Indoor or outdoor cats just a question

[lizita]

I always get lovely "gifts" from Floss-mice, rats, birds and her avourite is frogs-live though.

I'm sure you know this already but eating rats and other small creatures can lead to diseases and a number of different parasites. If you do let your cat go outside it's very important that they are on flea and tick preventative and are dewormed regularly. Eating the insides of certain animals can lead to tapeworm which is not treated by regular dewormers so you should also have regular fecals done.

One of the biggest risks to outside cats are cars and cars are everywhere, including the UK. I've lived in both the US and in Sweden and although the dangers are different in some respects it is always dangerous for cats to be roaming outside everywhere.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Ruthyb

I think we are all guilty on hee of spoiling our kitties rotten.x

I know you didn't mean this in a negative way, but my cats are not spoiled, or rotten, they are loved and cared for. Spoiled means to ruin and my cats are sweet and friendly and nice, not ruined at all. It's just a pet peeve of mine, that expression.

By the same token, letting a cat out who cries to get out could possibly be considered spoiling. Giving in to pleas for something that is bad for them, because they beg, is more what I consider spoiling.

That was off topic, back on topic now.

I was thinking about this last night. My cats are the delight of my life. If they were out running around (not even talking about all the risks and dangers now, plus the fact that I would never be able to take a calm breath if I did not know where they were and that they were safe every second of the day)...if my cats were outside all the time, I would not have the deep bonds with them that I do have.

In my opinion, people who let their cats out to roam for all hours miss out on a lot that living with a cat means.

If they were outside, they would not be inside playing Games with me. I would not know that when Tolly goes to sit by the Play House that he wants me to toss his mouse up there, so he can leap up and catch it. I would not experience the pleasure of watching him play his own "Chase the Mouse Down the Stairs and Bring it Back Up and Chase it down Again" Game that he plays every night by himself, and how happy he is dashing around and singing, while he plays it.

Or that Jennie's favorite Game is to chase her String on my bed, or have had the pleasure of seeing when she discovered that if she keeps her claws in she can actually slide across the sheets. And her Joy in discovering that and the fun she has.

I wouldn't know that Mazy has a unique quirk in her personality: she loves to relocate objects and put them under my desk. She only does this when I am not home, but I always come home to find funny things under my desk. Hats, gloves, vacuum cleaner attachments, socks....even my raincoat has been under there a couple of times.

If they were outside, they would not be sleeping on my chest while I read on the couch, purring on my lap while I type on the computer, winding around my feet as I do household chores, talking to and interacting with me and with each other all the day long. I can't imagine not having that. For their companionship is why they are here in the first place.

AND, just as important, if they went outside, I would not be able to keep a close watch on their bathroom habits and health. Knowing their bathroom habits can be an easy way to find out something is going wrong, sooner rather than later. When Mazy had her first and second, and then third UTI (finally properly diagnosed) I knew it immediately because I saw her straining in the litter box. Jennie too, when she began peeing blood, I knew right away, because I saw the blood and also I knew that she was having constipation problems so I was able to get to the problem before serious health issues developed.

yes indeed, to each his own methods, but I will never understand why anyone would let their cats outside to roam "free". Leaving them exposed to such risk is not freedom, in my mind.

 

[ut0pia]

Originally Posted by otto

By the same token, letting a cat out who cries to get out could possibly be considered spoiling. Giving in to pleas for something that is bad for them, because they beg, is more what I consider spoiling.

Letting your kitty outside is exactly that though!! At least my Jake begs and begs to be taken out, we used to let him in the yard in the summer every weekend and he still hasn't forgotten, every Saturday he wakes up everyone at 7 am meowing loudly at the front door...

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by ut0pia

Letting your kitty outside is exactly that though!! At least my Jake begs and begs to be taken out, we used to let him in the yard in the summer every weekend and he still hasn't forgotten, every Saturday he wakes up everyone at 7 am meowing loudly at the front door...

Yes, that's what I am saying. Just because a cat begs to go out does not mean it is good for him, and so that, letting him out when he begs, is what I would consider spoiling.

Spoiling is not: feeding them the best foods one can afford, or warming the food, or crawling on the floor to play, or sitting in another chair, because the cat is in the one you want or giving them every comfort and as much love as one has to give. That's not spoiling, that's love.

Spoiling is giving them food that is bad for them because they beg for it, or as I already said, letting them out simply because they beg.

I will concede that there are some cats who will just not ever be made into indoor cats. But most will adjust with time and proper handling.

