How Many Is Too Many?

[MistyDawn]

I am running a small rescue (no more than ten at a time; we plan to upgrade to a larger house next year so we can do more), along with having 8 permakitties.

Everyone is vaccinated, well vetted, and spayed/neutered besides the little ones, who are nearly four months old and will be done in a month (I kept my first pulled rescue litter, out of sentiment; before that, I had four. I wanted them to remind me when times are hard what I'm fighting for and why I do what I do.) I work from home on graphics/webwork/a little programming and thus can spend time with everyone.

All four grown-ups even play a role in my rescue. Their personalities work perfectly to help me. The big, friendly Hex is the welcome cat. When kittens are ready to roam the house after FIV/FLV tests, removal of all parasites, and full treatment of any infections, he is kind to them and shows them the ropes. He got cat of the week here for his love of kittens. He's friendly with adults too, and just an "everyone's buddy" cat. I attribute this to him being half Maine Coon. Magick, a very playful young adult who's a little on the special side, is my escapee catcher. Whenever a kitten escapes the kitten quarantine room, he pounces and holds them for me. He loves to play with the kittens too, as the adults don't want to play with him as much as he'd like. Mystic is very loving and grooms babies once she gets to know them, and they her. The large and slightly scary Fang, the grumpy senior, is my anti bully bouncer. If any cats think they're going to bully anyone, he's takes no crap, but at the same time, isn't aggressive enough to seriously hurt another cat. He's mostly just very imposing and growly.

The kittens are all being very cat socialized and everyone seems to be having a good life. We have plenty of cat trees, toys, and places reserved for cats to be alone (we leave cabinets empty for them, complete with bedding, as well as cat cubes and enclosed cat beds.)

Does my situation seem like a problem? While my place isn't huge, it's decent sized, and we are upgrading to a multi story house next year that they'll have free roam of. Cherry on the cake: My husband plans to build a fully fenced, hard bottom, enclosed top outdoor play zone at the new place. It'll have tunnels, things to climb, and basically every kind of cat platform, box, tube, toys, and sunning surface you can imagine, as well as being as inescapable as Fort Knox. It'll be wonderful for them.

 

[Jill McGinley]

I think as long as they get your attention and some personal alone time when they need it that it's completely fine. You just want to make sure that you are taking care of yourself and getting some "me time" in. <3

 

[GoldyCat]

It sounds like you're doing well right now. Just be sure you stick to your limits. If you start taking "just one more" you could eventually end up in trouble.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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MistyDawn - It sounds as though your situation really isn't causing any problems for yourselves or for the cats, and with the prospect of a larger house, what small problems there might be will be even further mitigated by the increase in space (and by their outdoor playground).

I work from home as well (although I'm semi-retired) and have ten cats currently, in an eight bedroom, 5,200 (or roughly 500 m²) square foot residence, and as a general rule, at least six of them are piled onto a single sofa, in a one meter square lump, for most of the day and night. My tips and trick for a happy clowder:

Windowsill perches, widened and carpeted, make for kontented kitties.

Hardwood floors - finished in marine varnish, or a similar synthetic waterproof finish - ceramic or polished stone flooring make cleanups far easier, and offer the benefit of comic relief as the cats careen across them at full speed, clawing madly to gain purchase on the slippery surfaces, and then go caroming off the walls like furry, demented billiard balls.

A room or two devoted to kitty playhouses, replete with cat trees, cardboard boxes and tunnels, is a wonderful addition, despite the fact that no kitties will ever use the playrooms, preferring rather to play exactly where you need to be working.

Lastly: Off-Limits Zones. These include your plate while you're eating, the fireplaces when there are fires burning, and the stove when in use. Otherwise, they have the run of the house, and even the housekeepers have come to understand that one dusts or polishes around a kitty, rather than disturbing a kitty to dust or polish under it... and let's face it... with ten cats, anyone attempting to clean anything is simply doing a vague imitation of Sisyphus, eh?
.

