Hepatic Lipidosis? Home remedy of force feeding?

[carolina]

Just so there's some measurements for you all to go by, the vet said her liver enzymes AST are 414 and high normal is 100, her ALT is 727 and high normal is 100.  There was another liver enzyme (sounded like vet said "alcfoss", but I can't find that online) that was 588 when high normal is 102.  Her gallbladder bilirubin level is 2.6 and high normal is .4.  Again, this is all according to her vet.

That was probably Alkaline Phosphatase - or ALKP.... that one is definitely a concern being high..... Bottom line is, you want to bring all those numbers down
Keep going consistently, and you will get there..... Good news is, all it takes is food


Oh, I should say too.... Discuss with your vet getting something for nausea - it might come handy to have it home just in case :nod:

Smaller meals are better too - so at the most 1 1/2 oz - aim for that.....

 

[denice]

The only measurement I remember was the ALT and it was in the 700s when the feeding tube went in.  It continued to rise even after he started eating on his own.  I was still tube feeding him and he acted like he was feeling a lot better but that number went up into the 1200s.  When it finally started dropping it dropped fast.  That seemed to be the number that the vet was the most interested in.

 

[carolina]

Hey Carolina. What is a "cat bag"?? Maybe it is obvious in your video but I can't play it.

 

Now I know why it was not playing - the link had been removed.... I think now we can just embed it.....
I am doing it so now here, for the OP, just in case - sorry if this is repetitive

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

 

[feralvr]

I am SO glad you are getting support and help from everyone here on TCS!!! . More vibes for you and your sweet baby tonight

 

[chrinsky]

Thank you all again for all of your support!  I have another question for those of you who have experience or know people who've had experience with force feeding for hepatic lipidosis; how long have you had to force feed your kitty for before they start eating again on their own?

 

[ldg]

I don't have experience force-feeding because of HL, but I've seen others on here contending with it - it varies from several days to .... ???? Though supporting syringe feeding was generally required for several weeks, even when kitty began eating a little on their own after several days. I'm sure those with experience will reply.

Just wanted to add more vibes...

 

[denice]

Patches started eating again within about a week and a half but I continued the tube feedings for at least two weeks after he started eating again.  The vet told me that overfeeding was fine because he needed to be getting enough calories so that his body wouldn't try to draw from his fat stores.  When he came off the tube feedings I weaned him off of them over about a week.

 

[chrinsky]

Patches started eating again within about a week and a half but I continued the tube feedings for at least two weeks after he started eating again.  The vet told me that overfeeding was fine because he needed to be getting enough calories so that his body wouldn't try to draw from his fat stores.  When he came off the tube feedings I weaned him off of them over about a week.

I'm glad your kitty healed quickly!  I hope mine does as well...I'm starting to get very discouraged and incredibly worried.  I brought her back to the vet today and she got a subcutaneous injection of fluids...bringing her again tomorrow morning too...she was slightly jaundice =(.  I'm bringing IV stuff home so I can do it myself over the weekend as well (the tech is teaching me tomorrow).  This is all just so sad!  I can't stand seeing poor, helpless animals sick and helpless-it's especially heartbreaking when it's your own!

 

[carolina]

Honey, please don't get discouraged.... This is a long road, but can be done.... There have been kitties right here at TCS who were very, very jaundiced, not slightly.... but they made it That is the very nature of HL - that happens when the bilirubin is high....
It is a difficult road, and it does take perseverance.... You are in the very beginning of it.... Keep going - we will be right here with you....
Just make sure she keeps eating..... That's the only way you will break the cycle of Hepatic Lipidosis - with food. It takes consistent feedings for that... There is plenty of fluids in her food - she needs nutrition, all the nutrition she can get.... The fluids will help to keep her hydrated, and will perk her up to a certain point, but nothing will help her like food....

Edit: Why was she on the vet, and is there medicine being added in those fluids?

Also, can you update us on her feedings? How is that going? How did she eat today?

 

[chrinsky]

Honey, please don't get discouraged.... This is a long road, but can be done.... There have been kitties right here at TCS who were very, very jaundiced, not slightly.... but they made it

That is the very nature of HL - that happens when the bilirubin is high....
It is a difficult road, and it does take perseverance.... You are in the very beginning of it.... Keep going - we will be right here with you....

Just make sure she keeps eating..... That's the only way you will break the cycle of Hepatic Lipidosis - with food. It takes consistent feedings for that... There is plenty of fluids in her food - she needs nutrition, all the nutrition she can get.... The fluids will help to keep her hydrated, and will perk her up to a certain point, but nothing will help her like food....

Edit: Why was she on the vet, and is there medicine being added in those fluids?
Also, can you update us on her feedings? How is that going? How did she eat today?

