friskies canned food (which is like the cheapest of the cheap canned food).
I want to ask if this recipe is good though before i start using it. If it’s a balanced recipe, I will absolutely switch to a 100% raw diet because it’s healthier and also because of how cheap it is, and because it seems that cats eat less raw food than canned food, so that makes it even better form the financial side of things. Plus it includes eggs, and I have chickens, so that already saves me a little money too. I don’t want it to be one of those ‘too good to be true’ situations though.
Here is the link to the recipe:
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The YouTube video breaks down the cost of it all but I won’t link it only because the video is 30 minutes long.

But anyways, I’d love to get some opinions on this recipe before I go out and start buying the ingredients and switching my cats over.

 

[Tobermory]

Yes, feline-nutrition.org is a very reputable site for raw feeders. I’ve used that recipe and a lot of other info from the site. There’s the initial cost of the supplements, but they last a long time and end up being both cost effective and a healthy choice for kitties, in my opinion.

 

[clary7]

Yay that’s good to hear! I just told my mom that I want to switch them over to raw since it’s cheaper than I thought and she went right over to the freezer and started pulling a bunch of raw chicken for me to use. We own chickens and sometimes have to butcher them faster than we can eat them (I don’t eat meat but my family does and we sometimes have too much leftovers). We also have a place that sells organs and other meat for low prices. So now all I have to do is order the supplements! I’m super excited to start this now. Hoping if it turns out worthwhile I can switch my dogs over to raw as well. I’ve been learning so much about the horrors of manufactured pet food. Seems like it’s so much easier to just make your own feed these days now if you want to make sure your pets eat healthy.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi
The initial website page states that the recipe may not be good for cats with kidney disease, etc. Am I assuming correctly that there's too much phosphorus?

 

[Maurey]

Hi
The initial website page states that the recipe may not be good for cats with kidney disease, etc. Am I assuming correctly that there's too much phosphorus?

Yes. Cats with kidney disease need bone-free raw. Typically that’s achieved with eggshell calcium.

 

[daftcat75]

That’s a good recipe. But I don’t recommend going 100% raw. At least not at first. Mistakes will be made as you learn to do it. You may run into supply (can’t get some ingredient), production (forgot to make a new batch before the old one ran out), or demand (cats don’t like it or don’t like it enough) issues. A canned backup makes sure they remain fed and nourished while you are getting your food-making operation in order. The other reason why I recommend keeping a canned backup in their diet is to make it easier for others to feed your cats if you have a sitter or they need to be hospitalized. Sitters can be trained how to handle and feed raw. Vets will likely object.

 

[Furballsmom]

Thank you, Maurey

 

[Box of Rain]

A couple of thoughts.

One is that, unless there was a special need to do so (such as a cat having no teeth) I would personally prefer not to grind the meat and bone. In my estimation allowing a cat to tear flesh and chomp appropriate bone-in pieces is optimal for maintaining good dental health. It helps keep teeth clean and the act of chewing helps make the whole dental structure (teeth, gums, bones, and surrounding muscles) very strong over time. Periodontal disease is a huge issue with cats (and dogs) and my experience leads me to believe that one of the major factors is that our pets' are not required to chew their food. It is the old aphorism "use it, or lose it."

Add to the equation the fact that grinders are not generally rated for grinding bone and that they are costly.

If the cost added to a cat's health, that would be one thing. But I believe grinding food is less optimal that not doing so.

I'm also convinced (as a result of watching my cat's behavior) that that eating "prey-like" meals is good for their mental health. They need to figure how to approach more challenging meals and one can observe the "lion-like" behaviors (with exhibitions of pride in the accomplishments).

I don't make every meal "challenging" by serving pieces more "whole," but I do try to make such meals part of the mix. And even easier meals are not ground.

I have not analysed this recipe to see if it targets the approx 6% bone ratio (plus 5% liver and 5% other secreting organ ratios) or not, but I'd want to do due diligence.

