how do i diet my cat

[just mike]

Sorry, Waltham is Owned by Mars, Incorporated. One of Mars brand is Pedigree..... another...... Nutro

So, Mars not only Owns Waltham, but it also owns Nutro.... If you want me to make clear why I posted that, I will, with all due respect. I do find it very biased every time you post a citation, a study from Waltham, a research institute that is not only hired to do research FOR the company you work for, but is also owned by the same parent Company Nutro is owned by. I can't help it but find that biased - I find their research biased in the first place, the same way as I find Hills reasearch FOR Hills Pet food biased towards their food. So, to me, those citations and studies have no validity, as they were hired for a purpose.
And yes, Cats as obligates carnivore do not have the necessary enzymes to metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables and get the nutrients they need from that to thrive - there is no use for it in their diet.
Survive on it - yeah......sure...... we see millions of them surviving...... Until they hit problems. Thrive - nah.
This has been discussed quite extensively here in the raw thread, but you can start by reading this... if you want http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FEEDING YOUR CAT 8-10 Long 2-12-10.pdf
this http://cats.about.com/od/catfoodfaqs/f/obligatecarnivores.htm
Hope you find Cornell to be reliable http://www.vet.cornell.edu/FHC/brochures/feedcats.html
Nutrition of the domestic cat, a mammalian carnivore. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6380542
Diet in the prevention of diabetes and obesity in companion animals. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15023591
It is not hard to find information about Cats as obligate carnivores IF you want it - it means that they are made to eat, and get their nutrition from meat.

Yes, Waltham was acquired by Mars.  Waltham was before Mars bought them, and still is, considered one of the leading edge centers on pet nutrition and pet nutrition research... in the world. You can find it as biased as you want when I quote Waltham, but I'm quoting scientific facts and studies which are verifiable.  I am not quoting ancedotal evidence from someone's blog or information found on some vague Internet site.  I can not speak for Hill's.  Pedigree, Nutro, Royal Canin, Waltham etc.  are umbrella companies of Mars.  What does this mean...  Hmmm.... Mars is a privately held company.  Family owned.  There are no stockholders to answer to. Every company owned by Mars is it's own entity.  I will speak only for Nutro.  Nutro is a stand alone company.  We make all of our food at our own manufacturing plants.  We can trace every ingredient to it's source.  We are 8 times above  AAFCO standards and the only pet food company with AFIA certification. We also sponsor the Search Dog Foundation.

There is no need to be condescending about cats being obligate carnivores.  I'm going to ignore those remarks because I read your posts and respect your "opinions".  Of course cats are obligate carnivores. You are wasting your time telling me that and wasting your time writing it to me.  I will read the Cornell link.  I have already read the gov pubs you posted.  Actually I may have already read the Cornell article but will not know until I look at it.

I simply asked you to find me links to back up the quote you made earlier.  So far in the gov publication I see nothing that backs up your statement.  I will read the Cornell article when I get some free time to see if it backs up your earlier statement.

Edit:

In case you don't recall the quote I am referring to, this is the post you made - "they simply can not metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables (where the carbs in commercial diets come from)"

 

[carolina]

Did you not read this?

The formation of distinct breeds and the selection for breed-specific exterior traits over the past 50 years are unlikely to have resulted in major changes in the physiology and metabolism of certain breeds, as pedigree breeds are described as simple single-gene variants of natural breeds(10).
The domestic cat’s wild ancestors are known to be obligatory carnivores, consuming predominantly prey. The consumption of a diet composed of animal tissues throughout evolution has led to unique digestive and metabolic adaptations (often referred to as idiosyncrasies)(11 – 14). Reduction of redundant enzymes and modification of enzyme activities will have had specific advantages in terms of energy expenditure (11). Examples of these adaptations include:

(a) The high dietary protein requirement as a consequence of a limited ability to decrease the enzyme activity of amino acid-catabolising enzymes below a certain threshold in response to a lowered protein intake(11). The fact that other carnivorous animals, including fish and birds, have developed the same adaptations in protein metabolism(15 – 17) indicates an advantage to carnivorous species in general.

(b) An inability for de novo arginine synthesis because of reduced activity of two enzymes in the intestinal pathway of citrulline synthesis (pyrroline 5-carboxylate synthase and ornithine aminotransferase)(11).

(c) Two key enzymes in the pathway for taurine synthesis, namely cysteine dioxygenase and cysteinesulfinic acid decarboxylase, show low activities, thereby greatly reducing the endogenous synthesis of taurine and making this sulfonic amino acid an essential dietary nutrient for cats(11). In addition, cats and dogs use taurine almost exclusively as a source for bile acid conjugation, unlike other animals, which can use glycine when taurine is limiting(11).

(d) Cats are unable to use carotenoids to synthesise retinol because of a lack of carotene dioxygenase(11).

(e) Synthesis of vitamin D3 is prevented by the high activity of 7-dehydrocholestrol reductase, an enzyme that reduces the availability of the precursor for 25-hydroxyvitamin D(18).

(f) Cats are not able to synthesise niacin from tryptophan because of an extremely high activity of picolinic carboxylase. The activity of this enzyme is inversely related to niacin synthesis(11).

(g) Cats have a limited ability to synthesise arachidonic acid from linoleic acid, attributed to a low activity of D-6 and
D-8-desaturase(11,19).