Thank you for all your support!  We are feeding her every 2-4 hours; I'm making sure she gets fed 6 times throughout the day.  We are giving her 1 oz at each feeding.  She's 10 lbs, so I think 6 oz is is good for now, but as she gets used to the feedings and tolerates it better (she's vomited after a feeding twice so far) I think I'll start feeding her more.  We're feeding her A/D critical care wet food with a supplement mixed in that comes in a squeeze bottle that's high in fat and nutrients.  I brought her to the vet because she's not drinking any water, and when I brought her the first time the vet said she was dehydrated.  I know being dehydrated can make anyone feel crappy, so I'm sure the extra hydration can't hurt.  There was no medicine added to the fluids.  The first time I took her to the vet she was given a shot of antibiotics to "cover all bases" as the vet said.  Her feeding schedule today was this:

7:00AM - 1 ounce

9:40AM - 1 ounce

12:30PM - 1 ounce

2:30PM - 1 ounce

6:00PM - 1 ounce

And I plan on giving her another feeding at 9:00PM.  I'm thinking maybe I should set an alarm in the middle of the night and feed her once then too?  The first time I tried feeding her today at 6:20AM she threw it up...so I waited a bit and then at 7:00AM she handled the food just fine.  After the 6:00PM feeding I had given her about .5 ounces and she got sick...so I waited a few minutes and tried again and she kept it down.  I have a log going and am keeping track of how much and how often she eats!  Also, her daily meal plan will be similar to that of todays, but times may alter slightly due to my husband and I's work schedule.  But like I said before, I'm fortunate enough that he works incredibly close to home and is able to stop in at least twice during the work day to feed her.

Suggestions/input/thoughts are greatly appreciated!

 

[carolina]

Oh honey, you are on a GREAT path!
Ok, here are some suggestions:
I would not worry so much about the fluids - there is plenty on the food - IMHO, keeping her at home, under the least amount of stress as possible, is much better.... She was not eating well before.... But on wet food, almost 80% is water.... Once you start feeding her consistently, she will get all the fluids she needs (FYI, cats who need all wet, sometimes barely drink water - my kitty Hope for example didn't..... she got all she needed IN the food )
Per my vet, when my kitty was dehydrated, his suggestion was to dilute the A/D with a bit of Pedialyte. Just a bit. You can do this in the first few days.... I would seriously not worry about stressing her out any further with the fluids..... Just adding a bit of pedialyte in the food should suffice.
She might be throwing up because A/D is too rich. They do recommend to dilute on day 1 and 2 - please refer to the feeding guide I posted before. In there, you will also find the correct amount to feed for her weight - feed that. Since they instruct you to dilute the food on these beginning days, it might be a good idea to add the pedialyte to it.
Ask your vet for a nausea medicine to have home. That will come very very handy for you.....

Again, do not be discouraged.... you are doing wonderful! Just keep going hun, you made it through today - you did a wonderful job! Keep going and she will get there!

 

[gailc]

Most TCS members now of my Nub-e and his unlucky short life.  He to stopped eating but in the end it didn't matter.  I got the info from Carolina and syringe fed for several days.  Since mine was a kitten I was weighing him to see if the force feeding was helping.  In my case he tolerated the force feeding and I wrapped him in a towel which worked and he let me know when he had enough..

I wish you the best in feeding.  I would after a couple days see if your cat will try to eat the a/d on his own.  Or get some smelly cheap wet food and see if that would be eaten.  Still with the a/s as that has the most calories.

 

[chrinsky]

Thanks again, Carolina!  You've been incredibly helpful.  And I'm so excited because as I sat here browsing through this site, she randomly ate a treat I've had out for her for HOURS!  She decided to eat it randomly!  I hope this means she's getting better!  She also ate a second one I put down!  I'm so happy!!!
 

Oh honey, you are on a GREAT path!

Ok, here are some suggestions:
I would not worry so much about the fluids - there is plenty on the food - IMHO, keeping her at home, under the least amount of stress as possible, is much better.... She was not eating well before.... But on wet food, almost 80% is water.... Once you start feeding her consistently, she will get all the fluids she needs (FYI, cats who need all wet, sometimes barely drink water - my kitty Hope for example didn't..... she got all she needed IN the food

)
Per my vet, when my kitty was dehydrated, his suggestion was to dilute the A/D with a bit of Pedialyte. Just a bit. You can do this in the first few days.... I would seriously not worry about stressing her out any further with the fluids..... Just adding a bit of pedialyte in the food should suffice.
She might be throwing up because A/D is too rich. They do recommend to dilute on day 1 and 2 - please refer to the feeding guide I posted before. In there, you will also find the correct amount to feed for her weight - feed that. Since they instruct you to dilute the food on these beginning days, it might be a good idea to add the pedialyte to it.
Ask your vet for a nausea medicine to have home. That will come very very handy for you.....
Again, do not be discouraged.... you are doing wonderful! Just keep going hun, you made it through today - you did a wonderful job!

