Help with new rescue/shelter adoptee

[emphatic]

I really need guidance

I’m realizing after reading some threads here that I’m not crazy or alone.. ah ok

I adopted Matthew from a shelter three weeks ago

he was 6 mos old, in a large cage with 2 siblings, he was the independent one, the other siblings were huddled together

before this I adopted a 9 week old kitten through a pet store and it was instant, complete bliss dream playful kitten, let me pick him up and trim his claws, was extremely cool with everything.. he passed away July 30 after 15 years of a wonderful love filled life, went peacefully and even cuddly-looking in his sleep, I felt blessed (that it was easy)

I had no idea how different this would be and it’s hard not to take it personally when a cat hisses, I’m so sweet to cats..but wow

so ok.. the rescue people are deeply cool, they did tell me but thought it was crucial for me to have lap time every day to make sure that he bonds with me and lets me pick him up and put him on my lap, etc

but my back went out and hurt a lot the first week he was here, so I just couldn’t sit.. really felt bad

I have a huge sisal covered cat post, he wasn’t hiding as much as I expected, seemed pretty cool with me coming over to him, I’d nose-bump him, or he’d nuzzle my hand if I slipped it under his chin,

but then I felt a pang like I had to get on this thing I was told to do — and he was fiercely resistant to me picking him up, was hissing and even swatted at me.. but I insisted, thinking he needed to get used to this in case I have to bring him to a vet trim his claws, so I picked him up, put him on my lap, held the nape of his neck so hw wouldn’t flip away, and he sat there totally chilling out for 30+ minutes while I pet him and let him lick treats off my hand

that was 5 days ago.. Ever since he’s gotten off my lap now he won’t even let me come within a foot of them without hissing at me, his ears go allll the way back, if I insist at coming closer all he swats... it’s heartbreaking, I wanted a kitten to love and it feels like all I’m getting is hostility

he roams around the apartment, loves to chase the hanging feather toy up his tree (post), that’s his safe zone, will come down to eat and is letting me get closer but freaks if I toss a toy toward him, only goes for the tree and hanging toy

I desperately need guidance, this is my question:

I know I may have “missed the time window“, but now we’re here — do I turn my back on him when he gets that mean (I’ve read that ignoring a cat is the best way to teach them they’re doing something wrong, but I know I’m taking it too personally and he’s not doing anything wrong, he’s just scared..)?

or do I insist on training him because he’s going to need to let me pick him up, so he should get used to it now..? how firm should I be about picking him up once a day (or at all, or?) if no matter when I try it’ll be met with the same resistance? I just ordered ‘grooming gloves’ for this

or do I back off when he hisses, not “train him to let me pick him up” but try to win that trust indirectly, I was picking up some of his food from his bowl and letting him eat it all out of my hand...

^ I tried a lot of things like that and they seem to work really well *at the time* but then an hour later I’ll walk towards him and say hello and he’ll hiss at me, like it doesn’t have a lasting effect

he’s a Siamese, odd for a rescue kitten maybe.. he’s definitely more shelter cat than Siamese.. his date of birth is the date I adopted my last cat Toon 15 years ago, it seemed meant to be

but I feel like I had no idea what I was getting myself into

and I didn’t take this guy seriously enough about mandatory lap time the first week...

I don’t want to be selfish, but to be honest if this cat isn’t going to be my loving little buddy because I messed up somehow (or for whatever reason), I should know it now and plan on returning him and getting myself the kind of kitten I know how to be a great parent (before Toon 15 years ago I two other kittens since 4-5 weeks old, borrowed their mom to nurse them, we were deeply close trusting..)

