How Accurate are X-Rays for Determining Cat Pregnancy?

[hteft]

@sarthur2

@catwoman707

I agree,  the sooner the flat chests are corrected, the better. I called the vet today and was told that they don't treat flat chest until the kittens are older and stronger, typically around the age of 8 to 12 weeks. And then if they are flat chested, they typically perform surgery to correct it. I asked about bringing them in to be checked to see what they think and they told me that unless the kittens are sick or in distress they would rather I not bring them in at this point, because that young their immune system is weaker.Told me to bring them in when they are around 6 weeks old for a checkup and they would check then. I told them I was going to try corsets and they said it can't hurt, that is up to you. Is it me or is that kind of an odd reaction? I know some viruses are airborne, so in a way that does make sense. 

Catwoman, yes when they are eating, but sleeping also. I notice the two tiny's and one of the bigger ones breathe faster in their sleep. 

Yes I do want to go ahead with treating them now. The way I see it is that is the best route to take. 

I am still looking over the flat chest thread so once I have a basic understanding of how to make the little corsets, I will ask questions. I wanted to spend more time on that today, but earlier today was one of those days. 

The tiny's yes are eating great for me and nursing too. With flat chest is it easier for them to eat when they are upright? I noticed if I hold them facing me as though they were standing up, they eat better than if they are on their bellies. 

Today's weight gains were between .5 and .8 oz. The tiniest had his/her best gain yet! He/she gained .6 while the other tiny gained .5. 

 

[Sarthur2]

Weight gain is excellent. Eating upright is fine, just not on their backs.

Little Oliver caught a cold at the vet's office on another thread, so I think not going in is wise.

They probably won't need surgery. The corsets will do it. And quickly. The corsets are not difficult to make.

 

[catwoman707]

Just as I expected, no help at all. 

Kittens are growing at an astounding rate at this age, and in another week or 2, the kittens breathing will be so constricted they lack oxygen to their hearts and organs freely, and can die.

The only reason I see for the vet to want to wait would be the expensive surgery that's not even needed.

Now if it is an inverted chest, this can require surgery, but it doesn't appear they have that, plus even those can be corrected now with some.

 

[hteft]

I did see that about little Oliver. I do not want these two to get sick. I am still working out how to make a corset for them. I was thinking of the block paper with q-tips. Questions coming soon!!

 

[hteft]

@catwoman707  - I have been reading off/on today about the flat chest and I know that not everything you read online is accurate, but some of it has me concerned. Could putting a corset on the tiny's hurt them? I read an article located at  http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/health/page58/page108/page108.html that makes it sound like a corset (they call it splinting) can cause   the sternum inward rather than outward and kill the kittens. 

Is that true or one of those that doesn't really know what they are talking about? 

(Not trying to offend anyone, I am genuinely confused due to the fact that there is a lot of conflicting information online regarding flat chested syndrome.)

I am quoting you below from the other thread. I have question, when you use a bubble mailer to make a corset can you use bigger bubble wrap instead of the q-tips on the sides? 

I was also thinking of using the toilet paper roll and putting bubble wrap on the sides and tying the back. I can't use rubber bands unfortunately. I have a cat who would be in there going ballistic to get to the rubber band. 

I am trying to think up ideas on how to make the corset that will allow them to feed and move about. I figure I can use a sock over it to make a little jacket. 

Okay don't laugh!!

Hopefully it gives you an idea of how I would do it.

China Rose 027.JPG

• catwoman707
• Jan 15, 2015

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• catwoman707
• Jan 15, 2015

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• catwoman707
• Jan 15, 2015

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• catwoman707
• Jan 15, 2015

The first pic shows you how it would be worn, up over his back.

The second pic is the pattern/how to cut it out.

The third with the half q-tips shows where the support should go, from where to where, and the fourth is how the inside would be when wearing.

The pen marks on the ends is where it should be attached to something like a thick rubber band, it can be tied too but thought the rubber band for a bit of tension.

The lower end that will be on his chest will be open but is where it will attach together.

