i know i'm going to get murdered for this one...

[kluchetta]

Kush--have you tried Feliway or added Rescue Remedy (liquid) to their food?

I was also wondering about Feliway. I like the idea of the child locks on the cupboards! Although I can't say I've ever heard of kittens being so naughty. I'm sorry you are having this problem.

OH! one thing, I don't know if it will work, but my vet tech swears by it, but depends on the cat. SOME cats, when you put a harness on them, decide it's time to go boneless. That's a good time to try to clip nails...IF your cat does that.

 

[otto]

Kushmama, don't give up hope there are some terrific ideas here!

Keep them coming everyone!

 

[aeevr]

It sounds to me like you're doing everything you can to rationalize declawing. You think it will be a quick fix for these problems. It most likely will not.

Declawing often leads to other unpleasant behaviors like biting and litterbox avoidance.

I don't see how clipping their claws doesn't do anything. If this is so then you are either doing it wrong or have unreasonable expectations.

Claw clipping does not change behavior, it keeps the claws from doing harm.

If your cat was able to draw blood with a swipe then its claws ere not trimmed properly.

You will definitely need to enlist the help of another person to trim claws. have the other person scruff the cat while you trim the claws.

Keeping those claws trimmed gives you the opportunity to train both your child and the kittens to interact properly.

It is not going to happen overnight.

You say:

"They have torn down my curtains, blinds, and I can't have any windows open because they rip through my screens."

"I can't even get them to stay off my counters and tables or out of my CABINETS"

"the cat went to try and take her food off of her (which is another thing they do...no boundaries..they get up on her high chair and steal her food while she is eating or they will jump ON THE STOVE! while stuff is cooking! im just waiting for one of them to catch on fire) "

These are all behaviors that a cat without claws can do... so declawing won't do anything here.

If there is yowling, the cats are not playing. They are fighting for real.

How old are your cats? How long have you had them? How many are there?

 

[aeevr]

Kush - I see from a previous tread started by you that you did not properly introduce the two new kittens to each other or to your resident cat and dog.

This may very well be the root of the vicious fighting and aggression.

The likely solution is reintroduction.

I, and other more knowledgeable members I am sure, are very interested in helping you to solve your problems with your fur family.

I truly believe declawing will not solve your problems.

I am ignoring the ethical problems with declawing when I say that - honestly.

Please let us help you.

 

[angels mommy]

I was also wondering about Feliway. I like the idea of the child locks on the cupboards! Although I can't say I've ever heard of kittens being so naughty. I'm sorry you are having this problem.

OH! one thing, I don't know if it will work, but my vet tech swears by it, but depends on the cat. SOME cats, when you put a harness on them, decide it's time to go boneless. That's a good time to try to clip nails...IF your cat does that.

Yes, Good ideas!!

 

[stealthkitty]

How old are your cats? How long have you had them? How many are there?

 

Also, exactly how many and what kind of scratching posts do they have? Vertical or horizontal? What type of material? Do they use them at all?

Your cats sound a little tense to me. Are you sure they all enjoy each other, and that there's nothing in their surroundings that is causing them stress?

And just my two cents about this thread in general: KushMama is asking for solutions. She's already stated she's normally against declawing but is at her wits' end. Let's offer specific, helpful suggestions about how to deal with destructive cat behavior and not get off-track with pro-/anti-declawing arguments.

 

[angels mommy]

I second the idea of a kitten-safe room where you can put them when they're really acting up. Also, have you tried separating them from each other? Maybe they get each other all riled up or over-stimulated, like little kids sometimes do when they are playing together.

A separate room sounds like another god idea. Maybe it will help them learn some boundaries.

I'm guessing when you tell them no, it's a firm "NO" so they get the tone?  Also sounds like they could all use calming collars.

 

[nu nu]

I use nail caps on my most destructive cat. Without them my whole house would be ruined. These are the kind I use. They come in many colors and my cat doesn't even notice she's wearing them. Doesn't hurt the cat or bother them in any way.

Best of luck. <3

 

[sugarcatmom]

Is an outdoor enclosure an option? I have a couple of insanely energetic 2 yr old kitties that have benefited greatly by having safe access to the outdoors.

And something to think about regarding the declaw issue: if you happened to live in one of those more civilized countries where it's not an option, what would you do then?

 

[stealthkitty]

Is an outdoor enclosure an option? I have a couple of insanely energetic 2 yr old kitties that have benefited greatly by having safe access to the outdoors.

I was thinking along those lines, too. If an enclosure isn't feasible, you could try getting them used to a harness and taking them out for "walks." Being outdoors might help. It would give them exercise, stimulation, a change of scenery, more time with you (if you take them on a harness), and hopefully tire them out enough that they don't claw the furniture!