I really want this to work, he’s a magnificent little guy and playful but he really doesn’t seem to like me

I need to know if I should expect this to change, and if so, what my best course of action is now —

1, make up for lost lap time by doing ‘what I should’ve done the first week’ even though it’ll take longer to get back there or
2, not insist if he’s hissing like that, be super patient and win him over with space and caution gradually building up to ..(?) being able to pick him up?

it kills me to make him upset or afraid, but he has to let me pick him up sometime soon to trim his claws, if any time I do that I set the clock back a month, you know, ..this honestly won’t work

sorry for the long post! HUGE thanks in advance for any advice or shared experiences

 

[CatladyJan]

Hey I’m new here PLEASE FORGIVE MY POSTS BEFORE THIS I can not find a way to delete or edit

I really need guidance

I’m realizing after reading some threads here that I’m not crazy or alone.. ah ok

I adopted Matthew from a shelter three weeks ago

he was 6 mos old, in a large cage with 2 siblings, he was the independent one, the other siblings were huddled together

before this I adopted a 9 week old kitten through a pet store and it was instant, complete bliss dream playful kitten, let me pick him up and trim his claws, was extremely cool with everything.. he passed away July 30 after 15 years of a wonderful love filled life, went peacefully and even cuddly-looking in his sleep, I felt blessed (that it was easy)

I had no idea how different this would be and it’s hard not to take it personally when a cat hisses, I’m so sweet to cats..but wow

so ok.. the rescue people are deeply cool, they did tell me but thought it was crucial for me to have lap time every day to make sure that he bonds with me and lets me pick him up and put him on my lap, etc

but my back went out and hurt a lot the first week he was here, so I just couldn’t sit.. really felt bad

I have a huge sisal covered cat post, he wasn’t hiding as much as I expected, seemed pretty cool with me coming over to him, I’d nose-bump him, or he’d nuzzle my hand if I slipped it under his chin,

but then I felt a pang like I had to get on this thing I was told to do — and he was fiercely resistant to me picking him up, was hissing and even swatted at me.. but I insisted, thinking he needed to get used to this in case I have to bring him to a vet trim his claws, so I picked him up, put him on my lap, held the nape of his neck so hw wouldn’t flip away, and he sat there totally chilling out for 30+ minutes while I pet him and let him lick treats off my hand

that was 5 days ago.. Ever since he’s gotten off my lap now he won’t even let me come within a foot of them without hissing at me, his ears go allll the way back, if I insist at coming closer all he swats... it’s heartbreaking, I wanted a kitten to love and it feels like all I’m getting is hostility

he roams around the apartment, loves to chase the hanging feather toy up his tree (post), that’s his safe zone, will come down to eat and is letting me get closer but freaks if I toss a toy toward him, only goes for the tree and hanging toy

I desperately need guidance, this is my question:

I know I may have “missed the time window“, but now we’re here — do I turn my back on him when he gets that mean (I’ve read that ignoring a cat is the best way to teach them they’re doing something wrong, but I know I’m taking it too personally and he’s not doing anything wrong, he’s just scared..)?

or do I insist on training him because he’s going to need to let me pick him up, so he should get used to it now..? how firm should I be about picking him up once a day (or at all, or?) if no matter when I try it’ll be met with the same resistance? I just ordered ‘grooming gloves’ for this

or do I back off when he hisses, not “train him to let me pick him up” but try to win that trust indirectly, I was picking up some of his food from his bowl and letting him eat it all out of my hand...

^ I tried a lot of things like that and they seem to work really well *at the time* but then an hour later I’ll walk towards him and say hello and he’ll hiss at me, like it doesn’t have a lasting effect

he’s a Siamese, odd for a rescue kitten maybe.. he’s definitely more shelter cat than Siamese.. his date of birth is the date I adopted my last cat Toon 15 years ago, it seemed meant to be

but I feel like I had no idea what I was getting myself into

and I didn’t take this guy seriously enough about mandatory lap time the first week...

I don’t want to be selfish, but to be honest if this cat isn’t going to be my loving little buddy because I messed up somehow (or for whatever reason), I should know it now and plan on returning him and getting myself the kind of kitten I know how to be a great parent (before Toon 15 years ago I two other kittens since 4-5 weeks old, borrowed their mom to nurse them, we were deeply close trusting..)