You see where the q-tips are is where you need the stiffness to be, so that when it is drawn together at his chest it will squeeze his ribcage slightly, just about the same amt of pressure you would use if holding the baby in your hand and with the other hand lightly squeezing his ribs together.

You can use this type of shape pattern and cut it out of anything, thick soft fabric I would use, fleece or thick sweatshirt fabric. Just not stretchy basically.

You can use anything for the supports, a piece of a popsicle stick, whatever, but best if sticks are attached to the outer side so he doesn't have wooden sticks poking his sides!

Just keep it soft, not tight just a bit of tension on it (which is why I'd try using a rubberband) and making sure whatever the stiff support that will be squeezing his ribs in is very well padded/soft.

He can even wear this all day long, just would check it often.

 

[catwoman707]

Oh my gosh those pics are almost embarrassing!

The bubble mailer was the first thing I grabbed to cut in to to show the op what I was trying to describe, as a pattern, but not actually to use a bubble mailer.

I wanted to show the shape you are looking for, the q-tips are to demonstrate where the straightness and support need to be focused on.

 

[catwoman707]

Here is another one who I recently helped through this.

However, I was not happy that she used a tp roll, because it is rounded and she ended up having to turn it inside out for it to work, which then it did.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/302464/raising-kittens-to-adulthood-with-mom/60

How you can easily tell if his chest is flat or if his sternum is going to cave inward when pressure is put on his ribs.

Take the baby in your left hand, his back on your palm so he is tummy up.

With your right hand, using your thumb and your first 2 fingers, gently squeeze his ribs together, very gently, they are flexible and should raise the sternum area a bit when you do this.

Stop googling things that are going to scare you. If you have flat chested kittens they need help now BEFORE it becomes life or death. 

In a few days time their chests will have reshaped enough to continue growing outward the way they are supposed to.

If you draw a teardrop, one end is rounded and one end is a point correct? This is the shape needed in a supportive vest. The pointed end will be the center of his chest, the rounded will be over his back.

You are not trying to squeeze his entire body, only reshaping his ribs to grow inward.

If I have time tmrw, well I will just make time, I will create a vest and take a picture of it.

I will use cardboard.

 

[hteft]

I just fed the two tiny's. Next time I feed them I will try what you were talking about with checking the sternum. Thank you for that.  I just went and read the other thread as well. I see what you mean about the tp roll would need to be inside out. And on the Google too. I was actually googling trying to get ideas for making the corset, which is how I came upon the junk. For the record, I really liked the design with the bubble mailer. It has padding and looks easy to make. 

That is awesome of you to do with making a vest so I can get a better idea. I tried to make two with cardboard and they didn't turn out right. There was no way either kitten would be able to nurse in what I made. Looked like the two had cardboard body casts on the upper part of their bodies. Pictures really help me get the idea. I have been trying to think of what other materials I could use other than cardboard. Going to try fleece or an old t-shirt tomorrow, with weatherstripping (yes seriously) for the side padding. The weatherstripping is the soft material one and the perfect width. It has a sticky back that I can just stick onto the corset.  In any case, I will keep going at it until I get it right and get them wearing them so their little chests can grow properly. 

 

[Sarthur2]

I hope you can get this sorted out today with Catwoman's help. The tinys really need to get into their vests ASAP so their ribs can change. They are in week two of life and it's very easy to mold their ribs right now.

 

[hteft]

I hope so too! We are having a bit of trouble making them correctly. Would wrapping their chests like a brace and then putting a little jacket over it work? We have been over the flat chested thread again and again. Going to try again after I eat. What kind of materials work best for the inner sides? In the pictures on the flat chest thread it looks like carpet inside the corset/jacket. One way or another with Catwoman's help we will get them made and these tiny's into them!

 

[catwoman707]

I will create one version of it and post a pic along with variations of materials you can use, right now.

 

[hteft]

Thank you so much!

 

[catwoman707]

Have you gently squeezed their ribs together yet?

