Hissing In The Circle Of Certain Death

[catsnip404]

@Pixies Ma

So glad for your breakthrough and glad that he's coming back around after your first attempts at trapping him!  I didn't doubt that he would, but glad to see it happening!  He clearly trusts you quite a lot!  That says very good things about you!  

Of course it's always nice that an indoor cat trust you, but it's quite another to gain the trust of a cat that lives one-day-at-a-time, never knowing who or what to trust.  And this cat has clearly chosen you, despite your attempts to catch him.  

He loves you, for sure.  

If he needs to stay out for the winter, there are heated beds, but even an enclosed cat bed will do.  He's already been out in it, so any improvement would likely be appreciated.

I'm so glad you're looking after the welfare of this sweet baby!  Hats off!

I will check out your new thread!

Heather

 

[pixies ma]

Hey Heather!

That cat trusts me more than i trust him. Maybe i'm being too cowardly, but both his and my cat's reaction to seeing each other and sniffing each other through a door kinda gave me the creeps. I see it as a thread not only to my cat, but also to the safety of my home, if that makes any sense. I'm the type of person who rarely invite friends over, as i enjoy my quiet cocoon. Cats are fairly new to me (i used to have dogs) and maybe i'll get used to it as i learn more about them, but now  must admit i feel a bit overwhelmed.
And sometimes a tell myself that if i simply provide him with a couple good meals each day, Revolution each month, and a winter shelter for warmth and petting sessions for warmth too, that would be enough. That i don't have to feed him on my balcony so he doesn't claim it as much and feed him in the yard instead. Then again, i can't leave food out for him down there as there are fat owned cats that come steal it and i can't afford to feed all the neighbors cats Taste of the wild. Though he's been chasing them off more and more, as he settles in my area. I have yet to decide where i will put his shelter. My porch would be best for me, but not for my cat. Down in the yard under the heating vent where there is hardly any snow would be good, but i don't want skunks to take it for themselves and have to get dressed and go 2 flights of stairs several times a day to check up on him and feed him. Yes, i'm a bit lazy.
I want to do what's best for both my cat and the feral, as well as for myself. And i don't want to take away from him what i have been giving him cause as you think and as i see it, that cat really likes me and is becoming more dependent on me.
And the trapping...that's another stress and worry. He really needs to be vetted and neutered.
But yeah, i like him too. I consider it an honor he warmed up to me and feels safe in the area. It touches me when i see him pop by every night at specific times at specific places.
I can't not help him.

 

[pixies ma]

 
When I first started this thread, I didn't know how people would take it, especially with the title being so "odd", and there were only a few responses in the beginning.

The title is what reeled me in!

 

[Alicia88]

 
Hey Heather!

That cat trusts me more than i trust him. Maybe i'm being too cowardly, but both his and my cat's reaction to seeing each other and sniffing each other through a door kinda gave me the creeps. I see it as a thread not only to my cat, but also to the safety of my home, if that makes any sense. I'm the type of person who rarely invite friends over, as i enjoy my quiet cocoon. Cats are fairly new to me (i used to have dogs) and maybe i'll get used to it as i learn more about them, but now  must admit i feel a bit overwhelmed.
And sometimes a tell myself that if i simply provide him with a couple good meals each day, Revolution each month, and a winter shelter for warmth and petting sessions for warmth too, that would be enough. That i don't have to feed him on my balcony so he doesn't claim it as much and feed him in the yard instead. Then again, i can't leave food out for him down there as there are fat owned cats that come steal it and i can't afford to feed all the neighbors cats Taste of the wild. Though he's been chasing them off more and more, as he settles in my area. I have yet to decide where i will put his shelter. My porch would be best for me, but not for my cat. Down in the yard under the heating vent where there is hardly any snow would be good, but i don't want skunks to take it for themselves and have to get dressed and go 2 flights of stairs several times a day to check up on him and feed him. Yes, i'm a bit lazy.
I want to do what's best for both my cat and the feral, as well as for myself. And i don't want to take away from him what i have been giving him cause as you think and as i see it, that cat really likes me and is becoming more dependent on me.
And the trapping...that's another stress and worry. He really needs to be vetted and neutered.
But yeah, i like him too. I consider it an honor he warmed up to me and feels safe in the area. It touches me when i see him pop by every night at specific times at specific places.
I can't not help him.

Don't worry, I'm lazy, too.  I wouldn't want to walk two flights of stairs even once a day.  LOL

 

[pixies ma]

I know right? With all the the snow i'd have to remove several times too. Urgh...

 

[susanhumeston]

When I introduced 2 twin brother kittens to our present cats, Squee, my Maine Coon mix, hissed and growled at them.  Before the week was out, he was their uncle Squee and still is, two years later. 