An issue with "recipes" is that they can lock people into serving a very narrow range of proteins and organs. Again, unless there are reasons to do so (such as allergy issues) my preference is to use PRM ratios with a broadly diverse number of taurine-rich proteins and organ sources as possible.

These are "fine-point" criticisms--as eating even a ground raw diet is far preferable to standard commercial food in my estimation--but something to consider before the purchase of an expensive meat grinder.

Bill

 

[Maurey]

A couple of thoughts.

One is that, unless there was a special need to do so (such as a cat having no teeth) I would personally prefer not to grind the meat and bone. In my estimation allowing a cat to tear flesh and chomp appropriate bone-in pieces is optimal for maintaining good dental health. It helps keep teeth clean and the act of chewing helps make the whole dental structure (teeth, gums, bones, and surrounding muscles) very strong over time. Periodontal disease is a huge issue with cats (and dogs) and my experience leads me to believe that one of the major factors is that our pets' are not required to chew their food. It is the old aphorism "use it, or lose it."

Add to the equation the fact that grinders are not generally rated for grinding bone and that they are costly.

If the cost added to a cat's health, that would be one thing. But I believe grinding food is less optimal that not doing so.

I'm also convinced (as a result of watching my cat's behavior) that that eating "prey-like" meals is good for their mental health. They need to figure how to approach more challenging meals and one can observe the "lion-like" behaviors (with exhibitions of pride in the accomplishments).

I don't make every meal "challenging" by serving pieces more "whole," but I do try to make such meals part of the mix. And even easier meals are not ground.

I have not analysed this recipe to see if it targets the approx 6% bone ratio (plus 5% liver and 5% other secreting organ ratios) or not, but I'd want to do due diligence.

An issue with "recipes" is that they can lock people into serving a very narrow range of proteins and organs. Again, unless there are reasons to do so (such as allergy issues) my preference is to use PRM ratios with a broadly diverse number of taurine-rich proteins and organ sources as possible.

These are "fine-point" criticisms--as eating even a ground raw diet is far preferable to standard commercial food in my estimation--but something to consider before the purchase of an expensive meat grinder.

Bill

Feeding only large chunks is awesome, but also impractical if you want to make large batches. I use a grinder with two sawed off blades and a plate with three large holes to cut my chicken heads and the bulk of my meats and organs into small chunks. The only thing I cut by hand is chicken necks and stomachs (if they’re big enough to need it) so my cats have something to chew. I find that the most practical solution.

 

[Box of Rain]

Feeding only large chunks is awesome, but also impractical if you want to make large batches. I use a grinder with two sawed off blades and a plate with three large holes to cut my chicken heads and the bulk of my meats and organs into small chunks. The only thing I cut by hand is chicken necks and stomachs (if they’re big enough to need it) so my cats have something to chew. I find that the most practical solution.

View attachment 433689

Which is why I refrain from making large batches.

We all have our trade-offs. I happen to be a person who has loves to cook and likes doing food prep (and isn't squeamish) so I breakdown big pieces by hand, then freeze them on trays, then transfer to zip locks (and back to the freezer until they need to be used).

This works for me. It might not work for all.

I do see the advantages of working up to serving larger pieces and more challenging bone-in pieces over time as a huge positive for cats. Maintaining a strong dental structure is actually one of the premier reasons I choose doing a raw diet for both my cat and my dog.

I'm convinced that chewing, gnawing, and tearing helps maintain dental health and that only happens if cats get meals that meet those needs, as I see it.

Life has compromises that people need to weigh for themselves.

Bill

 

[clary7]

Well I already have a meat grinder, so it's not really a big factor for me financially to not grind their meat.

Because of the benefits you mentioned, I really like the idea of feeding raw food exactly how it is without grinding it up, but like Maurey mentioned, it's a bit too impractical for me. I have 5 cats and in addition to the extra space it would take up, I also cant exactly split up the nutrients perfectly between the 5 without micromanaging their feeding times, which I just don't have the time or patience for.

I'm also not sure how I'd be able to feed plain chicken bones to cats? Aren't they too big?