I really want this to work, he’s a magnificent little guy and playful but he really doesn’t seem to like me

I need to know if I should expect this to change, and if so, what my best course of action is now —

1, make up for lost lap time by doing ‘what I should’ve done the first week’ even though it’ll take longer to get back there or
2, not insist if he’s hissing like that, be super patient and win him over with space and caution gradually building up to ..(?) being able to pick him up?

it kills me to make him upset or afraid, but he has to let me pick him up sometime soon to trim his claws, if any time I do that I set the clock back a month, you know, ..this honestly won’t work

sorry for the long post! HUGE thanks in advance for any advice or shared experiences

Hi Emphatic and welcome to TCS and adopting a semi feral kitten.

I as I'm sure many here who have or are in the process of socializing kittens completely understand how you are feeling. I'm still working on 3 to socialize and it's usually one step forward 10 steps back .

It is frustrating and can even hurt being constantly rejected by a kitten whom you hoped to have and a warm snuggly little friend.

The lap sitting and all is important, but you don't want to smother the kitten it's important that it comes to you on it's own terms. I have found that when you approach the kitten to act as if you don't see it and walk right past it. Play hot and cold.
It takes a lot of time and extreme amount of patience to socialize.

Playing with interactive toys really helps earn trust as does feeding them from a long handled spoon.

It can also take a kitten/cat time to warm up to a new environment.

I can tell you once you win this kittens trust it will be completely devoted to you forever.

Beautiful cat btw!

 

[Jcatbird]

You are not crazy or alone. Patience is key. He is in a new world.... again. He went from wherever, to shelter, to you. It’s a lot to take in! Don’t force him. Love is bout on trust and that counts with cats. Try just sitting with him near you. Talk to him. Entice him to come to you by using a wand toy to lead him near you and , maybe, even onto something beside you like a sofa. Sitting on his level helps. Can you get down on the floor with him? Laying on your back and just keeping him company can build trust. That position is one a cat views as most vulnerable and he will see that you trust him. Putting food near you during this is a great bonding tool. He may surprise you and come to investigate or even give a head bump after a good meal. At the least maybe he will decide to take a bath and pretend to ignore you. Lol He won’t really be ignoring you. He will be checking you out. Turning your back and walking away will show him indifference and that is cat language for, okay, I’m leaving! Done! Lol He does have some Siamese so a little extra attitude may be available. I happen to love them for that but it can make them a little more excitable. Also more playful, cute and really smart! Anytime you take in a kitty you are going to encounter a new personality. Every cat is different but getting to know him is going to be amazing once he has learned that he is completely safe and loved. Settle in with him and he will begin to settle too. If he does allow being held, when he wants to get down, let him. Being restrained by a large being is intimidating and can make them feel threatened as they would by a predator. I know the shelter said to get in lap time but he just had a little setback. Did they hold him? My guess is that if they did, whoever did had already worked with him to gain his trust or he was frightened being in a shelter and submissive. Cats can do that. Use food and treats to get him close, don’t force things and let him set the pace. If you feel he is really nervous, announce when you approach and maybe try something like a Feliway diffuser. Getting him calmer will help move things along. There is music geared especially for cats online and you can try that too. He needs time to know where he is, the sounds, smells and sights around him as well as his new human. I think that if you step back a little, he will begin to step forward. He is a beautiful kitty! Please do keep us updated and ask any questions that come up. I hope you do not return him. He really hasn’t been with you very long yet and having been in a shelter was nerve wracking for him.
Oh! About editing! You have to have posted a certain amount before you can edit. Don’t worry about that. When you have posted more, an icon at the bottom of the page will appear and you can edit. For now, you should know, I make boo boos all the time when typing. Lol Everyone here knows and understands Welcome to the site! Thank you for posting such great photos. We love seeing kitty photos! I hope you will explore the site and get to know us. There are a lot of people here that will want to help you and kitty through the introduction period. Thank you for rescuing a kitty from the shelter!