 

[crackerjack4u]

 
Alicia, he did it again yesterday. He was not happy. I had the audacity of stroking his side while he was laying down, begging for rubs. I think my arm was in the general area of his side the first time too. Guess it's a sensitive spot. He is mad with affection one second, then BAM! Full feral mode. But that's ok, i get it. I'm like that with men 

​Our Feral does/did this too.  I think during the petting, especially with a feral, that are not use to a lot of human interaction, or any interaction at all.  So they tend to get Over Stimulated fairly quickly which often leads to a pretty hard bite, and sometimes a slap, as a warning that it's now time to stop the petting. 

I've learned to give my feral a little bit of petting, and then to stop, and allow her to come over and rub on me if she wants additional attention.  I've received some pretty hard warnings from her, some that have drawn the blood, and how hard she bites/slaps etc. is something we continue to work on, but it's almost now non existent. (She has come a long way from where she started, and she continues to do better everyday).    When she bites, or slaps too hard I always correct her with a firm NO.  I then remove my hand away from her to not reinforce her too rough warning.  After she flicks her tail around a little bit, and gets her adrenalin back down from her anger outburst, she will then come up and start rubbing on me again, as if to apologize, so that is when I'll again reach down, and give her 1 or 2 gentle rubs (as if to say it's alright, but don't do it that hard again), and then I'll go on about my business.  

Cats are very smart, lol sometimes stubborn, but very smart, and they get the corrections quickly.  Most cats learn not to bite or slap so hard from their parents, and siblings, but a feral cat has missed this portion of their socialization lesson because they've been out there all alone with no rules at all, so it's up to us to teach them what is, and what isn't appropriate behavior.  Just like a child, or a dog, etc. it is important to correct the exact same way, every single time the inappropriate behavior occurs, so they can learn the type of behavior you are expecting from them.   I hope this helps.  Have a wonderful day.     

 

[pixies ma]

 
When I introduced 2 twin brother kittens to our present cats, Squee, my Maine Coon mix, hissed and growled at them.  Before the week was out, he was their uncle Squee and still is, two years later. 

Let's hope this would work with adult cats, one inside feisty one year old princess and one 4 year old feral who has been fighting to survive all this time.

 

[pixies ma]

He hasn't done it since then. In fact, he cleaned himself on my lap earlier. I'm always nervous though when he's this close to my face and all my veins in general
What you say makes total sense and relates to him. Even back when he snapped me, i always let him pet himself on me with the occasional scratching of his head and neck. I often get the feeling he would like more scratching instead of him doing all the work, but i don't trust him enough. I feel kinda bad cause he seems to trust me lots, but i'm not forgetting who he is and what his life has been like the past 4 years.
Funny thing, in my way back from work today i saw him in the neighbor's yard from the street, so i went to see him (the neighbors don't mind) and it was like he didn't recognize me and i couldn't get near him. It's like he doesnt trust me in that setting. Weird.
And oddly enough, he seems to understand my boundaries and what me in general more than my inside cat (who i took at 5 weeks old from his ex-colony last year) That little bugger still bites hard at my ankles and feet to murder them.
His intelligence has struck me many times though i sometimes don't understand when things change and i don't know what happened. Like, he's not as eager to come up on my porch on the second floor anymore. He used to spend all night on my chair, but now he sleeps on my landlord's porch one flight down. Not sure what happened there. He came up earlier, had a lap session and food, and settled on my chair just like old times. But he went down not lon after that. Not sure if out of respect from my own cat now that he's been inside the kitchen and had the opportunity to smell her from outside the bathroom door where she was locked in.
Or another cat comes at night and eats his food, idk.
My cat is petrified of her though. She saw him down in the yard while she was up with me on the porch. He meowed, she hissed, tried to go inside, came back and did 2 soft kitten meows, like she was calling her mother or something. She's all puffy and he stays calm, which i understand is to be most feared. When cats seem calm an stare, i mean.

 

[pixies ma]

Here is Minou earlier after a nice meal laced with lysine and a bit of coconut oil.

porch.jpg

• pixies ma
• Oct 1, 2016

 

[crackerjack4u]

 
The title is what reeled me in!

​He is beautiful, and looks very comfy.  I forgot to mention another thing I did with mine was to use a backscratcher to rub her with, and that worked out well. This may be an option for you too so you can rub him some too.  LOL backscratchers don't have Veins. This may help you get more trusting of him, and learn when he bites and doesn't bite better. Mine would often bite without warning, that's why I started the 1-2 quick pets and then stop routine.  I did know that when she laid down on her side the hard biting was sure to start if I rubbed her.  I do think at that time she was just playing, but she just hadn't figured out how hard was too hard.  My feral is my resident cat, and I have been working on incorporating another cat in the house with her as a playmate.  Last night for the 1st time ever that they both remained out of their cages all night long with no episodes.  . 