 

[dejolane]

NuNu,

where do you get the caps and how much were they ? Bella is 3 and Thunder is 7 months now. I have leather couch and love seat. They mainly scratch the carpet.

dejolane

 

[nu nu]

NuNu,

where do you get the caps and how much were they ? Bella is 3 and Thunder is 7 months now. I have leather couch and love seat. They mainly scratch the carpet.

dejolane

I found them at my local PetCo. They are about ten bucks I believe. They're also on pet store sites and Amazon, although they seem a couple dollars more expensive there so I'd check your nearby pet stores first. And one package has enough caps for a about three months (per cat). I swear by them, they're great.

 

[kushmama89]

Sorry...I was in school and then I came back to my house torn apart again. I'm exhausted to say the least after all the cleaning I had to do.

The cats werent "transitioned" because I live in an apartment that only has one room that can be closed off besides the bathroom. And by closing that room off it also closes off my daughters bedroom and he way into the bathroom (weird set up..you come up the steps and our bedroom is there with no door, there is a small middle room through our bedroom, then my daughters room and the bathroom is in her room.) Downstairs is a kitchen and living room and that's it. So there was no way of closing them all off in separate areas. But the cats are not fighting. They sleep together, they swat their jingle balls around together, they even sometimes will groom each other. And they love the dog too, they rub on her and cuddle with her but when they start playin they all use their claws. Fatman is VERY strong, he has a lot of power and when he puts his weight into one of the females or snags one of them with his nails, yes they yowl. And kush has always been a total b**ch from the beginning with her claws...she was bottle raised and she's just always been like that. She's been worse than any kitten I've seen and has never cared about discipline. I've taken every suggestion people on this forum gave me and others while I skimmed and none of t worked with her. She's psycho. Everyone says there's something wrong with her and maybe there is and I never wanted to believe it because she's like my child...but she's literally a nightmare.

I can't clip fatmans nails by myself. He bites me and is way too strong. No one else will go near any of the cats to help me with them because they're all afraid of them but ONLY when it comes to maintanence work. They're nice as pie as long as you're not messing with something on them. And my husband is currently deployed so its just me here now.

I'm not stupid, I know how to trim a cats nails but when they're freaking out and trying to attack you they aren't always perfect and just short of the quick. I do what I can without becoming a bloody mess with it just being me. I don't have money to take them to a vet everytime they need their nails trimmed, that's a bit ridiculous.

Ill try the feliway...haven't went into that yet. As for their ages, I got fatman and puta before thanksgiving and they were estimated to be around 6 & 7 months then and kush's "birthday" is June 28th so like 6 1/2 months now for her.

We share a porch with neighbors so an outside enclosure wouldn't be an option. And other members of the site said taking them outside wouldn't be good because they're constantly trying to escape and it would make it worse...so which is it? I feel like nothing I do or say is right and I just can't win...

 

[sushi_2286]

Kush- I had scratchers and food thieves too. They'd claw anyone to get at the food, including my toddler. I have no tolerance for counter surfing, or dumpster diving...

I curbed most of these behaviors by imitating a growl or a hiss. When No-More grabbed my finger and drew blood over a treat, I shoved him away and ignored him. Or I'd scruff him. With Kush being a bottle baby, she never learned her manners, you'll have to complete your momma cat duties and teach her, and the other two. Until your cats have had some manners drilled into them, don't replace the furniture. Maybe you could try a dog trick and use a time-out crate. Victoria Still well used it on a dog that would hump the family members, and steal food. They act out, you reprimand then pop them in time out and ignore them for 5minutes.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[kushmama89]

I've tried the hissing/gowling they pay no mind to it and scruffing them doesn't do anything either. That's why I'm getting so frustrated. I'm not trying to shoot down people's ideas or be one of those people that just don't want the help...I just literally have done everything. Lol. I can literally take one of them off the table do the whole scruff/hiss thing and as soon as I put them down in the living room they instantly run right back into the kitchen on the table. It's pathetic. And scruffing Kush will sometimes make her lash out and go apesh*t. If I scruff either of the other two they would atleast go limp(like submissive) but kush doesn't; and there are times when she really acts up that I have to scruff her, hold all four I her legs together with my other hand, take her to the stairs and give her little toss up like two steps that way she runs UP them and not back at me and attack me. I know how she is so little things like that I know how to handle her. It probably sounds bad...but when you see her going psycho and trying to attack you or someone just because she gets in a mood in the middle of being pet or because she gets disciplined and she's not happy about it..there's not much else I can do.

And I hold her legs together because she will twist and flail even when she's scruffed to try to scratch and bite me. And when I say toss her up the stairs...she's like a darn bird. I have to give her a slight toss because as soon as you let to of her she's on the move. So literally as I give her the little toss, midair she's already stretched out and in control-running up the steps. It literally reminds me of if you were holding a bird in your hands and you opened them and it flew away.....

Well...it's 4am and they have finally just stopped running around like crazy and ripping up my christmas decorations so I'm going to bed!!