As far as the bond thing I was talking about, maybe it's easier not to worry about the dangers, or care about a bond, if one isn't that close to the cat to begin with. Can one get very bonded with a cat who spends most of his time roaming outside? I don't know, can't say, because my cats are indoor cats, and will always be indoor cats.

(with, as stated before, the exception that they are harness trained and brought out into a fenced yard, with me, on nice days, not because I think they "need to be outside" but because it is a way for me to work in and enjoy my yard and garden and be with them at the same time

)

 

[johnny gsx-r]

I will stand by my decission to let him out, he paws the door to go out, moans at me......clearly its something HE wants to do and i'm not going to treat him like an ornament adorning my window cill.
A domesticated cat is merely a slightly tamed version of a natural predator, anyone who cannot understand that is surely simple

Of course i don't wish him to pass on at 5yrs, what a ridiculous comment, my friend had an outdoor until she was 23yrs and i'd love to know where you people get your statistics from.
Please also bear in mind some of us work full time and when the weather is nice he doesn't WANT to stuck in the house for 8hrs a day.
I bought him because i could give him a good loving home and by that i mean NOT trapping in the house like a prisoner.
He does get interactive play regularly and his true hunter instinct is blatantly obvious, yet again it shows that a 'DOMESTIC' cat is NOT one with an inbuilt acceptance to live in your home, they learn to tollerate people.
People on this site have mentioned 'scruffing' ... yet another natural response from a wild animal which has accepted to live around humans.

I rest my case.

 

[ldg]

Originally Posted by Johnny GSX-R

A domesticated cat is merely a slightly tamed version of a natural predator, anyone who cannot understand that is surely simple

...He does get interactive play regularly and his true hunter instinct is blatantly obvious, yet again it shows that a 'DOMESTIC' cat is NOT one with an inbuilt acceptance to live in your home, they learn to tollerate people....

As I posted earlier...

Originally Posted by LDG

The fact of the matter is that cats have been a domesticated animal for around 10,000 years. Felis Catus that is not of a specific breed gene pool is "domestic short hair" or "domestic long hair." !!!!! They have a symbiotic relationship with humans, and while they can be great at surviving on their own, they continue time and again to worm their way into our hearts, our lives and our homes, because it is their nature to do so. They are independent animals, but they live with humans, and thus we can decide to protect them.

The only reason that cats in the wild need a lot of space is hunting territory. They hunker down in very small spaces to sleep or raise kittens. The feral mom that raised four of the kittens that now live with us had them in a groundhog den. Cats do not require space - they require ACTIVITY.

I hardly think keeping a cat indoors is holding it prisoner. Keeping a cat indoors without proper stimulation is cruel, yes. But adult cats NATURALLY sleep 16 - 20 hours a day, so being "stuck" indoors for 8 hours a day is a good snooze. Being fed, they don't require hunting territory. Of course we need to stimulate them, and engaging them in activity that promotes the stimulation of their hunter instincts is important to their happiness - but it does not need to happen outside.

I understand why people want to let their cats out. We choose not to - too many dangers, as many have already listed in this thread.

...But to condemn those of us that keep our kitties indoors only as jailers is just wrong, sorry.

Thinking a cat isn't or can't be happy indoors only to me is just as uneducated as believing that cats shouldn't be spayed or neutered because they'll "miss out" on something.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Johnny GSX-R

I will stand by my decission to let him out, he paws the door to go out, moans at me......clearly its something HE wants to do and i'm not going to treat him like an ornament adorning my window cill.
A domesticated cat is merely a slightly tamed version of a natural predator, anyone who cannot understand that is surely simple

Of course i don't wish him to pass on at 5yrs, what a ridiculous comment, my friend had an outdoor until she was 23yrs and i'd love to know where you people get your statistics from.
Please also bear in mind some of us work full time and when the weather is nice he doesn't WANT to stuck in the house for 8hrs a day.
I bought him because i could give him a good loving home and by that i mean NOT trapping in the house like a prisoner.
He does get interactive play regularly and his true hunter instinct is blatantly obvious, yet again it shows that a 'DOMESTIC' cat is NOT one with an inbuilt acceptance to live in your home, they learn to tollerate people.
People on this site have mentioned 'scruffing' ... yet another natural response from a wild animal which has accepted to live around humans.

I rest my case.

Actually cats do not "learn to tolerate people". Cats seek people out. Ask anyone who has rescued a stray. Cats are capable of deep emotional attachment to people.