(h) Cats show several adaptations in the metabolism of starch and glucose, including a lack of salivary amylase activity, low activity of pancreatic and intestinal amylases (20,21), low hepatic glucokinase activity(22), lack of hepatic fructokinase activity, necessary for metabolism of simple sugars(21,23) and a non-functional Tas1R2 receptor resulting in an inability to taste sugar(24).

The above-mentioned adaptations are thought to have evolved from nutrition solely based on animal tissues and highlight the carnivorous nature of cats.

Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats
Esther A. Plantingaa1 c1, Guido Boscha2 and Wouter H. Hendriksa1a2
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8404219

That they are descended from a specialist predator is readily apparent from their dentition (3), which is dominated by large canines, used to sever the neck vertebrae of mammalian prey, and carnassials for shearing flesh from bone; the incisors and molars are relatively small. Unlike wolves, they are exclusively solitary hunters, and therefore usually take prey with much lower body-mass than their own, necessitating several kills per day. This is reflected in the ad libitum meal-patterning of domestic cats, which take several small meals, spread throughout the 24 h of the day (24).

However, domestic cats are more fundamentally constrained in their choice of foods by the absence of certain key metabolic enzymes, which appear to have been lost in the common ancestor of all of the extant species in the cat family. These losses result in very narrowly defined nutritional requirements (25), which in the wild can be satisfied only by a diet that consists largely of vertebrate prey.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/7/1927S.long
[emoji]169[/emoji] 2006 American Society for Nutrition

The Evolutionary Basis for the Feeding Behavior of Domestic Dogs (Canis familiaris) and Cats (Felis catus)1–3

John W. S. Bradshaw4

Waltham, being owned by Mars, owner of several Pet Food Brands, such as Nutro, Pedigree, and others, is, IMHO biased. You can say whatever you want, but by being owned by the same parent co., IMHO their researches, their publications, having the capability of affecting the profitability of their brands, it is only natural to be biased. That can be true for them and any other research facility owned by a Pet Food manufacturer.

There is a main difference in between digesting and metabolizing. Please note I did not say "Digest" - yes, they can digest. However, because they lack several enzymes in their digestive tract as an obligate carnivore, they can not metabolize nutrients from those foods. Enzymes are crucial in metabolizing nutrients, as you are probably aware. That is different.

 

[carolina]

There is no need to be condescending about cats being obligate carnivores.  I'm going to ignore those remarks because I read your posts and respect your "opinions".  Of course cats are obligate carnivores. You are wasting your time telling me that and wasting your time writing it to me.

Good, we both agree on something. Now, can you please explain to me, since cats are obligate/strict carnivores, the benefits for fruits, vegetables and grains in their diets? :scratch:

 

[ldg]

I'm curious too, but would like to add, benefits apart from cost and convenience. Benefits that relate to the health of the cat....and not the kibble-for-dental health, because eating bones and/or chewing chunks of meat in a species appropriate manner achieves the same thing without the Carbs and high heat processing.

 

[pushylady]

Lauraanne - good luck with putting Rosie on a diet! I know from experience it can be hard if you feel you're suddenly depriving them of their cherished treats. But you're doing a good thing by addressing her weight issues while she's still young and isn't huge and she will be happier for it in the long run.
You've got some good advice here about switching to all wet, and cutting her food back slowly.
Also what I do for my cats is give them some kibble as treats, but make them work for them. We throw a treat at a time across the floor and they chase them down. This actually makes them burn off calories, balancing out a bit what they get from the kibble. You may want to try that with Rosie to give her her treats still and have a playtime with you, but not gain weight from them.

 

[ckovacs]

I cannot even tell you how hard it is to diet some cats. Out of my 3 boys, only 1 is a food monster. He's so bad that if he is wanting food and it isn't feeding time, he will eat plastic if he can find it, or even rubber bands. Luckily, we don't leave those things around. But he will eat carpet fibers if he can. 

What we have found works is so simple that I wish I had figured it out ages ago.

1. We do timed feeding. We never leave his daily amount down for him because he will eat it in roughly one sitting and then be starving.

2. We have figured out that even if we drop 6-10 kibble in his bowl, he thinks that is just the most wonderful thing in the world.

3. We feed him Wellness Core. Makes him feel more full, for longer.

4. We give him is largest feeding before bed so that at night he isn't eating the house.

So what I do is feed him a little scoop of food with his lysine powder in the morning. Then at around 1pm I give him his 6-10 kibble. Then at closer to 5pm he gets another scoop of food, but it's even smaller than the morning. Which is I'd say closer to 1/8th of a cup. Maybe a tad more. I use a 1/4 cup but I shake it off quite a lot.

And then from there he's fine until his bedtime feeding, which is at about 10pm.

He has dropped a couple of lbs since being on WC and he hasn't fussed as much since introducing this regimen. 

This works for us, but it may not work for you. Best thing to do is test every measure.

 

[catzlife2]

I used to buy supermarket dry food, but realized after looking after the ingredients and fillers, I went to buy all natural food. WOW!! The ingredients are all vegetables and grain. My girl kitty, Sasha lost 9 pounds in 1 year. Of course, I make sure I play with them about 1/2 every day...make them run a lot if they are indoors.

 

[catzlife2]

Forgot to mention which food I buy - Innova Dry Senior Cat Food, purchased at Petsmart. Then fancy feast - 1/2 can each cat for the morning & same for the evening.