 

[cat nap]

I adopted Matthew from a shelter three weeks ago

he was 6 mos old, in a large cage with 2 siblings, he was the independent one, the other siblings were huddled together

so ok.. the rescue people are deeply cool, they did tell me but thought it was crucial for me to have lap time every day to make sure that he bonds with me and lets me pick him up and put him on my lap, etc

pet him and let him lick treats off my hand

that was 5 days ago.. Ever since he’s gotten off my lap now he won’t even let me come within a foot of them without hissing at me, his ears go allll the way back, if I insist at coming closer all he swats... it’s heartbreaking, I wanted a kitten to love and it feels like all I’m getting is hostility

he roams around the apartment, loves to chase the hanging feather toy up his tree (post), that’s his safe zone, will come down to eat and is letting me get closer but freaks if I toss a toy toward him, only goes for the tree and hanging toy

I need to know if I should expect this to change, and if so, what my best course of action is now —

1, make up for lost lap time by doing ‘what I should’ve done the first week’ even though it’ll take longer to get back there or
2, not insist if he’s hissing like that, be super patient and win him over with space and caution gradually building up to ..(?) being able to pick him up?

Hello E emphatic ...some great advice from CatladyJan and Jcatbird ...already.
I'll just add a few comments, too.

The thing with cats is that they are all very unique and different, and do show their personalities, yet since Matthew has been with you for three weeks...he's still adjusting to his New environment and new person. If all he's known is the shelter and his siblings, ...then more than likely he is still scared and... needs a lot of time to feel safe.

Some cats do hiss more than others, and are not trying to be mean or telling you that they don't like you....but rather they are just saying ...."hey, I'm not ultra comfortable yet"....or "hey, I'm not sure what you are doing, but ...can we do it my way".
(It's difficult, since my aunt's cat hates to be picked up, and does hiss a lot...so we just let him be, and do his thing. He loves to play, eat, and spend time near people....but only when he wants to. He is about 5years though...so not exactly the same.)

Some cats do get very Over-Stimulated when petting them....and don't like to be lap cats...so the best thing to do would be to entice Matthew to come to you....with the string toy....or treats.

Continue building up Matthew's Confidence.
When you are socializing with a cat...you allow him or her to build up their Confidence, because this leads to your cat feeling good and positive. End each Play session or Learning session on a positive note with a favourite treat.

Patience with cats really is important, ...and they all seem to move/learn/explore at their own pace.
When he does hiss at you...try not to take anything personally....but look at it from his perspective. He's just scared and nervous
.
Also, I know it's difficult to do....but when he does hiss...we have to remain "neutral and positive" ourselves....so that our emotions don't scare our cats. They really do pick up on our emotions...so if we get scared or jump....they react to it too.

 

[emphatic]

Wow. I’m humbled at the lengthy responses, thanks so much (I assume everyone who replied will read this)

yeah a month before this I actually adopted a different 1-2 year old cat and it didn’t work out because he spent 3 weeks hiding under my soundbooth 24 hours a day and it was really cramped.. after watching a YouTube video online I realized that in the event of an emergency I would not have been able to get my cat out of there and that may be why I was feeling so uncomfortable..

but he never hissed, seemed deeply sweet, had was extremely cool with *me* but completely freaked out about the apartment

bringing it up because this is the opposite.. replying to what was suggested here, he’s pretty comfortable eating food right out of my hand, sometimes lets me pet under his chin and nuzzles my hand.. not always lol.. but only when he’s on his tree, he seems scared on the ground, but has been exploring that more.. but I can’t approach or he’ll run up his tree. so he’s not so scared of the environment, it’s me haha.. unless wait.. does having had another cat before this matter? the scent? I assumed this mattered only if he hadn’t been neutered but I don’t actually know.. Toon had this tree for 15 years..