I've been through a lot of what you're going through now.  The link to my issues and how things got resolved if you're interested in reading it is at the top of this post. They can be worked with to where they both are comfortable being around the other, and they may even realize having a cat buddy to play with isn't such a bad thing after all, but it takes time, and it takes patience to get them to that point.   

 

[janeofthejungle]

Hi everyone, just a quick update.just wanted to say this toy has been a life saver with my feral Jane.

image.jpeg

• janeofthejungle
• Oct 6, 2016

. Every time she hisses and steps to me I distract her with this wand. It's actually quite comical at times times. She reminds me of that dog in the movie up where he is talking and then suddenly stops and says squirrel!. She is like tail up, back arched and hissing towards me but then see the wand and gets distracted. Somewhat plays with it! She also ate in front of me today for the 2nd time. She has a long way to go but I'm happy with progress so far.

 

[crackerjack4u]

That's wonderful news Jane.  It sounds like progress is being made for sure.  Keep up the great work, and she'll get comfortable with you before you know it. 

 

[RLG]

I enjoy the challenge of trying to gain the trust of the ferals that come to my house, and I've noticed a pattern that I wonder if others have noticed too.

I've only worked with ferals for the past year, so maybe this is common knowledge that I've rediscovered on my own--but hissing, while clearly an unmistakable warning that requires being taken seriously, can sometimes also be a sign of progress.

We talk about "stepping outside our comfort zone", as if there's a circle around us. With feral/scared cats, it's sort of the opposite. Oh sure, there's a circle around us alright, but it's "The Circle of Certain Death" in their minds.

Once I get them beyond running off at the sight of me, they stay comfortably and silently way outside of this invisible circle while they wait for me to feed them.

I know it's said that it's not typical for a feral to meow at you, and I agree that they never do in the beginning. But it appears that the stronger the association becomes between you and "Turkey & Giblets" or "Savory Salmon" wet food in their minds, the rule bends.

In my observation, the stronger the association and the more their anticipation grows, the closer to the perimeter of the death circle they will wait. This progression can take weeks or months. Once they get to where they are waiting at the very boundary of the death circle, they will begin to meow at me, not boldly per se, like an indoor cat would, but almost tentatively, somewhat in anticipation for sure, but perhaps also due to feeling a little conflicted between wanting to come closer to me (aka "the food source"…I don't kid myself that they view me any other other way) but not daring to cross that invisible line.

Every cat has a different personality, and the more nervous ones are content to stay meowing at the perimeter, sometimes allowing it shrink, but very slowly over time.

However, if a cat has a bold enough personality and builds up enough courage to one day step nervously INSIDE The Circle of Certain Death, they start hissing at me. I can't see the perimeter of the circle, and it varies for each cat, but it's clear to me when they cross it because often they start hissing.

That's when I know I'm really starting to make some progress with them. It's like they're saying, "You know, even though it makes me really nervous, I'm willing to come inside the circle, but you better not mess with me!"

And of course, I don't mess with them. I just do the same thing I normally do to reassure them with non-threatening body language, soft tones and slow eye blinks while I go about my business as normal. After a week or so, once they realize that The Circle Of Certain Death has not consumed them and is actually a pretty good place to be, the hissing subsides and much more rapid progress seems to happen after that.

It's even happened inside the house with a feral I was rehabbing--to his own credit, he pushed his own boundaries of what he'd been comfortable with after hiding in the carrier for a week whenever I was in the room. Although he had dry food available, he wanted the wet food that he had grown accustomed to, and woke me up with meowing, sitting next to his wet food dish. I had to blink my eyes a few times as I woke to believe it, but when I lifted my head, he hissed at me, but stayed where he was. If I hadn't already seen this pattern and recognized it for what it was, it would have been creepy in a Cujo kinda way...

It seems that, outside or inside, hissing can in some cases be a sign that they've taken that next uncertain step of trust. Just curious if others have noticed this phenomenon.

I've brought a female in my home now that her litter has weened and I'm going to spay her ASAP. Feeding her outside was simple and she trusted me to about 6' and always showed up for food. Well, she's been in a large closet 10'x12', carpeted shelves, LB, treats, regular feeding 3-4 xs (smaller meals) so she knows food is reliable and she hisses almost every time I go into "her space." I just went in to set down some wet food and she hissed once and I stayed for 10 mins with no further hissing. She was staying in the disguised large crate as a den but now she's taken to the lower shelf in a box with a hole to watch my every move. It's a bit intimidating but I'm not pushing her to do a thing. When I go in later at night, it's obvious I've disturbed her in her other spot (on top of a 8" Tupperware box, kinda near the door) so I'm greeted with hissing as she slinks away and up to the lower shelf. She has a home and I'm sure spaying will be good but not looking forward to luring her into the disguised den (crate) and shutting the door. I'm starting to put a few treats in there and will work on getting her to go in crate for a meal but one of those meals will result in some hurt feelings, I'm sure.

