I can't believe it, now I have to catch a litter of kittens.

[the3rdname]

Kitten family flyer.jpg

• kittychick
• May 22, 2014

Omg, those kittens are adorable!  I'm so glad you were able to find forever-homes for them.  Do you mind if I ask what program you used to make the flyer?  

 
I agree - definitely try to ask around the neighborhood if you feel comfortable. That's how we found out the other major food giver in our neighborhood - now we check in with each other periodically if one goes "missing" - although sometimes they do for weeks and come back just fine.

I would keep feeding the dry as MsAimee suggested, and then add something extra tempting like mackeral for trapping. I do bet Momma just took them on an outing since the routine was changed a little. They do look old enough for that.

Thanks for the kind, reassuring words 

  I keep telling myself that mama and daddy cat are bright little things and so the kittens must have good instincts, too.  I believe mama cat was trying to coax the kittens into an outing the other day when I put up the fence, so it wouldn't surprise me if she decided to flaunt the precautions I was taking for *her* kittens.  I guess you can never tell a mother, even a furry one, how to raise her children.

I'll probably start printing out and distributing a "missing kittens" flyer if I don't see them soon.  People around here seem nice enough and I'm sure they'd let me know if they saw the kittens.

I know what you mean about ferals and their unpredictable behavior.  Sometimes one of the adults goes on a walk-a-bout and I won't see them for a few days, even a week, and then, poof!, there they are safe and sound at the feeding station.  I hate worrying about them when they're away.  At least they're mature and experienced...I have to keep fighting this rising tide of panic every time my mind starts to fixate on all the trouble a little baby can get into.  Especially one of the tabbies.  He/she has made a habit of ignoring mom lately.   That worries me more than anything.

I'll try my best to stay positive and hopeful. Thanks again.  

 

[the3rdname]

What could this mean?  Mama cat and and one of her colony friends (a female, I think) showed up for dinner time.  No kittens.  I ran around the perimeter of the fence and house to see if they were hidden nearby and couldn't find them.  

Why has she been kitten-less the past two days if she's just taking them for an outing?  *crossing fingers and hoping someone knows of a rational explanation*  

 

[kittychick]

She actually could have moved them -even at this age. They don't tend to move them as often (as far as I know) at this stage - but it is possible. It's possible something got her concerned during the night - we have tons of raccoons here and we've had them frighten off cats/kittens multiple times. So she/he could have led/taken them somewhere nearby. Last summer there was a litter several doors down from our neighborhood "colony starter/non-TNR person" that was under a porch. The mom/kittens were under there every night up until about 8-9 weeks..when I swear, through bizarre cat intuitiion (I joke- sort of) we made the decision they were old enough to trap and TNR mom and try to socialize/adopt the kittens. That morning they all disappeared from under the porch. Truly bizarre. But mom and several of the kittens appeared again - a block away - almost 2-3 weeks later. We'll never know why in the world it happened - so odd timing-wise - but we worried ourselves silly every night. 

The best advice I can give you is remember that mom and dad have survived quite well as ferals and would have passed along those skills to their babies. If something "got them" (like a dog, etc.) you would have found some evidence when you looked underneath. Even if mom took them out for one night and, god forbid, someone had a brush up with a car, et.c. it wouldn't have been the whole litter at once. And illness wouldn't have gotten the whole litter in one night. They have to have been moved. 

The other thing that might make you feel better - if something truly happened to the litter vs momma moving them - I can almost guarantee you would have heard her. After we trapped and TNR'd our mama under our next door deck - when we released her two days later she immediately went over to under the deck where she and the kittens had been and just ...well.. it almost sounded like crying/screaming for them. For almost 48 hours straight. I talked to Alley Cat Allies - we were so distraught hearing her that we almost re-released the kittens with her. It was gut-wrenching. But after 2 days, she seemed to reconcile herself with their disappearance, I still - in a certain way - feel awful about it. So if something happened to the litter- I have a feeling you'd have a much more distraught momma!

I'm a graphic designer - and did the flyer in InDesign. If you need any suggestions on getting one done if the litter comes back around and you end up socializing and rehoming - send me a note and I'll help out much as possible!