well thanks, and I mean huge thanks, I got the chills after reading this like yea I’m taking it much too personally, it’s fear, not hostility.. it’s just inconsistent so it makes me wonder what I’m doing

so I shouldn’t persist in this mandatory lap time protocol if I hadn’t been doing it right away.. the comment that it was a little setback was super helpful, I hope it’s only a little haha

it’s so hard to know what to do, sometimes when he hisses I’ve reached out my fingers closer anyway (slowly) and his ears come forward again slightly, he sniffs my fingers and lets me rub the sides of his jaw or pet his forehead with one finger, you know..

hehe but it’s this — if he thinks I’m reaching further back to pick him up, he’ll completely snap

but I need to be able to do that to trim his claws.. soon, probably

so... huge thanks again to everyone and this is my remaining question — I should wait until I actually *need* to pick him up to be the next time I try to, not “practice” doing this if he’s that resistant, just let that idea go

I guess I had the impression (from the rescue folks) that he’ll never bond with me fully now that I missed doing this forced lap time with him the first week or two

that’s what I was worried about, and if I should try to force it anyway, it’s ‘training’, it’ll keep setting things back until it “works” and he knows, “ok this guy never hurts me when he picks me up” — or ..lol absolutely not if it sets everything back that much and that “ok..” might never even happen

?! hehe I totally get what you’re saying here but I’m still foggy on this one thing, picking him up for claw trimming or the vet.. my guess is you’ll tell me , “nah just wait till you need to do it, meantime do only disarming, playful stuff no “you’ll have to get used to this sometime so we should start now even if it pisses you off”

apologies for being so wordy or unclear
attaching pics since someone said it was ok, not trying to overdo it, I’m a humble newbie haha and huuugely appreciative
the double post earlier was an accident

 

[CatladyJan]

so... huge thanks again to everyone and this is my remaining question — I should wait until I actually *need* to pick him up to be the next time I try to, not “practice” doing this if he’s that resistant, just let that idea go

Yes, until he becomes more comfortable.

I guess I had the impression (from the rescue folks) that he’ll never bond with me fully now that I missed doing this forced lap time with him the first week or two

Maybe that is what they believed was most important.

that’s what I was worried about, and if I should try to force it anyway, it’s ‘training’, it’ll keep setting things back until it “works” and he knows, “ok this guy never hurts me when he picks me up” — or ..lol absolutely not if it sets everything back that much and that “ok..” might never even happen

?! hehe I totally get what you’re saying here but I’m still foggy on this one thing, picking him up for claw trimming or the vet.. my guess is you’ll tell me , “nah just wait till you need to do it, meantime do only disarming, playful stuff no “you’ll have to get used to this sometime so we should start now even if it pisses you off”

I would seriously not attempt claw trimming at this point in time unless the vet does it. It's only going to make him feel pinned in. If he needs to go to the vet there are several ways to get him into a carrier, it might not be a bad idea the keep the carrier out all the time and put some catnip in there so it desensitizes him.

For me using toys like: cat ball tower allowed us to get closer and you hit the balls toward him and block them when he returns them (back/forth) he will get used to your hands and wand toys. Anything that would make your hands a positive association.

 

[cat nap]

Everything that CatladyJan said,....I second it.
Definitely get Matthew used to a cat carrier by leaving it out in the open. I usually take off the door, and place treats and toys inside, ...along with a comfy cat bed or cat blanket...so the cats don't feel afraid of it.

(I did have to google what a 'cat ball tower' was...and it looks awesome.)
I usually play with 'ping pong balls' and just roll them around, and try to get my cats to bat at them. It ends up giving me more exercise than the cats, but hey, I need it.