 

[orientalslave]

Cats don't understand punishment like dogs so, so varying forms of it aren't going to work.

Always put them on the scratcher when they start on something else and reward them if they use it of their own volition.

Clip a claw or two when they are asleep - it's the front ones that do almost all the damage.  Make sure you have a good-quality sharp pair of clippers, gently squeeze, clip and it's done.  If the cat is still sleep, do the next one otherwise wait until next time you find them asleep.;

It also sounds like you maybe don't have a very good scruffing technique.  And remember, it's use is to be able to handle a cat for either something it doesn't like such as being pilled, or because it's the only safe way for you to handle it.

I also think these are very, very bored and stressed cats.  Plenty of play with interactive toys sounds called for (not just leaving them to get on with it with a pile of toys) and you might find trying clicker training helps, partly because it's about rewarding desired behaviour and partly because it will occupy their minds.  Not going out doesn't help as they have a less rich environment than cats with some sort of outside access.

And unfortunately bottle babies are often difficult as adults, because they haven't been taught manners etc. by their mothers.

Do all your cats actually get on with each other?  I don't mean do they tolerate each other, but do they greet each other, sleep togeather, do mutual grooming?  Am wondering if there is some sort of 'enemy within' thing going on as well.

 

[ritz]

Drugs.  If Feliway or Rescue Remedy don't work--or maybe in conjunction with--I'd talk to your vet (or ask him to refer you to one) about a mood stabilizer.  From your description, it sounds like something is off in their brain, a chemical maladaption.  Desparate measures and all of that.

I'm afraid declawing wouldn't solve a biochemical problem.

 

[sushi_2286]

Have you tried the loudest and ugliest noise that you can muster?

She did mention occasional grooming and sleeping together.

It really just sounds to me like a group of mouthy teenagers. Kush sounds like she's the ringleader too.

We're all trying to think of something, hang in there.

 

[purrfectlycat]

OMG!!! I'm surprised you're still sane enough to post for help

I've read through all of this very carefully, including some of your past posts, like this...

We keep the door shut at all times because its just a big main door. We aren't allowed to add a screen door or anything to the property since we rent and we really aren't even allowed to have pets. Shhhh. The landlord knows about the dog...not about the kitties, but he does about the neighbors cats...he just dont like it. But if we aren't home or we go outside to smoke a cigarette she will wait until she hears the door knob and bolts. Or she hides somewhere and bolts when we are going out. I try and look around to make sure before I go out but she's very very sneaky. And other people just don't care. Like t mother in law. I tell her EVERY day (she babysits my daughter) to keep the door shut and she will just stand there with it open like a moron like she can't comprehend a simple sentence then when the cat slips past her I freak and she yells that -I- need to get it because SHE don't like cats and its my fault it's not trained. -rolls eyes-

Is your Mother in law still sitting with your daughter? (SHE don't like cats), Did you have this problem before she started sitting with your daughter, or did it start after she started sitting with her. Is it possible that something is going on while you're away from home while she's there?

I had a situation a few years back, where a family member came to stay with me for a few months, and was alone in my home while I worked. My only cat at the time, started exhibiting some very destructive and bazaar behavior shortly after her arrival. I didn't connect her being here, as the possible cause until a few weeks after she left, when the cats behavior started to return to normal. If I had suspected something sooner I would have set up a web cam to see what was going on while I was not there.

In this thread you stated that your kitties get everything they need, but the one thing they want ( to go outside). Is it possible that your MIL, while sitting at your place with your daughter, let your kitties out? Which might explain some of this behavior.

If I were dealing with a situation like this I would also look at their diet. I know you're giving them a premium food, but diet can affect animals and people alike. You might consider adding some different brands and a variety of different foods as well.

I'll keep my thinking cap plugged in, and get back to you when something else comes to mind.

 

[kushmama89]

Oh sorry to clarify she NEVER babysits at my house! She's not allowed at my house alone because she's a nut job too haha. I'm surrounded by them lol. She used to come and pick her up but now that my husband deployed my gram picks my daughter up 3 of the 4 days and I take her out to the car so it's not a problem. We have problems with his mother hoarding diapers and my younger cousin stealing things so no one is allowed at my home without me present. So I know the kitties haven been let out or hurt or anything like that; just by accident when I'm carrying in heavy groceries or his mom has the door wide open visiting on weekends, etc. but I'm getting pretty good at keeping kush in. I used to try walking her, I would try taking her stick toys and dangling them so she would walk, hers laser; anything and she wouldn't have it. When she is on the harness and leash or when she's on the harness and long light lead I bought her for the porch...she runs back inside. But if she doesn't have the harness on she runs back outside. I've tested this too. She's tried getting out so I put her harness on and took her out and she went right back in. (The door open the entire time) she stood there wanting nothing to do with being outside...the minute I took her out of the harness she tried to bolt to go back out. And she did this a few times that I tried this. She's too smart is the problem.