 

[kittychick]

And meant to say in post a second ago - if you're "colony central" - it's definitely possible their was a dust-up within the colony and that's what made Mom move them. It's possible that if another adult made her nervous since if she's getting to the non - nursing point, males will start hounding her again very quickly - that she felt better moving them. Could have had nothing to do with your not feeding - so don't beat yourself up too much on that. 

Or at least try not too. Easier said then done.

 

[the3rdname]

 
She actually could have moved them -even at this age. They don't tend to move them as often (as far as I know) at this stage - but it is possible. It's possible something got her concerned during the night - we have tons of raccoons here and we've had them frighten off cats/kittens multiple times. So she/he could have led/taken them somewhere nearby. Last summer there was a litter several doors down from our neighborhood "colony starter/non-TNR person" that was under a porch. The mom/kittens were under there every night up until about 8-9 weeks..when I swear, through bizarre cat intuitiion (I joke- sort of) we made the decision they were old enough to trap and TNR mom and try to socialize/adopt the kittens. That morning they all disappeared from under the porch. Truly bizarre. But mom and several of the kittens appeared again - a block away - almost 2-3 weeks later. We'll never know why in the world it happened - so odd timing-wise - but we worried ourselves silly every night. 

The best advice I can give you is remember that mom and dad have survived quite well as ferals and would have passed along those skills to their babies. If something "got them" (like a dog, etc.) you would have found some evidence when you looked underneath. Even if mom took them out for one night and, god forbid, someone had a brush up with a car, et.c. it wouldn't have been the whole litter at once. And illness wouldn't have gotten the whole litter in one night. They have to have been moved. 

The other thing that might make you feel better - if something truly happened to the litter vs momma moving them - I can almost guarantee you would have heard her. After we trapped and TNR'd our mama under our next door deck - when we released her two days later she immediately went over to under the deck where she and the kittens had been and just ...well.. it almost sounded like crying/screaming for them. For almost 48 hours straight. I talked to Alley Cat Allies - we were so distraught hearing her that we almost re-released the kittens with her. It was gut-wrenching. But after 2 days, she seemed to reconcile herself with their disappearance, I still - in a certain way - feel awful about it. So if something happened to the litter- I have a feeling you'd have a much more distraught momma!

I'm a graphic designer - and did the flyer in InDesign. If you need any suggestions on getting one done if the litter comes back around and you end up socializing and rehoming - send me a note and I'll help out much as possible!

You were right!  She'd moved the kittens and brought them back late last night for a quick meal.  Well, she thought it was going to be a grab-and-go!  While the cats were eating, I ran out the side door to the back of the fence with the open section, then closed it back up again.  This time I doubled the height.  I spent all night (blergh) watching over everyone because mama was seriously PO'd and determined to get the kittens back out again.  I spent the earlier part of the day (in between trying to get some work done!) kitten-removal proofing the porch and yard.  Mama was so irate she seemed to seriously entertain the notion of attacking me for a tense few minutes there.   

After a lot of pacing, circling the yard, entering and exiting, meowing, meowing, meowing, she finally gave up on finding a handy kitten exit and went out for the day.  Despite some pretty awesome blockades, if I do say so myself, she's making me nervous and so I decided to set a couple of regular traps in the hope that I could start bringing in kittens.  No takers just yet.  They're still enjoying their daytime nap, so we'll see what happens when they wake up.  I'm more than a little terrified that mama will return before then...if she sees a kitten get trapped and taken into the house I don't know that I'll survive the night!

Everything you said really helped assuage my fears.  I was an emotional wreck most of yesterday, but I felt positive by nighttime that I'd see them again.  And I did!  Poor little things were famished and seemed a little wilder than when they'd left on their two-day sojourn.  They are being extra, extra obedient around mama cat, too.  It was so good to see them fill their bellies and relax a little, start playing with toys and wrestling again.  

Dad showed up first last night and he was looking and calling for the kittens.  They are good parents!  Mama is a little *too* good at her job for my comfort 

 

 

[the3rdname]

Important Q about cats in heat and toms:  Would a cat in heat attract any tom in the vicinity or only her colony tom (yep, there's just one, with a small harem), and would he jump a tall fence to get into the yard?  Assuming this is possible, could he harm 8-9 week old kittens in the yard?  If "yes", what could I do to prevent this?