My next question was going to be...."does he let you touch him?"...but looking at the above first photo...that's amazing.
You are so far ahead of the socialization curve, if that photo is an indication that you can.

bringing it up because this is the opposite.. replying to what was suggested here, he’s pretty comfortable eating food right out of my hand, sometimes lets me pet under his chin and nuzzles my hand.. not always lol.. but only when he’s on his tree, he seems scared on the ground, but has been exploring that more.. but I can’t approach or he’ll run up his tree. so he’s not so scared of the environment, it’s me haha.. unless wait.. does having had another cat before this matter? the scent? I assumed this mattered only if he hadn’t been neutered but I don’t actually know.. Toon had this tree for 15 years..

Yes, I think you are absolutely right. Scent does matter to cats,...but also the way their humans move around ...and talk to him.
He will get used to the new scents around the place, especially the more he does explore. Of course, only in his own 'cat time'...not 'human time'.

Try to do more of what Jcatbird mentioned about ...laying on the floor...or sitting down...and enticing him to come to you.

Can you get down on the floor with him? Laying on your back and just keeping him company can build trust. That position is one a cat views as most vulnerable and he will see that you trust him. Putting food near you during this is a great bonding tool. He may surprise you and come to investigate or even give a head bump after a good meal. At the least maybe he will decide to take a bath and pretend to ignore you. Lol He won’t really be ignoring you. He will be checking you out. Turning your back and walking away will show him indifference and that is cat language for, okay, I’m leaving! Done!

Also be very mindful about how you walk and move around your place. Make sure you talk to him so he knows where you are, even if approaching from another room. No fast walking or sudden loud sounds or movements. Eventually he will get used to the sounds and movements, though.

so I shouldn’t persist in this mandatory lap time protocol if I hadn’t been doing it right away.. the comment that it was a little setback was super helpful, I hope it’s only a little haha

it’s so hard to know what to do, sometimes when he hisses I’ve reached out my fingers closer anyway (slowly) and his ears come forward again slightly, he sniffs my fingers and lets me rub the sides of his jaw or pet his forehead with one finger, you know..

hehe but it’s this — if he thinks I’m reaching further back to pick him up, he’ll completely snap

That's a real good sign that he sniffs your fingers and lets you rub on the sides of his jaw.
So basically he is telling you that he is "not cool with you wanting to pick him up"....but it's okay if you are near.
To me, I would have thought that he would automatically lash out and swat at you...since he would want to protect himself...but instead he is only trying to 'communicate' what he wants and does not want.

so... huge thanks again to everyone and this is my remaining question — I should wait until I actually *need* to pick him up to be the next time I try to, not “practice” doing this if he’s that resistant, just let that idea go

I would not try and force the issue of trying to pick him up and placing him on your lap,... but only because I think that he will naturally want to move closer and want to be near to you,... as he gets more Confident and Comfortable.

?! hehe I totally get what you’re saying here but I’m still foggy on this one thing, picking him up for claw trimming or the vet.. my guess is you’ll tell me , “nah just wait till you need to do it, meantime do only disarming, playful stuff no “you’ll have to get used to this sometime so we should start now even if it pisses you off”

The problem with 'picking him up' ...if he is still scared...is that he will remember it....for a while...and lose trust in you.
It's better to gain his Trust daily, through Play and Food, and entice him to come to you.
That way, he won't get scared and react in defense.

Since you are able to still touch him at times....then start small by touching one paw...for a stroke. Then next time the other.
Eventually, he won't mind having his paws touched.
Only do this after he's feeling more comfortable around you....or you being near him.

Oh, and hey, ....post more photos, too.
Cat Site people love, love, love seeing photos. ( what else are we going to watch on a winter's day.)