 

[houseofnine]

Hi MistyDawn,
This all sounds wonderful and healthy to me. I have 9 residents and recently took in another semiferal family of a mom with 3 kittens. Hubs and I, like you, kept our first foster family of 5 (another semiferal mom and 4 kittens in 2013). We're keeping the latest mom, at least for socialization til she can possibly be adopted, and one kitten. The other two kittens are really bonded to each other, so are going to a loving and stable adopter. We have a lot of cats in a 1600 sq ft ranch, but amazingly almost all of them get along, all the time. I won't say we don't have any political pee incidents, but it could be a lot worse. I guess I just wanted to say it sounds like you have a healthy living situation and thank you for doing good things for our furry friends.

 

[Willowy]

I have 20 . It sounds like you have everything under control. I will say, be careful about keeping entire litters. You can only do that once or maybe twice before things get out of hand! Keeping one from a particularly special litter is better. Kittens are easier to re-home so it's usually best to place everyone you can so you have room for the unadoptable adults.

 

[dahli6]

I have 20 . It sounds like you have everything under control. I will say, be careful about keeping entire litters. You can only do that once or maybe twice before things get out of hand! Keeping one from a particularly special litter is better. Kittens are easier to re-home so it's usually best to place everyone you can so you have room for the unadoptable adults.

You make me feel better. I also have 20.

 

[basscat]

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MistyDawn -

Lastly: Off-Limits Zones. These include your plate while you're eating, the fireplaces when there are fires burning, and the stove when in use.
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I'm not sure if it was a lesson learned, or they just know? Ours will jump on ANYTHING except the wood stove..and a favorite place to lay is close to the stove in the winter.
Same with the fireplace. "Gotta stick my nose up there to see what that flame is all about, but, not too close...and I want to lay right in front of it.
They won't get near the cooking stove if it's hot. Or the griddle, even with bacon grease still on it.

I'm not sure if they just know? Or have tried it "once"?

Oh, I've only got three at the house, but, they aren't allowed to mingle, and one is bonkers...so, it's kinda the same as 200.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Oh, I've only got three at the house, but, they aren't allowed to mingle, and one is bonkers...so, it's kinda the same as 200...

...plus that freakin' Bobcat.
.

 

[basscat]

...plus that freakin' Bobcat.
.

I counted him. 3 cats, He's 180 of the 3.

 

[MistyDawn]

Wow, for some reason I didn't get any notifications on this. Boo. Okay, now I owe many responses, haha. First of all, thank all of you, even those I don't quote directly, for your kind words of support. I've just used this site when I needed it in the past but I'm coming to love this community!

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MistyDawn - It sounds as though your situation really isn't causing any problems for yourselves or for the cats, and with the prospect of a larger house, what small problems there might be will be even further mitigated by the increase in space (and by their outdoor playground).

I work from home as well (although I'm semi-retired) and have ten cats currently, in an eight bedroom, 5,200 (or roughly 500 m²) square foot residence, and as a general rule, at least six of them are piled onto a single sofa, in a one meter square lump, for most of the day and night. My tips and trick for a happy clowder:

Windowsill perches, widened and carpeted, make for kontented kitties.

Hardwood floors - finished in marine varnish, or a similar synthetic waterproof finish - ceramic or polished stone flooring make cleanups far easier, and offer the benefit of comic relief as the cats careen across them at full speed, clawing madly to gain purchase on the slippery surfaces, and then go caroming off the walls like furry, demented billiard balls.

A room or two devoted to kitty playhouses, replete with cat trees, cardboard boxes and tunnels, is a wonderful addition, despite the fact that no kitties will ever use the playrooms, preferring rather to play exactly where you need to be working.

Lastly: Off-Limits Zones. These include your plate while you're eating, the fireplaces when there are fires burning, and the stove when in use. Otherwise, they have the run of the house, and even the housekeepers have come to understand that one dusts or polishes around a kitty, rather than disturbing a kitty to dust or polish under it... and let's face it... with ten cats, anyone attempting to clean anything is simply doing a vague imitation of Sisyphus, eh?
.