 

[msaimee]

A female cat in heat can attract all of the toms in the area. They will catch her scent and often fight with each other over her. Is the mama cat in heat now? I can't answer whether or not a tom can jump a tall fence or not--it depends on the tom and the fence--but they will certainly want to get to her.

Toms will usually not harm their own offspring--and yes, they do know when kittens are theirs. Some toms will ignore their offspring, while others will be very good papa cats and protect and care for their kittens. Toms who are not related to the kittens may harm them. I've not seen this firsthand, but this is what I have read. The best way to protect the kittens once they are able to eat on their own is to trap them, socialize them, and find them good homes indoors.

 

[kittychick]

I am SOOOOOO glad the whole family came back!!! I've been checking my email every few hours practically in hopes you'd post something like that. See - we all get caught up in each other's tales of panic since alot of us have been there.....and even once you start to realize what the answers are/can be that's when you realize you have virtually no control a large portion of the time. Now I forget who told me that once on this site....(I think it was FeralVR)...something to the effect of "caring for ferals teaches us all we ultimately have just so much control over the universe." Good thing to remind myself every now and then.

And glad I was able to offer a few words of slight comfort earlier - in other situations, people on this site have really helped calm me down when my husband couldn't  It's a great place to try and get suggestions, ask questions - and calm fears

I've never had an issue with toms in all my years a far as toms and kittens - even kittens that weren't theirs. But I, like MsAimee, have read it's possible. I swear - anything's possible

The big issue is she ABSOLUTELY can be in heat already. And can attract males from loooooonnnnngggg distances (I last read on a reputable site that this time of year toms generally search in a 1 mile radius for females in heat?!?! Amazing. So definitely outsiders from your colony could be attracted. Sadly - she'll need to be trapped if at all possible as soon as possible. As I think I said before - with "Buffer, Pip and Izze" (the 3 in my flyer) we actually trapped mom - "Maddie" - first (we knew the boys were weaned...and felt as confident as possible we could get them almost immediately - they'd all eaten out of the traps - including Maddie - exclusively for about 2 weeks I think before we trapped. And amazingly got everyone super quickly. As I said - we tried to be as fool proof and careful as possible (like fool proof is ever possible with ferals!) by literally tying a string to the trap door to slam it shut and running it through the fence where we could silently sit on the ground and watch for the second anyone went to the back of the trap. But we were so lucky as far as positioning in that we got them to eat out of the trap just 3 feet on the other side of the fence from us!

If it makes you feel any better too - I'm doing my fair share of worrying tonight...one little feral we TNR'd last summer we're particularly enamored with - "Flick." She is about 1 year now - and teeny. Solid grey, with a white heart (I kid you not) on her chest - and a bit of a neuromuscular issue part of the colony shares that makes her back end & tail not work quite right...she wobbles endearingly when she walks. We always wondered if she was part of a litter last summer that took place in a cat shelter at "the colony starter/encourager" house that was played with by the husband and wife some when they were 4-10 weeks old (but wouldn't neuter/spay them - so we had to TNR as many as we saw in our yard despite pleas to let me bring them in while still slightly handleable to socialize). Anyway - for some strange reason last weekend she started sitting on our back steps. By Tuesday she was letting us hold food out and she'd quickly take from our hands...by Friday she was eating off my lap...and last night she let me stroke her back 8 or 9 times!!!! She'd been showing up every night without fail between 6:30 and 7 without fail since last weekend, and a few mornings....by Friday she was literally using me as a "mommy shield" between her and the few other guys who've started passing through at dusk, sitting right behind me on the top step so that she could fall asleep for a half hour, snuggled into a ball against my back. Needless to say - even my husband is starting to think "perhaps if she keeps getting more socialized we can try her inside...not that we'd keep her of course"...yeah right  But then tonight - we took a break and did an early cookout at friends but didn't get home until 8:30 - this whole week - even the other 2 nights we were out for a bit - she was waiting for us. Neighbors saying she'd come at her "usual time" and sat on our steps till we returned. But tonight - - - no Flick. We've called and called. Still no Flick. I keep telling myself it's been only a week of this new behavior - that she's disappeared for longer (and there is dry food out all day until 11 every day in the feeding station) so she wouldn't be starving. But of course...despite all my own good advice to myself...I'm worrying. So much for taking my own advice huh?  