Keep going and she will get there!

 

[carolina]

Thanks again, Carolina!  You've been incredibly helpful.  And I'm so excited because as I sat here browsing through this site, she randomly ate a treat I've had out for her for HOURS!  She decided to eat it randomly!  I hope this means she's getting better!  She also ate a second one I put down!  I'm so happy!!!

That is the thing about HL...... Once you get their liver going..... little by little..... their appetite starts coming back again!
There is nothing wrong in Junk food, by the way, treats, etc. All that "quality talk" goes out the window! :lol3::lol3::lol3:
GailC gave a good suggestion - once you start feeding her consistently, go to the store, and get a bunch of sample size bags of dry food - all qualities..... and see if she eats.... she just might!
Meanwhile....... know that temptation treat are balanced nutritionally :lol3:

 

[carolina]

Oh, and about waking up in the middle of the night for a feeding.... IMHO not necessary..... I would just do an extra feeding late at night right before you go to bed....
You need to rest, otherwise you and hubby will be burned out.... This is a long road and you both need your rests too
She got a good feeding today, and by the time you both go to bed, she will have had plenty :nod:

Just keep going, but take good care of yourselves too

 

[ldg]

Thanks again, Carolina!  You've been incredibly helpful.  And I'm so excited because as I sat here browsing through this site, she randomly ate a treat I've had out for her for HOURS!  She decided to eat it randomly!  I hope this means she's getting better!  She also ate a second one I put down!  I'm so happy!!!

Oh that is GREAT news! Yes - BABY STEPS! But after just one day... wow, that has me all smiles! Carolina knows SO much about this, you couldn't be getting better advice. :nod: You and DH are doing an AMAZING job. :bigthumb:

I do know exactly what you mean - it's SO HARD to see our babies not feeling well. Our Lazlo has cancer, and when he was diagnosed and before treatment began, he was soooooooo sick. We were so conflicted, and it was emotionally taxing. :nod: But once you make up your mind on a course of treatment, and see those first signs that it's working - well - it's those baby steps (and the experiences and support of others!!!!) that help keep you going. :heart3:

Wow - I can't believe she ate a treat on her own already! :lol3:

I do have to agree about the vomiting. I know it's stressful... but her body is adjusting, and she's "readjusting" to digesting food. a/d is a very rich food. I'm sure you'll see this happen less and less, if at all. It is recommended to thin it the first two days (by decreasing amounts) with water. :nod: But as her body adjusts, I'm sure you'll see the signs she's feeling better and better! Vibes for ALL of you!

 

[denice]

Thanks again, Carolina!  You've been incredibly helpful.  And I'm so excited because as I sat here browsing through this site, she randomly ate a treat I've had out for her for HOURS!  She decided to eat it randomly!  I hope this means she's getting better!  She also ate a second one I put down!  I'm so happy!!!
 

I am glad she is starting to eat a little.  When Patches started eating again it was just a little bit at first, just a bite of kibble here and there.  It took a while before he began eating normally again.
 

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

When I as force feeding, if I fed too much, he would throw it up immediately.  It was simply a matter of too much in, something had to go out

.  So I learned quickly to not put so much in at a time, and to feed very slowly.  (BUT, in my situation, I was feeding thru a feeding tube, not via a syringe directly into his mouth)  And YES, we did feed every 4 hours, so I did set the alarm for the middle of the night.

Also, the yellow coloring will not go away immediately...as Carolina pointed out, it all takes time.  And when you start doing the Sub-Q fluids at home, don't worry if it seems overwhelming.  Many, many, many of us here at TCS have done it or are currently (me) doing it for our furbabies.  I know you said there are at least two of you there, so that will be helpful.  Not sure what all the Vet Tech will tell you to make it easier, but I warm the fluids first (just by putting the bag in hot water), then hang the bag from my dining room chandelier or anything higher than your cat, since the fluid won't flow unless it's going downward.  There are lots of youtube videos you can watch to refresh yourself before you do it,if you think you need it.  Remember, the first time is always the hardest.  And also remember, you're not hurting her (seriously, it doesn't hurt since you are poking her in the scruff), but your are definitely helping her!

 

[katkisses]

I am so sorry you and your kitty are going through this!

I've been through it (my cat's ALT was over 1200 at one point, bilirubin went to 12, can't remember the others. AMY was high too).  His journey was unusually long, and the vet is STILL shocked that Bear lived through it.  I force fed and did daily fluids for 5 months.  For the first 2 months I had to feed him every single 2 hours because he wasn't keeping much down.  It was alot of tears and work, but we made it.  He was as yellow as a school bus, here is a pic after his color got a little better:



Here is the thread, it's painfully long: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/215150/bear-is-at-the-vet-hes-very-sick-liver-looks-horrible

Since your cat is already showing some interest in food I think her journey through this won't be as long as Bear's was.