But the good things is (or it could be a bad thing, depending on how you look at this) my cats are all 'technically' barn cats. My parents got the first few to be barn cats, but eventually I got more and took them all under my wing and I hang out with them all the time. But they do have to live outside due to my dads allergies. So they have lots of fun chasing bugs and lizards around. They catch rodents too which I'm sure helps with their dental health since they have the opportunity to chew on actual whole meals. So at least they get to do that.

But yeah, if I only had one cat I would totally skip the grinding. It would be a whole extra step I could avoid. Once I'm able to switch my dogs over to raw, I most likely will be feeding them whole bones and meat as well, since I only have two of them and they are fed separately so it's way easier to manage. But with the cat's in a bit more complicated

 

[Maurey]

I'm also not sure how I'd be able to feed plain chicken bones to cats? Aren't they too big?

You can feed whole chicken necks and heads without issues to most cats, fwiw, but I totally understand where you’re coming from.

You could offer dental treats a couple times a week, if you’d like, like whole chicken necks or gizzards if you’d like to work their jaws a bit more

My two cats eat a pound a day between them, and with my work schedule, making small batches is impractical. As I mentioned in my previous post, I make fine chunk raw just fine with a specialized plate and modified knife, and give Them something to chew with large bits of chicken gizzard and neck.

 

[clary7]

You could offer dental treats a couple times a week, if you’d like, like whole chicken necks or gizzards if you’d like to work their jaws a bit more

That sounds like a great idea! I'll probably start doing that once I get into the hang of raw feeding.

 

[Box of Rain]

Well I already have a meat grinder, so it's not really a big factor for me financially to not grind their meat.

Because of the benefits you mentioned, I really like the idea of feeding raw food exactly how it is without grinding it up, but like Maurey mentioned, it's a bit too impractical for me. I have 5 cats and in addition to the extra space it would take up, I also cant exactly split up the nutrients perfectly between the 5 without micromanaging their feeding times, which I just don't have the time or patience for.

I'm also not sure how I'd be able to feed plain chicken bones to cats? Aren't they too big?

But the good things is (or it could be a bad thing, depending on how you look at this) my cats are all 'technically' barn cats. My parents got the first few to be barn cats, but eventually I got more and took them all under my wing and I hang out with them all the time. But they do have to live outside due to my dads allergies. So they have lots of fun chasing bugs and lizards around. They catch rodents too which I'm sure helps with their dental health since they have the opportunity to chew on actual whole meals. So at least they get to do that.

But yeah, if I only had one cat I would totally skip the grinding. It would be a whole extra step I could avoid. Once I'm able to switch my dogs over to raw, I most likely will be feeding them whole bones and meat as well, since I only have two of them and they are fed separately so it's way easier to manage. But with the cat's in a bit more complicated

Sounds like you are making very reasonable choices here--we all make some compromises--and as you own a grinder the added expense is off the table. I make a compromise by trying to "emulate" prey. Barn cats make their own opportunities.

Bone-in chicken pieces for the dogs (as part of an overall menu) work quite well as a source of raw soft edible bone.

Bill

 

[clary7]

I think it's super awesome that you put so much effort into how you feed your cats. If just all cats could get such awesome meal times! Thanks for sharing about how you do it. Helps me understand cats even better now.

 

[Box of Rain]

You can feed whole chicken necks and heads without issues to most cats, fwiw, but I totally understand where you’re coming from.

You could offer dental treats a couple times a week, if you’d like, like whole chicken necks or gizzards if you’d like to work their jaws a bit more

My two cats eat a pound a day between them, and with my work schedule, making small batches is impractical. As I mentioned in my previous post, I make fine chunk raw just fine with a specialized plate and modified knife, and give Them something to chew with large bits of chicken gizzard and neck.

Yes, these are nice options for "dental treats."

Depending on availability, chicken feet are another nice dental treat. As are sectioned chicken wings.

Also, I've discovered stores in my area that sell 4 packs of quail (Gallegos) that can be sectioned into dental treats.