SOOOO happy your brood is back! Keep us posted!!!!!

 

[kittychick]

And meant to say - went back and read my own flier on Buffer, Pip and Izze - which says we took them in at 8 weeks, not 12. But I think we ended up deciding as aging progressed (I just asked my hubby) they were actually 10 weeks when we took them in and 12 when we ran the flier. Needless to say - the closer to 8 weeks you can get them in, the better for socialization purposes. We did another 2 later in the year that came to us at 12 weeks - and they were a real handful to socialize

 

[the3rdname]

 
I am SOOOOOO glad the whole family came back!!! I've been checking my email every few hours practically in hopes you'd post something like that. See - we all get caught up in each other's tales of panic since alot of us have been there.....and even once you start to realize what the answers are/can be that's when you realize you have virtually no control a large portion of the time. Now I forget who told me that once on this site....(I think it was FeralVR)...something to the effect of "caring for ferals teaches us all we ultimately have just so much control over the universe." Good thing to remind myself every now and then.

And glad I was able to offer a few words of slight comfort earlier - in other situations, people on this site have really helped calm me down when my husband couldn't  It's a great place to try and get suggestions, ask questions - and calm fears

I've never had an issue with toms in all my years a far as toms and kittens - even kittens that weren't theirs. But I, like MsAimee, have read it's possible. I swear - anything's possible

The big issue is she ABSOLUTELY can be in heat already. And can attract males from loooooonnnnngggg distances (I last read on a reputable site that this time of year toms generally search in a 1 mile radius for females in heat?!?! Amazing. So definitely outsiders from your colony could be attracted. Sadly - she'll need to be trapped if at all possible as soon as possible. As I think I said before - with "Buffer, Pip and Izze" (the 3 in my flyer) we actually trapped mom - "Maddie" - first (we knew the boys were weaned...and felt as confident as possible we could get them almost immediately - they'd all eaten out of the traps - including Maddie - exclusively for about 2 weeks I think before we trapped. And amazingly got everyone super quickly. As I said - we tried to be as fool proof and careful as possible (like fool proof is ever possible with ferals!) by literally tying a string to the trap door to slam it shut and running it through the fence where we could silently sit on the ground and watch for the second anyone went to the back of the trap. But we were so lucky as far as positioning in that we got them to eat out of the trap just 3 feet on the other side of the fence from us!

If it makes you feel any better too - I'm doing my fair share of worrying tonight...one little feral we TNR'd last summer we're particularly enamored with - "Flick." She is about 1 year now - and teeny. Solid grey, with a white heart (I kid you not) on her chest - and a bit of a neuromuscular issue part of the colony shares that makes her back end & tail not work quite right...she wobbles endearingly when she walks. We always wondered if she was part of a litter last summer that took place in a cat shelter at "the colony starter/encourager" house that was played with by the husband and wife some when they were 4-10 weeks old (but wouldn't neuter/spay them - so we had to TNR as many as we saw in our yard despite pleas to let me bring them in while still slightly handleable to socialize). Anyway - for some strange reason last weekend she started sitting on our back steps. By Tuesday she was letting us hold food out and she'd quickly take from our hands...by Friday she was eating off my lap...and last night she let me stroke her back 8 or 9 times!!!! She'd been showing up every night without fail between 6:30 and 7 without fail since last weekend, and a few mornings....by Friday she was literally using me as a "mommy shield" between her and the few other guys who've started passing through at dusk, sitting right behind me on the top step so that she could fall asleep for a half hour, snuggled into a ball against my back. Needless to say - even my husband is starting to think "perhaps if she keeps getting more socialized we can try her inside...not that we'd keep her of course"...yeah right  But then tonight - we took a break and did an early cookout at friends but didn't get home until 8:30 - this whole week - even the other 2 nights we were out for a bit - she was waiting for us. Neighbors saying she'd come at her "usual time" and sat on our steps till we returned. But tonight - - - no Flick. We've called and called. Still no Flick. I keep telling myself it's been only a week of this new behavior - that she's disappeared for longer (and there is dry food out all day until 11 every day in the feeding station) so she wouldn't be starving. But of course...despite all my own good advice to myself...I'm worrying. So much for taking my own advice huh?  