My biggest tips would be:

-To get her some Denosyl, it is a liver supplment.  I don't know if it was a coincidence but Bear steadily improved after taking it and he is still on it 1.5yrs later. I order it from Amazon through Entirely Pets. I HIGHLY encourage trying it. It is supposed to lower the ALT levels. Its only about $20-30 depending on where you order it.

-Ask your vet about Ursodiol. Everything I read about liver failure meds mentioned it.  My vet was hesitant to prescribe it, he didn't think it worked but gave in.  This med REALLY helped him.  If he missed a dose he would start vomiting again. This med makes the liver bile thinner, so it doesn't back up in the liver and cause issues. I really think this med had a HUGE part in saving Bear. It is expensive.  I had to get his from a compounding pharmacy and it was $20 for 2 weeks of meds.

-Don't worry about what she is eating, if you can get her to eat something, give it to her.  Fatty foods are horrible for liver patients, but at one point Bear really wanted my hamburger even though he wasn't eating.  I used a george foreman grill to get all of the grease out and cooked him one. He ate it a couple times before getting bored with it.

-Take one day at a time, this is a pretty intense thing to go through.  Just know that you are doing your best and that your cat is comfortable and doing ok right now.

-You could also try Milk Thistle (from a drug store) it is natural and works best if you divide to dosage up and give it 3 times/day.  Ask your vet for a dosage, Bear's vet told me to give him 225mg/per day.  It can cause nausea, so I only gave Bear 75mg/day but he wasn't really able to handle it well. It helps prevent the liver from getting more damaged. It is cheap $11 for a big bottle.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but meat flavored baby food is a good food to try.  Just check the ingredients for onion and garlic, avoid those!

I would keep up the fluids.  It helps flush out the toxins and get them out of the system.  Just keep an eye out to see if it's taking them longer to absorb.  If they start taking a longer time to absorb then cut the fluids back by about 25%.

It is alot to take in, I know.  But we are here for you!

 

[carolina]

I am so sorry you and your kitty are going through this!

I've been through it (my cat's ALT was over 1200 at one point, bilirubin went to 12, can't remember the others. AMY was high too).  His journey was unusually long, and the vet is STILL shocked that Bear lived through it.  I force fed and did daily fluids for 5 months.  For the first 2 months I had to feed him every single 2 hours because he wasn't keeping much down.  It was alot of tears and work, but we made it.  He was as yellow as a school bus, here is a pic after his color got a little better:


Here is the thread, it's painfully long: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/215150/bear-is-at-the-vet-hes-very-sick-liver-looks-horrible

Since your cat is already showing some interest in food I think her journey through this won't be as long as Bear's was.

My biggest tips would be:
-To get her some Denosyl, it is a liver supplment.  I don't know if it was a coincidence but Bear steadily improved after taking it and he is still on it 1.5yrs later. I order it from Amazon through Entirely Pets. I HIGHLY encourage trying it. It is supposed to lower the ALT levels. Its only about $20-30 depending on where you order it.
-Ask your vet about Ursodiol. Everything I read about liver failure meds mentioned it.  My vet was hesitant to prescribe it, he didn't think it worked but gave in.  This med REALLY helped him.  If he missed a dose he would start vomiting again. This med makes the liver bile thinner, so it doesn't back up in the liver and cause issues. I really think this med had a HUGE part in saving Bear. It is expensive.  I had to get his from a compounding pharmacy and it was $20 for 2 weeks of meds.
-Don't worry about what she is eating, if you can get her to eat something, give it to her.  Fatty foods are horrible for liver patients, but at one point Bear really wanted my hamburger even though he wasn't eating.  I used a george foreman grill to get all of the grease out and cooked him one. He ate it a couple times before getting bored with it.
-Take one day at a time, this is a pretty intense thing to go through.  Just know that you are doing your best and that your cat is comfortable and doing ok right now.
-You could also try Milk Thistle (from a drug store) it is natural and works best if you divide to dosage up and give it 3 times/day.  Ask your vet for a dosage, Bear's vet told me to give him 225mg/per day.  It can cause nausea, so I only gave Bear 75mg/day but he wasn't really able to handle it well. It helps prevent the liver from getting more damaged. It is cheap $11 for a big bottle.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but meat flavored baby food is a good food to try.  Just check the ingredients for onion and garlic, avoid those!

I would keep up the fluids.  It helps flush out the toxins and get them out of the system.  Just keep an eye out to see if it's taking them longer to absorb.  If they start taking a longer time to absorb then cut the fluids back by about 25%.

It is alot to take in, I know.  But we are here for you!

Ohhhhh!!! I am SO glad you posted and SO glad to hear Bear is doing goood!


To the OP - how is your baby doing, and how were the feedings today?
Keep going hun, one day at a time!

Merry Christmas!