Hyperthyroidism/ckd/etc

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
Our 17 year and 3 month old boy, Casper had his bi-annual health check this past week. The doctor felt his thyroid was somewhat enlarged. He had all the usual bloodwork done and it appears that the T4 is elevated minimally and has suggested we start him on a very low dose of Methimazole, once a day and come back in a few weeks to recheck.

Casper has been living with Chronic Kidney Disease for a little over a year. That situation is fairly well controlled at the moment - thankfully, nothing has increased dramatically over this time period; his BUN is normal although his creatinine and urea nitrogen are elevated and increased slightly over the last time he was checked. He gets fluids 2x a week (can't do more because of heart issues), along with Vitamin B12 shots every couple of weeks.

He has a small heart murmer as well. We had him go through a sonogram for that about 4 months ago to make sure it wasn't anything overly serious.

My understanding of this is that the HT could possibly mask the severity of the CKD (not going into the science behind it as it's easy for anyone to look up themselves) so I'm a bit concerned that once the Methimazole kicks in his CKD numbers will elevate further.

He is not a candidate for surgical removal of the thyroid due to age and his preexisting heart health. Radiation treatment has not been discussed yet; the vet wants to see if the medication works first. It certainly will be less expensive (I've heard it costs around $2000 pretty much everywhere) and less trouble although the radiation would almost 100% cure him. Not a candidate for the special diet either for various reasons including healthy cats can't eat it and feeding our other one separately could be an issue because he tends to graze now instead of eat in one shot.

I'd like to hear from others their experience with this disease. I know it can NOT be ignored as the cat will waste away, which is utterly cruel to allow.

Any tips on pilling would be especially appreciated. He's gotten somewhat cranky in his old age (although the HT could be a cause of that, it's a symptom) and pilling him is very difficult. We don't want to have to hold him down and we tried compounding another medication a while back and discovered he really hates having his ears touched. Pill pockets would possibly work but unfortunately, I think all have poultry in them and we found out awhile ago he's allergic to it. This week he got smart about me hiding a tiny piece of Cerenia in some cream cheese, which never happened before, and kept spitting it out on the floor LOL.

Thanks in advance for any help, and encouragement you can give me. I haven't even told my husband the full extent of this as he has a very intense bond with Casper and he truly can't handle hearing that he might not be with us for much longer. I read up on life expectancy for cats his age with the concurrent health issues and well, it certainly is not optimistic past a year or so.
 

mrsgreenjeens

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
16,483
Purraise
7,300
Location
Arizona
What a shock to find out Casper has this issue along with everything else :hugs:. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with HyperT, although I do have quite a bit of experience with CKD. I just checked with our compounding pharmacy to see of perhaps they could compound the Methamazole into an injectable, which is how we gave our last CKD cat ALL of her meds, but, alas, they don't. They DO, however, make it in a "tastee chew". Not sure that will suffice,however, because when kidney cats don't feel well, they sometimes refuse to eat even their most favorite treats :sigh:

Some people use pill poppers and swear by them. Here are a couple of articles on pilling that might help:

How Can I Give A Pill To My Cat

Pilling Cats: Must-know Tips For Hiding Pills

:vibes::vibes::vibes:
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,434
Purraise
68,701
Location
North Carolina
Oddly, I actually can add to that! Usually mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens has said more than I could have hoped to ever say, and better for that matter. However, we were just discussing this in another thread, and it seems the 97% of cats who have the surgery are cured by it. Just keep that in the back of your mind.
 

LTS3

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
19,209
Purraise
19,696
Location
USA
Yes, both Pill Pocket varieties contain chicken:frustrated: I use this chicken-free pill dough Pill Paste for Cats - Bacon Flavored

There's a thread posted last night with a video of someone placing a wad of pate canned food with a crushed up pill inside directly into the cat's mouth. How We Give Our Pill Hating Cat A Pill

Would a flavored chewable treat work? Wedgwood Pharmacy has methimazole as a chewable treat and other forms Methimazole Medication & Information for Animals, Wedgewood Pet RX, Wedgewood Pet RX The tablets that dissolve instantly in the mouth look interesting. Not sure how well that will work for a cat who just wants to spit out anything yucky.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
What a shock to find out Casper has this issue along with everything else :hugs:. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with HyperT, although I do have quite a bit of experience with CKD. I just checked with our compounding pharmacy to see of perhaps they could compound the Methamazole into an injectable, which is how we gave our last CKD cat ALL of her meds, but, alas, they don't. They DO, however, make it in a "tastee chew". Not sure that will suffice,however, because when kidney cats don't feel well, they sometimes refuse to eat even their most favorite treats :sigh:

Some people use pill poppers and swear by them. Here are a couple of articles on pilling that might help:

How Can I Give A Pill To My Cat

Pilling Cats: Must-know Tips For Hiding Pills

:vibes::vibes::vibes:
Thank for your vibes and info. It's funny, right after I wrote all this I saw the other recent thread that had all the info about pilling in it. We'll be trying several of those tips out later this week!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
Oddly, I actually can add to that! Usually mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens has said more than I could have hoped to ever say, and better for that matter. However, we were just discussing this in another thread, and it seems the 97% of cats who have the surgery are cured by it. Just keep that in the back of your mind.
Yep, I've been doing research but unfortunately, my vet has already said his health has compromised him too much for any kind of surgery. He'll start the medication this Wednesday when we pick it up at his bi-weekly fluid appointment (we let the vet do instead of us, luckily, can afford that small luxury). Then we go back in a few weeks to see if its working (hopefully with little side effects also which she warned us about). We'll take it from there based on what she sees on new lab work.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
Yes, both Pill Pocket varieties contain chicken:frustrated: I use this chicken-free pill dough Pill Paste for Cats - Bacon Flavored

There's a thread posted last night with a video of someone placing a wad of pate canned food with a crushed up pill inside directly into the cat's mouth. How We Give Our Pill Hating Cat A Pill

Would a flavored chewable treat work? Wedgwood Pharmacy has methimazole as a chewable treat and other forms Methimazole Medication & Information for Animals, Wedgewood Pet RX, Wedgewood Pet RX The tablets that dissolve instantly in the mouth look interesting. Not sure how well that will work for a cat who just wants to spit out anything yucky.
Oh wow, thank you for the link to the Pill Paste. That looks VERY promising! He isn't allergic to anything in it.
I don't think anything he has to chew too much would work well; he's missing quite a few teeth now on top of all else. He's become quite the messy eater LOL.
FYI - despite of all this he still looks pretty good other than have lost a lot of weight in the past couple of years. Everyone can't believe he's 17.
37145986644_b33629b89e_o.jpg
 

LTS3

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
19,209
Purraise
19,696
Location
USA
My Aby loves the bacon dough so it's easy to get the pred into him :D The ingredient aren't great but a tiny bit daily isn't going to cause any harm, IMO. I tried a fish flavored one before but it was too dry and crumbly to mold around a pill.

Great picture of your cat in the box :D
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
My Aby loves the bacon dough so it's easy to get the pred into him :D The ingredient aren't great but a tiny bit daily isn't going to cause any harm, IMO. I tried a fish flavored one before but it was too dry and crumbly to mold around a pill.

Great picture of your cat in the box :D
Our cats are vying for Chewy spokesmodels :flail:
Bacon flavored would be awesome for him. He's all about the pork!
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
My senior girlie Simone also has CKD and HT, as well as elevated blood pressure.
Oh, let's not forget what I am sure is a bit of dementia....
It has been 2 1/2 yrs since the CKD diagnosis, and maybe 1 1/2 for the HT.
Not a chance of this stubborn kitty getting a pill down her highness's throat, and the stress caused her to start life under my bed, where I can't get to her, so it was the transdermal ear gel that has been great and stabilized her.
Be sure the vet starts at a conservative dose or you will see a change in behavior, sleepiness, disinterest, lack of appetite.
Even if the dose is not putting his levels where vet wants to see them right away, build up to it.
I keep her fed with fancy feast canned which she likes and keeps weight on her, not recommended but it's my choice to see her eat well and get the extra water intake the canned gives.
The pate flavors are mashed with extra water added in, nowadays sprinkling forti flora on top.
I do give her fluids, not as often as I need to be, she hates it and so do I.
So I am always aware of her need for water and any chance of getting extra in her I do.
Cats can live for several years with CKD and HT, as long as they are managed well.
There was not a significant change in kidney values when the methamizole was started either. I had that same fear too.
 

chris gadbois

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
89
Purraise
139
My girl Onyx just went in for the I-131 radiation for HT yesterday. (I'm awake at 2am cause I miss her right now). The Methimazole can be some pretty nasty stuff with regards to the side effects. I had to take Onyx off the meds within about 2 weeks of starting them. She was throwing up, scratching her face till she bled, etc....so be VERY aware of what side effects to be looking for. I know I sound alarmist, but only about 15% of cats have the adverse reaction to the meds, my Onyx was one of them.

That being said.....I just pulverised her pill and mixed it in with the gravy from her food....once the gravy was gone I would add her regular amount of food after...so that was easy. You can also have the med compounded into a liquid form which can be added to her food, or even a transdermal cream which can alternate rubbing into each ear. Some believe that the ear cream is the best because it lowers the chances of upsetting the gastrointestinal tract.