I don't think anyone (including me) was trying to make you feel defensive, we're all just sharing our opinions, there is no need for name calling.

However, it was you yourself who said if your cat only lived five years it would be enough, as long as the years were spent how you think he wants to spend them:

Maybe i am wrong here but if he lives until 5yrs then he's had a very very happy exciting 5yrs and not a simple existence on a couch.

 

[strange_wings]

I have a little black girl kitty that I took in back in August. Sure she loved catching and mutilating whatever she could get her claws on, but she is also very allergic to insect bites and looked terrible.
She's content inside and hasn't even once looked at any door in interest. ...I can't say the same for my plate, though.

I'm not mistreating my cats for keeping them in, and eventually most of them will be allowed outside. BUT they will never be allowed to roam free for reason's I've already pointed out.

 

[johnny gsx-r]

I didn't say it would be enough

.... where did i say that?

What i was saying was that IF he only managed that length then i could be reassured it was a fun filled '5'.
He has a routine , has had since he was young, he mooches in the rear gardens and comes back either when he is ready or when i call him.

I think i'll call it a day on this one, there's clearly mixed beliefs on this subject.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Johnny GSX-R

I didn't say it would be enough

.... where did i say that?

What i was saying was that IF he only managed that length then i could be reassured it was a fun filled '5'.

.

I don't see the difference really.

Originally Posted by Johnny GSX-R

I think i'll call it a day on this one, there's clearly mixed beliefs on this subject.

Of course there is, that's what makes it an interesting discussion.

 

[auntie crazy]

No one who has listed their reasons for keeping their cats indoors has derided outdoor kitty owners, on the contrary, many (including me) have empathized and/or sympathized with them - and I resent being called "simple" simply because you disagree with my choice, Johnny GSX-R.

Letting a cat out, to my mind, is equitable to letting a child out. Sure, both the kid and the cat will cry and cry to go out, and sure, sometimes, maybe many times, they'll come back whole and happy, but it's JUST as dangerous for the cat as it is the kid. The only difference is that one is morally reprehensible and the other is not.

And, as has also been mentioned, a lot of the joy of cat ownership, the one-on-one time that I, personally, find irreplaceable, is lost when the cats are allowed to become indoor/outdoor kitties.

Without a shred of doubt, I say my cats are as happy and well-adjusted as yours, PLUS mine will likely enjoy their lives longer and with less suffering.

 

[cococat]

Originally Posted by LDG

Thinking a cat isn't or can't be happy indoors only to me is just as uneducated as believing that cats shouldn't be spayed or neutered because they'll "miss out" on something.

Good way to put it.

 

[nekochan]

Originally Posted by Johnny GSX-R

I will stand by my decission to let him out, he paws the door to go out, moans at me......clearly its something HE wants to do and i'm not going to treat him like an ornament adorning my window cill.
A domesticated cat is merely a slightly tamed version of a natural predator, anyone who cannot understand that is surely simple

You could say the same about dogs. Do you think dogs should be allowed to roam the streets freely too?

 

[Asteria]

My cats are indoor cats, though I take Molly out on a harness and leash (not Polly, though, because she shows absolutely no interest in going outside and I'm not going to force her.) There are far too many common dangers here: coyotes, javelina, vultures, hawks, ranchers (who will shoot anything that shows up on their land uninvited), mountain lions, loose dogs, rattlesnakes, etc. Then if they went a bit further there would be the risk of getting hit by a car, stolen and used for any plausible and horrible purpose, poisoned, shot- you name it. I've seen all those things happen to people's pets since I've lived here.
My neighbors (before they moved) had 5 indoor/outdoor cats during the time I knew them. Only one lasted longer than 6 months, and even he got killed recently.
I've found a balance that works well for my animals and me and that's what matters. Polly stays in because she's happiest indoors. Molly loves the outdoors but due to the dangers I refuse to let her out loose and unsupervised, so she walks on a harness with me (or rather, she walks me

), and loves it.

 

[yayi]

It sounds unfair to say that if the cat has no interest in going out there is no need to force her/him but if it wants out, the kitty is not permitted to do so.

I like this discussion but being in the minority I'm not eager to say anything because the opinions of the opposition sound like

scoldings

 

[northernglow]

All my cats are indoor only. I have tried to take them out in a leash but they hate going outside and are clearly afraid so I don't do it anymore. I live in an apartment complex in a middle of a city and very busy road, so it would be incredibly stupid to let them go outside. It's also ILLEGAL in this country to let your pet (cat or dog) to go outside alone/unsupervised, it's animal cruelty and if the animal leaves it's owners property, then it's abandonment. But still I see flat furry spots on the roads..
I do know an indoor/outdoor cat who is 17+ years old, but she lives in the country and the only predators in that area are foxes and she is the one hunting them....