 

[emphatic]

thanks again, I’m sure you all know how massively helpful this is. especially now with covid and semi-lockdown.. I live alone, I was starting to get a little depressed..

so now I’m clear on this, I set it back by picking him up and putting him on my lap that time when it hadn’t been consistent, it was like a knee-jerk reaction on my part when I remembered I was supposed to be doing that from day one, I
misunderstood the rescue people (cypress feline rescue, in Brooklyn NY, if it matters.. surprisingly informed and thorough, generous people, could write an essay on this haha) regarding how I would’ve had to be consistent for that to work

so.. also.. they’re moody and inconsistent about these things, too, right? he lets me get close and pet his nose or jaw, but then later I’ll approach from further away and he’ll hiss... I don’t react I just let all the excitement drain and turn my back on him for about a minute

laying on the floor.. yea that’s a thing I always did with Toon (I also squat when talking to kids so that I’m ‘looking up to them’ ha), but Matthew doesn’t come down on floor except to eat and is super nervous.. I can approach slowly with something to sprinkle on it, he’s hungry enough if he’s started and gotten a taste lol that he’ll be cool with that... I started picking up the food and making him eat out of my hand, keep my face kind of close so he gets used to me.. it’s great but then an hour later he’s back to guarded, hissing.. it’s funny tho because he’s all over his tree like he owns it, like a raccoon, super playful.. but I cant get him down on the floor to toss anything..yet... lol I toss his toys back-and-forth between my hands like I’m trying to tempt him to play, but like someone here said I’m getting much more exercise than he is haha is that why I got him? he’s m

great stuff, thanks...walking around and talking to him before I enter the room.. this is stuff I would think I would’ve thought of but hadn’t.. I looked up ‘cat ball tower‘ — oh those concentric circle thangs? I thougt it would be balls on string or elastic (dunno why).. I’ll get one of those.

good on the carrier idea also, I would have worried that would spook a cat, like every day he’s worried he’s going to be taken to the vet.. I’m honestly pretty sure I’d have no problem getting him in a carrier without having to prep him that way (or that long in advance), I was more confused how to approach or pet him.. he’s had a *slight*, occasional clear discharge from one eye and I can’t wipe it with my pinky without ‘creating some sort of problem’ loll but it’s not bad so I’ll just wait for now

this is so helpful not just for Matthew but for my mental health hehe I feel way more clear now about how to do this and to let his hissing roll off me and not feel insulted like

you people are great.. not just that you reply but you address everything, it’s great. I do this kind of thing and lots else for young undocumented people and I believe very much in karma, now I have to pay this forward to some cats or cat friends

I want to rename him but haven’t found the right name, is that weird? the only person I know named Matthew isn’t an association I want to make, it feels weird to call him that.. I just call him Little Bro.. have been asking him what his name is, almost named him Sesame but am not convinced lol

what a trip. I’m the kind of person who determines that, even though I say “I didn’t know what I was getting myself into”, unconsciously I probably did, and this is training for *me* which I need.

thanks again

 

[emphatic]

my cat before this guy, Toon, since you said you love pictures of cats.. what a heavenly relationship I had with this guy, I could trim his claws, pick his front paws up stand him up and dance with him hehe vets always said they’d never seen a more well behaved, tolerant cat. I was spoiled, that’s why this is has been so disorienting

haha hope this isn’t too many

 

[emphatic]

^ I got him at 8 weeks old, the kitten photo was his first day (in a much smaller apt)

 

[CatladyJan]

You’re doing great. One of my 3.5 m/o old kittens I have to re earn her trust since I had to take her for her spay this past Wednesday. She will come back around lol.

 

[pearl99]

All of the above!
I will add that my cat Waffles I've never been able to trim his claws, he's fine- he scratches and they are worn down some, not growing endlessly in his case. He's 6 years old and I adopted him at age two years. I still can't walk up to him and pick him up- he was a stray, unfixed and with wounds- and likely a semi-feral kitty. With his yearly vet checks and shots I can ask the vet to trim claws when he's there. I haven't needed to at home.
So go slowly and at Matthew's pace, which it sounds like you are doing and things are moving!
All of the above about picking up. Some cats hate it and some are okay and some like it.
For the vet it's been difficult with Waffles to get him in a carrier, but I get it done but don't look forward to it. He does forgive me after we get home. So I sympathize!
Matthew will learn to trust more, it totally sounds like to me. He is adorable!! I have a little Siamese grandma cat- she's 12 years old.
Keep us posted on how things are going!
Yes pictures and more!