Bill

 

[clary7]

Yes, these are nice options for "dental treats."

Depending on availability, chicken feet are another nice dental treat. As are sectioned chicken wings.

Also, I've discovered stores in my area that sell 4 packs of quail (Gallegos) that can be sectioned into dental treats.

Bill

We often have chicken and duck feet from when my dad butchers them (they dont get butchered too often but right now my dad is in the process of culling like ten of them because we have too many roosters and drakes), but I always give the feet to my dogs to eat. A few days ago I did give my cats a duck foot for a few minutes but they seemed a bit confused about what to do with it. Im not sure if it was just because duck feet arent the best for cats, but I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around giving my cats chicken feet lol I have two dogs (one medium, one xl) and it takes both of them a good while to chew the chicken feet and eat them, so I'm trying to imagine my cats doing that... Would it be just for them to chew on, or to actually eat?

 

[Box of Rain]

We often have chicken and duck feet from when my dad butchers them (they dont get butchered too often but right now my dad is in the process of culling like ten of them because we have too many roosters and drakes), but I always give the feet to my dogs to eat. A few days ago I did give my cats a duck foot for a few minutes but they seemed a bit confused about what to do with it. Im not sure if it was just because duck feet arent the best for cats, but I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around giving my cats chicken feet lol I have two dogs (one medium, one xl) and it takes both of them a good while to chew the chicken feet and eat them, so I'm trying to imagine my cats doing that... Would it be just for them to chew on, or to actually eat?

With chicken feet, I started by splitting them lengthwise (when he was a newbie), then scoring them across the bones when he progressed, and finally the evolved into a champion bone destroyer and chicken feet became "child's play." LOL

What I have witnessed with both my cat and my dog is that the strength of their jaws and dental structures increases rather dramatically as they have the opportunity to eat appropriate bone-in pieces.

What's "appropriate" can/will shift depending on what they can deal with, so best to adjust accordingly.

Watching them get strong via this sort of feeding affirms my belief that chewing/tearing/etc is something that is promoted by feeding appropriate bone.

I've mented in other threads that I took my Vizsla for his first wellness visit since the pandemic recently. Our vet, who is fantastic IMO and who has breed specific knowledge (she owed my dog's grandsire), is not a raw feeding advocate; however, she was blown away by his overall condition and especially by the health of his teeth and gums.

Most dogs (like cats) develop periodontal disease. To the point where dental issues are almost expected. I'm convinced this can be mitigated--if not eliminated completely--by serving an appropriate diet.

Bill

 

[clary7]

Aaah okay, got it.

Honestly I hear so many stories of people who feed responsible raw diets shocking their vets by how healthy their pets are. It's just a testament to how good it is!

I'm excited for the change and will definitely be incorporating some of this into my cats diets.

 

[Box of Rain]

Aaah okay, got it.

Honestly I hear so many stories of people who feed responsible raw diets shocking their vets by how healthy their pets are. It's just a testament to how good it is!

I'm excited for the change and will definitely be incorporating some of this into my cats diets.

Our vet had reasonable concerns. I recall that we went for our first visit when our pup was 10 weeks old (or so) and I mentioned I was raw feeding.

I remember the vet had a visceral reaction and blurted out something about the importance of maintaining the need for proper mineral balance for growing pups.

I had an immediate answer for her. That I'd reviewed the findings of the National Research Council (which is the world's leading authority on animal nutrition, and whose recommendations are used by AFFCO as their standards) and that my feeding plan was based on providing a 1.2:1 Calcium to Phosphorus ratio, unless she had other advice.

One she saw that I wasn't just "winging it," we've never had another conversation where I've experienced "skepticism." In fact--without endorsing raw feeding--more that one she's remarked what fantastic condition my Vizsla is in, and that "what ever you are going, keep it up."

I find that validating.

I also know what a huge difference feeding PMR has made over the past 8+ years.

I didn't go into it without some trepidations. I did not want to make a big mistake based on faulty "internet" knowledge.

Rather I'm convinced this was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Really.

Bill