Her job is to keep mice out of the house, the few neighbours they have know the cat and are happy that she keeps the rodents away.

If you are unable to provide safe activities to your pet without dumping it outside so that it has to entertain itself, don't get a pet.

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by yayi

It sounds unfair to say that if the cat has no interest in going out there is no need to force her/him but if it wants out, the kitty is not permitted to do so.

They do sound similar, but they aren't really. In the former, you are personally, actively forcing the cat to do something it doesn't want to do and/or is afraid to do. In the latter, you're simply preventing the cat from doing something it wants to do, and typically in an impersonal, non-confrontational manner - a shut door - that the cat doesn't associate with you.

Do you see the difference?

Originally Posted by yayi

I like this discussion but being in the minority I'm not eager to say anything because the opinions of the opposition sound like

scoldings

As long as you don't insult me, I won't insult you.

And, as I've said before, I actually do understand why some folks allow their kitties to come and go freely, I just don't do it for mine.

 

[calico2222]

I'm in the minority here because most of my cats are indoor/outdoor cats. HOWEVER, I also live in the country on a dirt road with 5 acres. My neighbors are my MIL and DH's aunt and uncle and they are huge animal lovers and wouldn't hurt my kitties. The only other neighbor is the little old lady at the end of the road and she only goes to church on sunday so traffic is basically non-existant. Also, all of them were barn cats and other than the 5 that were bottle fed (I have 12 now) they were all used to being outside and MIL's barn was their home to begin with so they are familiar with the area. I have 4 that have NO desire to go out...3 of the bottle fed (all female) and a male barn cat that was injured in a fight and we nursed back to health. I guess he had enough and is enjoying the cozy life.

Now, when we lived in town and had out first 3 (Harley, Monster and Little One) they were NOT allowed outside...although Harley did get away from us a time or two. But there were too many dangers like people have mentioned. I think a lot has to do with the area you live in and the space you have.

I know the dangers of letting them outside here. But, there are dangers inside too. What if one of my 4 dogs (3 are big dogs) decides to attack one of my kitties that is annoying her while I'm in the shower? What if one of the cats chews on an electrical cord and fries herself while we're at work? What if one of them crawls into the refrigerator without me noticing and I close the door and go shopping for hours? (I've done that...well, not the going shopping part but Harley learned to stay away from the fridge!). I think if you have a safe enviornment to let your cats outside it is fine, but to each their own.

 

[johnny gsx-r]

Calico2222 , great post , have you got room for a lodger

Puddles is never thrown out

, the door is open and he can please himself. He spends every night curled up right next to me on my bed, he greets me when i come back from the gym as he hears my Land Rover pulling up.

Northern glow "If you are unable to provide safe activities to your pet without dumping it outside so that it has to entertain itself, don't get a pet. "

Of course i can provide safe activities for him, he's never DUMPED outside to entertain himself.......he's not a pet for MY own self gratitude and to be there when i click my fingers, he's a free character who knows where he's loved, fed, watered and has a warm bed.
I got a 'pet' because he was abandoned by his last owner and placed in rescue........i think i'm doing a damn fine job thanks.
If i didn't care do you seriously think i'd give up my precious time arguing with you lot over the merits of an indoor / outdoor cat

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Johnny GSX-R

Calico2222 , great post , have you got room for a lodger

Puddles is never thrown out

, the door is open and he can please himself. He spends every night curled up right next to me on my bed, he greets me when i come back from the gym as he hears my Land Rover pulling up.

Northern glow "If you are unable to provide safe activities to your pet without dumping it outside so that it has to entertain itself, don't get a pet. "

Of course i can provide safe activities for him, he's never DUMPED outside to entertain himself.......he's not a pet for MY own self gratitude and to be there when i click my fingers, he's a free character who knows where he's loved, fed, watered and has a warm bed.
I got a 'pet' because he was abandoned by his last owner and placed in rescue........i think i'm doing a damn fine job thanks.
If i didn't care do you seriously think i'd give up my precious time arguing with you lot over the merits of an indoor / outdoor cat

It was good of you to rescue Puddles. I am happy you are satisfied with your arrangement. That it works for you does not make other people's choices wrong Different does not mean wrong, it means different.