SOOOO happy your brood is back! Keep us posted!!!!!

It's so nice of you to be concerned about our little kitten family!   I've been itching to get back to the computer and respond.  I would've responded earlier but I'm so exhausted at this point I can barely see straight.  We've been dealing with nasty weather, keeping the kitten family safe and secure throughout, and were forced to work even harder on kitten escape-proofing the porch.  I swear they grow a little more every day, and they're developing into excellent jumpers!

I was sorry to hear about Flick going missing.  I relate to what you said about ferals teaching us the limits of our control.  Sometimes members of my colony go MIA for a few days or a week and I start to worry.  They always return, of course, I just wish they would check in at least once a day.  It would be great if they could put minuscule GPS units in those microchips.  Then we could have them chipped and feel a little better "watching" them when they go on walkabouts.  

I hope Flick returns soon.  Sending positive thoughts your and her way 

 

 

[the3rdname]

Annnd we have kittens!  Kittens in da house!  

 The trap arrived Tuesday and, after a couple of terrible days weather-wise, I was able to finally capture the kittens and bring them inside last night.  Despite the sheer terror of being uprooted from their outdoor home and mom, they ate some food, used the litter box, played with toys, and a couple of them even made themselves at home on the cat tree in their room.   So all in all we seem to be off to a good start.  They hide from me and watch my every movement with extreme trepidation when I'm with them, but I'd expected that.  I've been mostly leaving them alone to explore their room and adjust to new surroundings.  I'll try engaging them in play today (they've been very good about playing with wand toys outside) and proceed with Gerber "kitten crack" bribery in the hopes of getting them even closer- so far I've gotten them to eat off a plate a few inches away.  

Mama cat is moping on the porch, looking miserable 

  I've been putting Rescue Remedy in her food, spraying Comfort Zone everywhere, giving her Composure treats.  I don't think I can do any more than that.  She knows the kittens were caught in the trap- she fled when the trap came down- and now she won't eat in my presence like she normally does.  I think maybe she's expecting the same.  I just hope this extraordinarily clever cat understands that the kittens are safe indoors.  I wonder if they'll recognize each other when the kittens are allowed to roam the house and peer at her through the sliding door.  I want her to see that they're safe and doing well.

If anyone would like to share some wisdom regarding socialization, I'd be happy to read it.  I don't know if there are milestones that should happen within a certain framework...I guess I'm interested in knowing how to gauge our progress.  And I desperately need advice on how to get them into the carrier!  Only one of them has been handled so far, and that was to get her into the transfer cage (she was the only one that completely froze).  She was calm at first, then freaked out a bit when put into the cage.  Stupidly, I forgot to have work gloves handy and got a little scratched up.  The others aren't going to take well to being scruffed, I can already tell.  

 

[msaimee]

That's great news! It's also wonderful that you managed to trap them all together. They are much less stressed having each other, after losing their mom, and can continue to socialize each other through their play. While their mom is depressed, she knows that her kittens are weaned and old enough to survive without her, so she is not going to get frantic. Poor kitty. Are you going to try to trap and spay her, too? She likely can smell her kittens in your house. A few weeks after trapping my feral kitten, Harry, I showed him to his papa cat who eats on my porch to let him know I had him. They still look at each other through the windows in my sunroom. While I'm sure papa didn't approve of my taking his offspring, he accepted it, and I know that he knows I've been taking care of his boy just fine. Mama disppeared shortly after we trapped her third and last kitten, and we never saw her again and were unable to trap her. Cats experience the loss, then move on.

You can really bond with the kittens by playing with them with the wand toy. Soon enough they will associate you with food and play. They will need a little time to un-learn everything their feral mama taught them about humans, namely, to fear them. How many are there? What will likely happen is that the "leader" of the group will approach you and begin to interact with you, and then the rest will follow suit.

Have fun with your kittens! Good job!

