Introductions - dominance behaviour? Advice needed please! (long)

[epona]

Right there has obviously been some sort of misunderstanding here, and I want to set a few things straight, as I'm finding this thread is being more upsetting than helpful at this point.

1) The 2 cats concerned have met each other for a complete total of around 5 minutes over the last 3 days.

2) They have never at any point been unattended, in fact we have both been standing right next to them the entire time.

3) As soon as Radar pounces or a tail swishes, they are separated.

4) We are NOT 'letting' the cat beat up the kitten. I don't know WHERE this idea has come from, it is simply NOT TRUE.

5) The first thing that happened when they met last night was that Radar chased Sonic under the bed. Sonic ran out the other side, and we picked him up and separated them.

6) If Sonic hisses, we separate them. If Radar pounces, we separate them. Radar has not at any point put his ears back, hissed, growled, bitten, or had his claws out - they have been retracted the entire time.

Is this becoming clearer now, for those of you who think we are letting a kitten get hurt?

Now please can we stick to having some useful suggestions (such as playing with them with a toy - thank you for that idea), and leave these ridiculous claims that we are letting a kitten be hurt or bullied out of it?

Thank you.

 

[katiemae1277]

I'd just like to point out that i bring new cats into my house ALL THE TIME, practically once a month, and I do have a bully in my house, or at least a kitty that likes to play rough, and they have worked things out on their own, with a few fights in between, but no one has ever gotten hurt, sometimes the younger ones have gotten in a little over their head, and that is when I step in and be referee, but I have never had anyone shed blood, get injured, or be emotionally scarred. Epona and Nate are doing the best they can, Radar's a spunky little boy, but to say that they are allowing him to beat Sonic up? I think that's totally false. Some cats play rough, and they need to be told how to rein it in. Epona and Nate have received some excellent advice here, but every intro is going to be different, and they can only take this one day at a time, but to keep Sonic constantly separated from Radar is not the path to take IMO.

 

[neetanddave]

I agree Katie. I have read enough of their posts to know that they are monitoring things well and just making sure they don't let things get out of hand.

Epona and Nate,

to you two. You have done nothing wrong, you are just concerned.

The Feliway should help, and time will certainly be a big help. Letting them spend small amounts of time together, gradually increasing it. If you have one of the wand toys they can swat at together, just make sure they don't cross paths too much as they leap. And a laser pointer, if you have one. Those are great fun for them, and they can take turns with it.... or play together as they team up to chase down the beam.

Also, if you can pet one and then run your hands across the the other so they can swap smells, that helps too.

 

[momofmany]

Radar might be bigger, but he is still a kitten himself! Everything you've described about him indicates that he is trying to play. Some of his behavior does indicate dominance (rolling on his back with arms outreached), but that is the norm when bringing in a kitten to a resident house cat.

I think that the 2 of them just don't know how to play with each other yet. Every cat has its own style of play and because they are both kittens, they just have to figure it out between them.

Perhaps you should try playing with Radar when you bring Sonic out. If you have a laser pointer, wand toy, or something interactive, distract him with that toy and let Sonic see that Radar is all about play.

They sound adorable!!

 

[gailuvscats]

[OK well I don't think this is so good. Tonight ended up with Sonic wailing, screaming, hissing, and terrified with his heart rate racing.

Radar will not leave him be for a second. We just let them at it for ages, but Sonic ended up so distressed and afraid that we had to separate them, he really was terrified, trying to run away and find a safe hiding place with Radar chasing him and leaping. Radar was in hunting mode with his tail swishing.

It was horrible and frightening and distressing to watch. I don't know what to do next /QUOTE]

Especially at that exact moment when there are 2 cats rolling around on the floor and you aren't quite sure whether there will be 'tears before bedtime'

[QUOTE Radar grabbed him and pinned him to the floor, batting his head. Radar backed off, and Sonic stayed low to the ground. Radar watched. Sonic stood up and started to walk away. Radar again grabbed him, pinning him down and batting him. Then there was a bit of a wrestle, there were no claws or teeth involved, just rolling around on the floor grabbing each other. Radar backed off again. This happened a few times, Radar starting it every time Sonic stood up.
]

The above quotes from your posts led me to believe, and probably a few others, that things sounded a bit shakey, and we were trying to help you. I certainly did not mean to offend you, and I was just trying to assist you with this introduction. I told you of my experience which worked very well for me, and a lot of my info is what I learned from the stickies on this forum.
I think you can see how we misunderstood. I hope you do try my suggestions, because I have had success with them.

 

[larke]

I'm sorry also... there was just something in 1-2 of your earlier notes that sounded as if (whether you were 'present' or not) Radar had gotten the best of Sonic and it was serious - maybe you hadn't realized how it came across either (doncha love the internet!). I've intro'd loads of cats to each other over many years, and sat and watched plenty of scraps, etc., but some particular one you described just sounded a little scary, but if it's just more a matter of Radar showing who's boss and being macho, and Sonic (rightly so) being 'chicken' at this stage, then that's great!

 

[urbantigers]

How are things with Sonic and Radar now, Epona/Nate?

I'm sure things will settle down in time, esp when Sonic gets a bit bigger and more confident.

 

[epona]

Thanks everyone, I understand how my earlier posts could have been misinterpreted

Radar has gone and got conjunctivitis (unrelated to interactions with Sonic, he woke up Thursday late afternoon with puffy eyelids) so they haven't had any further interaction as we wanted to get him to the vet and see what she said before letting them together again in case it could be passed on to Sonic. He's got eyedrops and vet said it should be fine to let them interact, so we will give them at least a couple of minutes together later today with some toys to play with and us standing over them!

The vet also agreed that it sounded as if Radar just wanted to play, he's still a little kitten at heart, if not physically, and to monitor them very closely and intervene if and when Sonic is unhappy. She also suggested putting one in the carrier and feeding the other in front of it, and then swapping them over, and to feed them like this for a while to help them get used to one another, so we will be doing that as of today.

 

[sar]

Oh poor Radar! I hope his eyes heal nice and quickly and you can continue with your introductions

One thing that I would suggest is to learn both Radar's and Sonic's reactions - I'm sure you're already doing this - so that you can tell if rough play will happen

It's pretty easy to pick up on with each meeting.

When I got Molly (tiny wee fuzz ball that she was), Tibby was still only about 6 months old (a big lad at that!) and he saw her as a special toy for him!

He was rather rough with her, but she could give back as good as she got. (I didn't know about the 'proper introduction process' at the time, but separated as and when necessary and everything panned out wonderfully! Tibby and Molly are the best of friends and neither got hurt

I think you and Nate are doing great and things will work out, I assure you