 

[twosemiferalcat]

Hi @Ondine ! I'm so glad the post made you feel better! Absolutely, these cats didn't start off hissing at me...they only started hissing once they decided to trust me. So it sounds like your kitty trusts you enough to be willing to enter "the circle".

And every cat is different. My two "regular" ferals likely came from the same litter as they seem to be about the same age, often show up together, and seem very comfortable with each other. The orange one is very brave--he will now come very close, and actually even rubbed against my knee the other day for the first time as I was putting out wet food, but I can't touch him unless I "sneak" a touch and he immediately ducks and runs several feet away. The black and white one still maintains his distance, but is starting to come a little closer, as if he's taking the orange one's lead that I'm "okay".

They both crash out on my porch now during the day. The orange one went through that hissing phase, but the black/white one did not and maintains much more distance.

Nero, my avatar cat, is the one you might have read about before. He was a tom that I fixed and took in. It started with hissing outside, and then hissing inside, and now he's a love. BUT he also has his limits that my completely domesticated cats don't have. He wouldn't be good with children for sure, and even rehoming him (which I would never do) would likely not be an option as he would probably revert. He even gets weirded out with me at times (evidenced by his little pink tongue licking his upper lip) and I have to reassure him.

So every cat is different, and your baby might not get beyond the hissing, but the hissing is a good sign for sure! From what I can tell in these cases, it just means, "I'm feeling a little nervous, but I want to be near you."

It's almost like you've came into my house and wrote up an article about my cats. I recently adopted two semi-feral cats (I posted on this page a few months ago and am still updating). The hissing, as you've mentioned, is not just an aggressive, warning kind of thing, it communicates much more. I brought my (then 7 month old) kittens and at the shelter, my Stars hissed a lot. Still hissed when he came home with us and the entire time he was here. However, his hissing got really bad about 2 weeks ago only to find him not breathing about a week ago. His hissing got really bad because he was sick and we didn't even know it. He did have a low grade heart murmur, which could have been the reason for his death. Now the other one is still with us, but much healthier than his brother. I believe the reason why Stars hissed so much was probably because he had some underlying illnesses that the vets could not detect.

Going back to the hissing, my Moons is just as you have described. Moons followed Stars' lead and he was the more reserved, quiet one...eating second after Stars, doing things exactly as Stars did, getting mounted during play...he was always second. He would run from us, but Stars would stay put and hiss at us. We even got to pet Stars a little bit and got him to eat off our hands, but not Moons. He never came, no matter how hungry he was. Never. Not until Stars did it first. However, once Stars passed away, Moons started getting more courageous and started rubbing against a lot of our furniture, scratching a lot...basically marking his territory. He also started initiating play with us and meowed at me for the first time about 3 days ago. Though, what was so funny was, adding to your post, he crossed what you called the "Circle of Death" and came really close to me while we were playing. He then realized how close he had gotten and then sat up straight. Looked at me. Opened his mouth and no sound came out at first. He then seemed really confused as to which sound he wanted to make. So he kept opening his mouth with no sound coming out. Then, he meowed at me and I was so happy because I knew meows are a good thing and they're something cats do to people/animals they trust. However, as soon as he meowed, he hissed at me, and then meowed again, and then hissed again. He seemed perplexed and uncomfortable. So I moved and he went along with his business. It was so strange. I hope I understood his perplexity correctly, telling me he wanted me to get out of his way.

Finally, I want to top off my post by saying I completely agree that hissing is a good sign because Moons never hissed at me, ever--never, up until now. Thank you for your post. It made me feel like I wasn't the only one with the quirky cat.

 

[RLG]

I'm sorry about Stars-so tough to not know what's going on. I can't wait to take Goldie to the vet. Her hissing is kind of how she initially greets my presence but it stops. This morning I've been with her 3 times at about 5-7 mins. 3rd time no hiss at entrance (I go in on my hands n knees) and she watched me toss my bathrobe tie around. This is her 7th day here and her new "spot" is close to the door, laying with her front paws tucked under, on top of Tupperware drawer with ears up and not hiding. Again, sorry about Stars-sad but he was loved n inside n safer.

 

[RLG]

I'm worried my girl may be a bit sick. She was wormed, orally but she threw up a few unmoving worms yesterday n I'm concerned about the color of a liquid she made on the towel... Rusty color so maybe uti. I gotta find a way to get her to a decent vet, I know

 

[RLG]

Her hiss is followed by a meow that has a "concerned or scared" tone.