 

[the3rdname]

SAM_0163.JPG

• the3rdname
• May 30, 2014

SAM_0166.JPG

• the3rdname
• May 30, 2014

 

[the3rdname]

Quick update: Last night was an ordeal for everyone.  Mama cat circled the house calling for her missing kittens and I think they heard her through the closed window.  Two of them were visibly distressed, and the littlest spent the rest of the night crying and trying desperately to escape.  I was afraid s/he might hurt her/himself, so I spent most of the night curled up on the floor in the opposite corner of the room, making soothing noises (didn't help!).  S/he approached me a couple of times, seemingly wanting attention, but chickened out at the last second.  On a positive note, while lying on the floor a couple of them came up to me and sniffed me.  

I really hope we don't have to go through that again tonight.  I feel for mama but I need some sleep. 

 

[the3rdname]

I'm not sure how to approach petting.  Should I try to pet them when they're sleepy and facing away from me, when they're eating (most refuse to eat in my presence now, which is a huge setback 

), or do I wait for them to come to me?  

I know it's only been a couple of days, but I'm beginning to feel the weight of this monumental task before me.  I was hissed at yesterday, and the littlest has taken on the role of caretaker, calling all the kittens to hir when s/he feels unsafe.  The only time they seem to genuinely tolerate my presence is when I sing to them.  I guess it's something.

 

[msaimee]

I've found that the best time to sneak a pet in is when the cat is engrossed in eating something yummy. Quickly stroke his cheek or the top of his head. If he swipes or hisses, back off.

One thing that has helped me to deal with the "rejection" of a feral not wanting to be touched, or who makes a face as though he's tasted something nasty when touched--is to think of how I would feel if I had been trapped and taken in by a gigantic alien who looked and smelled odd to me. I would gladly accept food from this alien, but would probably not want to be touched or picked up, lol. It takes a while for a feral to adopt us, and in the mean time, we have to be patient. Socializing feral kittens will take a month or two, but there's a high success rate for socializing kittens, and it mostly takes patience, toys, and food.

Those kittens are soooooo cute. I can completely understand why you want to scoop them up and pet them!

 

[dogmom]

I am doing the exact same thing - discovered a 5 kitten litter under my porch - I have been lucky is catching them one at a time and putting them on the covered upper porch in a dog crate (with food water and protection)  I think mine is a little easier because the Momma is socialized with me and i am pretty sure she was kicked out of a home just down the street - someone used to own her so she's mostly friendly.  But have a little patience and try to catch them before they get too much older because they run faster and i have observed that they don't move far enough away from where they are comfortable (where they feel safe),  I retrieved one more this morning when i set some food just under the porch then pulled out the plate so he had to come out to eat some more - he was hungry too!  I have also had luck with a toy my sister made with a long stick and a long feather and a bell - shiny ribbons on it catch the light and get their attention.  Also, the more time i am spending with them - not necessarily holding them but just sitting with them and "talking" outside the cage on the porch.  I think this is starting to sound like i am bragging but i think i have been extremely fortunate so far *fingers crossed*.  GOOD LUCK and try not to stress out (as i was also doing the first couple days)

 

[the3rdname]

 
I've found that the best time to sneak a pet in is when the cat is engrossed in eating something yummy. Quickly stroke his cheek or the top of his head. If he swipes or hisses, back off.

One thing that has helped me to deal with the "rejection" of a feral not wanting to be touched, or who makes a face as though he's tasted something nasty when touched--is to think of how I would feel if I had been trapped and taken in by a gigantic alien who looked and smelled odd to me. I would gladly accept food from this alien, but would probably not want to be touched or picked up, lol. It takes a while for a feral to adopt us, and in the mean time, we have to be patient. Socializing feral kittens will take a month or two, but there's a high success rate for socializing kittens, and it mostly takes patience, toys, and food.

Those kittens are soooooo cute. I can completely understand why you want to scoop them up and pet them!