Feline Hyperthyroidism:

BTW - my Onyx is only 5yrs old with no kidney, heart or liver issues. So the I-131 is without question the way to go. (I can't wait to get he back on Saturday)

Best of luck with your baby.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
My senior girlie Simone also has CKD and HT, as well as elevated blood pressure.
Oh, let's not forget what I am sure is a bit of dementia....
It has been 2 1/2 yrs since the CKD diagnosis, and maybe 1 1/2 for the HT.
Not a chance of this stubborn kitty getting a pill down her highness's throat, and the stress caused her to start life under my bed, where I can't get to her, so it was the transdermal ear gel that has been great and stabilized her.
Be sure the vet starts at a conservative dose or you will see a change in behavior, sleepiness, disinterest, lack of appetite.
Even if the dose is not putting his levels where vet wants to see them right away, build up to it.
I keep her fed with fancy feast canned which she likes and keeps weight on her, not recommended but it's my choice to see her eat well and get the extra water intake the canned gives.
The pate flavors are mashed with extra water added in, nowadays sprinkling forti flora on top.
I do give her fluids, not as often as I need to be, she hates it and so do I.
So I am always aware of her need for water and any chance of getting extra in her I do.
Cats can live for several years with CKD and HT, as long as they are managed well.
There was not a significant change in kidney values when the methamizole was started either. I had that same fear too.
Great info, thank you. Our vet practice is remarkably great and the one that works with Casper mostly knows him very well and, has had experience with her own cats and similar diseases. I'm very comfortable with her recommendations and we always chat about pros/cons. She's very open to hearing from us.
He currently eats Fancy Feast also (only the beef one now - sometimes fish pate but he's not nuts about it), Lotus Juicy Pork and a couple of others he usually won't turn his nose up at. He used to be a very good eater but has gotten more picky due to his conditions. I use nutritional yeast as a topper to get his interest up when it lags.
Good to hear that lifespan isn't as bad as I thought it was, at his age getting another couple of years would be icing on the cake as he's already a very old boy. We are committed to managing him as long as need be.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
My girl Onyx just went in for the I-131 radiation for HT yesterday. (I'm awake at 2am cause I miss her right now). The Methimazole can be some pretty nasty stuff with regards to the side effects. I had to take Onyx off the meds within about 2 weeks of starting them. She was throwing up, scratching her face till she bled, etc....so be VERY aware of what side effects to be looking for. I know I sound alarmist, but only about 15% of cats have the adverse reaction to the meds, my Onyx was one of them.

That being said.....I just pulverised her pill and mixed it in with the gravy from her food....once the gravy was gone I would add her regular amount of food after...so that was easy. You can also have the med compounded into a liquid form which can be added to her food, or even a transdermal cream which can alternate rubbing into each ear. Some believe that the ear cream is the best because it lowers the chances of upsetting the gastrointestinal tract.

Feline Hyperthyroidism:

BTW - my Onyx is only 5yrs old with no kidney, heart or liver issues. So the I-131 is without question the way to go. (I can't wait to get he back on Saturday)

Best of luck with your baby.
I had seen your thread right after I started this one. I'm so sorry to hear Onyx is dealing with HT, far too young!

The vet did caution us of side effects. We're used to him vomiting due to the CKD, so it would just be more of the same. She mentioned the itching to us and we'll be on the lookout. Doesn't sound like you're an alarmist at all to me - just realistic which I appreciate. He'll be on a very lose dose to begin since his T4 is still not in the elevated range.

The gravy sounds like a good trick. I could easily make one of those dry gravy packages from Knorrs and portion it out. It's certainly cheap enough.

We had tried transdermal cream some time ago but as I wrote, found out he really hates having his ears touched! Paws are ok, but no ears lol. Our other cat is the opposite!
 

molly92

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
1,689
Purraise
1,565
Location
Michigan
My 16 year old has early stage ckd and hyperthroidism. We're doing the radio iodine treatment in a couple of weeks. We didn't stay on the methimazole for very long because I knew I wanted to do the radio iodine anyway. It's the safest and most effective option by far. It is expensive, but Wendy is a fighter and I want to give her the best chance to be happy and healthy for as long as she can.

A benefit of doing a methimazole trial first is that you should get an idea what her kidney numbers would look like if you went ahead with radio iodine. Yes, the numbers will probably be worse, but letting hyperthroidism progress takes a huge toll on the entire body.

Some of his heart problems might also get better after treatment, because hyperthroidism can contribute to those too.
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
Very true, HT takes their systems/organs to a new level of work, keeping them in constant high gear basically, working overtime, overworking them. Which is why the kidney values appear to be better than what they may actually be once the HT is controlled.
As I mentioned, luckily Simone's values were about the same post methimazole.
Also once the T4 is where it should be you may very well see improvements with the heart, etc.
This is Simone.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,270
Purraise
5,243
Location
New Jersey
Very true, HT takes their systems/organs to a new level of work, keeping them in constant high gear basically, working overtime, overworking them. Which is why the kidney values appear to be better than what they may actually be once the HT is controlled.
As I mentioned, luckily Simone's values were about the same post methimazole.
Also once the T4 is where it should be you may very well see improvements with the heart, etc.
This is Simone.
Simone is gorgeous! :hearthrob:
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
Thank you!!
When she was her own groomer she was even prettier, but she is still a beauty. I don't get to see her gorgeous baby blues much anymore since her pupils are usually covering the blue mostly :(
She's a real sweetheart too. Gentle and very feminine.
 
Top