You've just given me some great ideas for our current place. We rent (with a seriously cool landlord who knows what we are doing) and can't put any holes in the walls for nailing cat shelves. . . But we have a sliding glass door we never, ever use that gets lots of sun. I married a handyman who enjoys building things. He could build a wooden self-supporting platform in front of that window, and we could put some padding over it and black fabric on top, both to make it look nice and to absorb heat! We all know how cats like to lie on warm things. They would love that. Maybe even put some sturdy raised platforms coming off of it, wrap the supports in rope for climbing/claw sharpening, and put some platforms at different heights. My MC mix loooooves heights, and so does one of my home seeking babies right now (he's actually reserved. A friend babysat our cats while hubby and I went on an anniversary vacation. He fell in love with two of our babies and is adopting both. We are just neutering him first and the adopter is discussing with his landlord, and finding another place to live if he says no, haha.) But even in our current situation, this could be a fun new thing for my babies. They'd love a "sunning porch". We could even hang a few toys from the platforms. I love this idea. Thank you!

We may be able to attach something to make the windowsill platform bigger, too, in the same vein. Maybe build a support system through wall hooks, but there'd have to be a lot of support. Our biggest jumper is at least fifteen pounds. My husband is good at this stuff and could engineer something. If nothing else, the dining room table, which is never used, is right under a big window and gets a lot of sun. I could fix it up and make it more cat friendly, or use it for part of a window hangout support.

Everyone tends to congregate on my bed, especially the babies. They have roam of the house but this batch loves people and want to stay by my side. They will make someone such great cats one day. I'm excited for these babies. If anyone is looking to adopt, (wink wink) this might be the best batch I've had yet. Also, one unrelated kitten has Savannah blood (which basically means he's just a high gen Savannah if I understand how this works). His size, ears, build, pattern, color, and wild ways say it all, but he's a bully, even to larger adults, and needs to go to a single cat home. Husband is a trucker so we deliver all over eastern half of the USA, as long as you pass a background check, an interview, and a conversation with your vet.

And wherever we're eating, usually the bedroom, is off limits while we are eating, and the adults all know the pattern by now. The kittens have to be manually moved, haha.

Hi MistyDawn,
This all sounds wonderful and healthy to me. I have 9 residents and recently took in another semiferal family of a mom with 3 kittens. Hubs and I, like you, kept our first foster family of 5 (another semiferal mom and 4 kittens in 2013). We're keeping the latest mom, at least for socialization til she can possibly be adopted, and one kitten. The other two kittens are really bonded to each other, so are going to a loving and stable adopter. We have a lot of cats in a 1600 sq ft ranch, but amazingly almost all of them get along, all the time. I won't say we don't have any political pee incidents, but it could be a lot worse. I guess I just wanted to say it sounds like you have a healthy living situation and thank you for doing good things for our furry friends.

I just wanted to say your situation sounds awesome. Isn't it wonderful to go to sleep with a bed full of them every night?

Oddly there's no pee politics here. I think what prevents that is that we have a king here, and he's basically indisputable. If ever a cat was built for killing, it's this cat. Massive teeth and claws, 17lbs of muscle, takes no crap. He doesn't hurt anyone but he could if he wanted to, badly. He's very intimidating if you're a cat, and even bullies back down and become submissive to him.

Also can I just say the term "pee politics" sums up politics today with humans pretty well, haha.

I have 20 . It sounds like you have everything under control. I will say, be careful about keeping entire litters. You can only do that once or maybe twice before things get out of hand! Keeping one from a particularly special litter is better. Kittens are easier to re-home so it's usually best to place everyone you can so you have room for the unadoptable adults.

Phew, you make me feel so much better. Plus, my mom has fifteen in a two story home and still independently fosters AL kittens until I can take them to MI.