 
I am doing the exact same thing - discovered a 5 kitten litter under my porch - I have been lucky is catching them one at a time and putting them on the covered upper porch in a dog crate (with food water and protection)  I think mine is a little easier because the Momma is socialized with me and i am pretty sure she was kicked out of a home just down the street - someone used to own her so she's mostly friendly.  But have a little patience and try to catch them before they get too much older because they run faster and i have observed that they don't move far enough away from where they are comfortable (where they feel safe),  I retrieved one more this morning when i set some food just under the porch then pulled out the plate so he had to come out to eat some more - he was hungry too!  I have also had luck with a toy my sister made with a long stick and a long feather and a bell - shiny ribbons on it catch the light and get their attention.  Also, the more time i am spending with them - not necessarily holding them but just sitting with them and "talking" outside the cage on the porch.  I think this is starting to sound like i am bragging but i think i have been extremely fortunate so far *fingers crossed*.  GOOD LUCK and try not to stress out (as i was also doing the first couple days)

Thanks muchly for the advice and moral support 

  It's certainly helped buoy my faith in the process...which is painstakingly slow, but we're making gradual progress.  I have two that are starting to come around, Tavi and Rory (gray tabby boy and orange tabby girl), Tyger (gray tabby boy), who changes his mind about me on a daily, even hourly, basis, and my shy boy, Rumi (orange and white bicolor), ironically the largest of the bunch, who is reluctant to eat in front of me and still hides at times (he loves his wand toy playtime, though).   

Two of them will eat freeze-dried chicken from my fingers (Tavi and Tyger), and I know I really shouldn't, but I let Tavi grab my hand and gnaw on my chicken-flavored fingers (as long he doesn't bite hard!).  It's a rare moment for us when I can get in a little petting, so I gladly put up with the finger chewing.  Three of them (Rory, Tavi and Tyger) will eat Gerber chicken/turkey & gravy from a plate directly in front of me, and it's a good opportunity to get in a wee bit of light stroking.  I struggle with the whole petting conundrum regularly.  Like MsAimee said, they do seem uncomfortable with touch right now and I know I have to have patience and let them get accustomed to it on their own schedule...but I also think they would be content to never be touched again, so I think I have to push them a little bit out of their comfort zone if I want to get them socialized.  It's a matter of picking the right time and knowing how much touching is tolerable.  I'm always second-guessing this!  I'm always afraid of pushing too hard, but then I'm also afraid of being a pushover and not doing enough.  It's so confusing. 

My favorite time of the day is nighttime, when I sleep on their floor for a couple of hours- I ended up putting them in the guest room, after moving the bed out, so I have to sleep on folded up blankets 

.  I face away from them and that's when they get a tremendous boost in confidence!  Tyger, Tavi and Rory will attack my wriggling toes (beneath a blanket, of course!), they'll play King of the Mountain, even lie down briefly on my leg and relax, play with my hair...  It's like I lose all threat potential when I'm "sleeping".  For a little time I get to feel completely accepted by them.  And it feels wonderful!

So that's where we stand at the moment.  We have our first vet appointment Wednesday and I'm afraid of what it's going to do to the progress we've made when I have to corral them into carriers and remove them, even for just a couple of hours, from an environment they're starting to feel safe in.  I hope we can weather the challenge.

 

[the3rdname]

Feeling nervous about taking the kittens to the vet on Wed.  Can anyone reassure me that it won't hinder progress or cause them to regress?  They seem to relax a little more every day, they're getting used to minimal petting (Tyger even seems to enjoy it now!), but we aren't yet at the handling stage.  Not even close.  Which means I'm going to have to catch them and place them into carriers against their will.  I have a semi-feral that usually has to be forced into a carrier for vet visits, but at least she loves being handled most of the time.  How is it going to affect our relationship if their first handling is a stressful event?  

Any tips for making the catch-and-crate process easier?  Scruff and support the hind legs?

I'm planning on throwing on a hockey jersey and pair of long leather welding gloves...just in case things get dicey.  

 

[msaimee]

Yes, cats are resilient and very forgiving towards us humans. Especially kittens! Even if they are more skittish than normal after the vet visit, within 24 hours, they'll be themselves again. They will likely be back to normal within a few hours. I've had my two geriatric, domestic cats for 13-14 years, and they still put up a royal fuss during vet visits--yowling in the car and office (especially my siamese), drooling, peeing in the cat carrier, followed by running and hiding from me for hours when we get home! By the end of the day, they're back on my bed, wanting to be petted. I wouldn't be concerned about impeding your progess with these kittens--you're the one who feeds them and plays with them, and they know it. Veterinary visits are a part of a pet's life, and something they have to get used to and deal with, though cats will never like it!