I want you to see how soft and pliable they are, and that this will not cause the sternum to go inward.

Basically when you do squeeze and see the movement of the ribs, this should show you what you are needing to create.

Say that bubble mailer pictured is a piece of thicker, non stretchy fabric you cut out from something. Anything, an old pair of jeans even.

Not t-shirt fabric, it's too stretchy.

Just an oval oblong piece of whatever.

Okay, so here I used a piece of batting from a shoulder pad haha

Marked with a sharpee where the straight support needs to be.

It's going to go on the back, front is where it will close at his chest.

Arms go through the holes cut out so it stays in place.

Support can be a popsicle stick in half or anything literally, that will not bend, twigs from outside! It doesn't matter. As long as they won't bend.

Attach them where I marked and on the outside of the vest so nothing pokes him or is hard against the body.

fck vest 001.jpg

• catwoman707
• Sep 10, 2015

fck vest 002.jpg

• catwoman707
• Sep 10, 2015

Okay? The vest should be small, use baby to get the right idea of size needed. You will make the cut out so that his arms can go through, then the stiff non bending part starts after the armhole and joins together at the front. (his front.) You can attach them together with whatever, this is only going to take a few days to straighten out.

If you have held him and squeezed gently you would so understand the concept and goal in making a vest, you clearly need to duplicate the squeeze you did with your fingers without squeezing around the whole body.

 

[hteft]

This is great thank you! Yes I have and they are soft I see that they move easily. I see what we were doing wrong now. I imagine that fleece would be too stretchy too. I actually have small craft popsicle sticks that will probably work great on the sides. Going to go attempt this again. Thank you so much! Will post pics once we get them made. 

 

[catwoman707]

 
This is great thank you! Yes I have and they are soft I see that they move easily. I see what we were doing wrong now. I imagine that fleece would be too stretchy too. I actually have small craft popsicle sticks that will probably work great on the sides. Going to go attempt this again. Thank you so much! Will post pics once we get them made. 

Great! My hokey looking demo helped then!

Since you felt how soft and pliable they are, now you know also not to make it too tight, might need to b=double and triple check to be sure it's just the right amt of pressure, it should be just a very small amt at a time. Of course each day readjust since they do grow daily.

Be sure that there are no strings hanging when you tie it however, and that the sticks are not too long and well padded underneath.

Yes! Please post detailed pics so I can see how it fits.

 

[hteft]

I didn't think it was hokey at all! I was thinking gee that would be perfect! Can you look at these two pictures and tell me which version has the sticks placed right? I think they will have to be shortened. The tiny's are so small that putting a hole for the arms isn't working. What I was thinking of doing is once they are finished and in place on the tiny's, putting a sock over them so that no strings show, etc. 

20150911_003209.jpg

• hteft
• Sep 10, 2015

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• hteft
• Sep 10, 2015

The sticks are padded with weather stripping. I think I have the sticks too long though. Does either one have the correct placement on the sticks? 

 

[hteft]

I didn't think it was hokey at all! I was thinking gee that would be perfect! Can you look at these two pictures and tell me which version has the sticks placed right? I think they will have to be shortened. The tiny's are so small that putting a hole for the arms isn't working. What I was thinking of doing is once they are finished and in place on the tiny's, putting a sock over them so that no strings show, etc. 

20150911_003209.jpg

• hteft
• Sep 10, 2015

20150911_003216.jpg

• hteft
• Sep 10, 2015

The sticks are padded with weather stripping. I think I have the sticks too long though. Does either one have the correct placement on the sticks? 

@catwoman707 I was wondering what you think of these? Will either on work?

 

[Sarthur2]

catwoman707

See pictures above.

 

[catwoman707]

These both look good.

I would say the single stick vest, you can determine that the sticks are in the correct area on the rib cage when you try it on them.

Can I see one of them model it?

One problem you might have though, is there are no armholes, so it might scoot down off the ribs, especially a baby who isn't walking yet and is scooting around.

 

[hteft]

Sure! Give me 5 mins to put it on one and take pics