Yeah, I kept my first litter for sentimental value, but my husband's and my motto is "8 is enough." Haha. We are staunchly against keeping any more or taking more than 10 at a time for rescue. . . At least until we have a nicer place, then maybe one more can stay, but I want most of that place for rescue. I want to build it into a haven. I can't wait til the day we have room and fosters up north so we can call shelters and say "Bring us 20 your 20 sweetest cats healthy enough to handle a semi truck ride to MI." They said they're willing to meet us hours away if need be. I want to clean AL and take pets away from a state that mostly doesn't deserve them. I have some invaluable allies down there who make this possible, but the majority of people are horrible in their treatment of animals, especially cats, which they perceive as "useless".

I counted him. 3 cats, He's 180 of the 3.

I'd love a picture of him. My family had a half bobcat (or at least they think he was -- can Bobcats and house cats produce offspring?) fall into our lap as a kid. He looked exactly what you'd imagine a mix of the two would look like. Bob tail, same stripes, huge head with fringe fur, deep, loud calls I wouldn't really even call a meow, even after neutering. Just a little smaller and lacking a few bobcat features. He was beautiful, and so sweet.

 

[basscat]

I'd love a picture of him. My family had a half bobcat (or at least they think he was -- can Bobcats and house cats produce offspring?) fall into our lap as a kid. He looked exactly what you'd imagine a mix of the two would look like. Bob tail, same stripes, huge head with fringe fur, deep, loud calls I wouldn't really even call a meow, even after neutering. Just a little smaller and lacking a few bobcat features. He was beautiful, and so sweet.

I personally don't think Lynx/Housecat are mixable. But, there are lots of exotic cats that are, and somewhere down the line, if you don't know the lineage....a bobcat/lynx appearance can be seen. (If you're looking for bob, you see bob. If you're looking for tiger, you see tiger).
Most bobs and lynx squeak when the vocalize. If they growl, it's not a deep tone...more of nasty sounding squeaky growl whine. And, they BARK sometimes. It'll be just one, a single... "woof"...sounds just like a puppy. And they purr almost loud enough to vibrate the windows.
They also bite...and bite some more...and then they bite. Oh, and they bite. EVERYTHING!!!

 

[basscat]

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

-- can Bobcats and house cats produce offspring?)

MistyDawn - Bobcats are a completely different species than are domestic cats, and in fact, the two come from entirely different genera. Hybrid breeders in America have tried since the late 1940s to produce a Bobcat x Domestic Cat cross - ever since Jean Mill, who developed the Bengal breed, published her Dissertation at U.C. Davis on the subject of crossbreeding cats - and in thousands of attempts, no successful pairing has ever been documented.
.

 

[basscat]

MistyDawn - Bobcats are a completely different species than are domestic cats, and in fact, the two come from entirely different genera. Hybrid breeders in America have tried since the late 1940s to produce a Bobcat x Domestic Cat cross - ever since Jean Mill, who developed the Bengal breed, published her Dissertation at U.C. Davis on the subject of crossbreeding cats - and in thousands of attempts, no successful pairing has ever been documented.
.

Sure would be cool if it was possible!!
With my luck, I'd have a cat that looked just like a tabby that would never stop, never slow down, bite everything in sight, eat the furniture, jump on everyone's head, and defend his food like it was his life. LOL

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Sure would be cool if it was possible!!
With my luck, I'd have a cat that looked just like a tabby that would never stop, never slow down, bite everything in sight, eat the furniture, jump on everyone's head, and defend his food like it was his life. LOL

basscat - No; with your luck, you'd end up with three of them.
.

 

[kittylove14]

I think it sounds good. I have 6 of my own in 1650 sq ft and they have four cat trees now and lots of space to be on their own. But they enjoy following me around the house (we are all upstairs. now we are all downstairs. )
Off limits are the laundry room and guest rooms as well as the guest bathrooms and pantry. Otherwise their favorite spots are my bedroom bed, the couch, the table, or the scratchers. I have one that thinks the area rug is her own personal zone.
My older big cats also took to the little ones like yours did. One was the daddy sweet to all. The other was the momma cleaning all of the kitties. I don't think you'll have a problem fostering and adopting out IMHO.