 

[cat nap]

so now I’m clear on this, I set it back by picking him up and putting him on my lap that time when it hadn’t been consistent, it was like a knee-jerk reaction on my part when I remembered I was supposed to be doing that from day one, I
misunderstood the rescue people (cypress feline rescue, in Brooklyn NY, if it matters.. surprisingly informed and thorough, generous people, could write an essay on this haha) regarding how I would’ve had to be consistent for that to work

I don't think you did anything wrong. I think the Rescue people might have mentioned putting him on your lap right away as just another tool for a cat to bond...but that only works if the cat likes to sit.
For a kitten in a new home,...there is so much new stuff to explore first and they have to be tremendously scared being in a new place, new sounds, smells and things to see. It's a huge change for them.

so.. also.. they’re moody and inconsistent about these things, too, right? he lets me get close and pet his nose or jaw, but then later I’ll approach from further away and he’ll hiss... I don’t react I just let all the excitement drain and turn my back on him for about a minute

'Moody and inconsistent'...haha...I think that might be a cat's 'middle name'.
No but seriously, ...if you really pay attention to their behaviour, and ask yourself to be in their shoes/paws....then it all starts to make sense. Sort of like your analysis of why the Scent of the new place might be unfamiliar to him, so he still needs time to adjust.

Each of our cats have their own personalities,...and it's just amazing to see how different they are.
Sure they might do some things similar to what our other cats do, like play, hunt, run, eat,... but the little unique things are what I enjoy watching and finding out the most.

laying on the floor.. yea that’s a thing I always did with Toon (I also squat when talking to kids so that I’m ‘looking up to them’ ha), but Matthew doesn’t come down on floor except to eat and is super nervous.. I can approach slowly with something to sprinkle on it, he’s hungry enough if he’s started and gotten a taste lol that he’ll be cool with that... I started picking up the food and making him eat out of my hand, keep my face kind of close so he gets used to me.. it’s great but then an hour later he’s back to guarded, hissing.. it’s funny tho because he’s all over his tree like he owns it, like a raccoon, super playful.. but I cant get him down on the floor to toss anything..yet... lol I toss his toys back-and-forth between my hands like I’m trying to tempt him to play, but like someone here said I’m getting much more exercise than he is haha is that why I got him? he’s m

I think that kittens also get quickly tired, even though they run around like wild.
Catlady Jan mentioned that you don't want to smother a kitten with too much attention, and that's so true. They get irritated quick.

The lap sitting and all is important, but you don't want to smother the kitten it's important that it comes to you on it's own terms. I have found that when you approach the kitten to act as if you don't see it and walk right past it. Play hot and cold.
It takes a lot of time and extreme amount of patience to socialize.

I know that my 5 year old male cat gets scared if I toss a soft plush toy towards him...so I have to toss it away from him. He only does not get startled if he hears ping pong balls rolling towards him.

Maybe you can also try reading out loud to Matthew while you are down sitting on the floor...in a gentle voice.
It might help with him hearing your voice more.

I looked up ‘cat ball tower‘ — oh those concentric circle thangs? I thougt it would be balls on string or elastic (dunno why).. I’ll get one of those.

Atleast you thought of balls on a string or elastic...I thought it was literally a "tower" made from balls....like a pyramid or something...in which the cats had to climb it...or sleep on it. I had no idea.
It does look fun and cool, though.

good on the carrier idea also, I would have worried that would spook a cat, like every day he’s worried he’s going to be taken to the vet.. I’m honestly pretty sure I’d have no problem getting him in a carrier without having to prep him that way (or that long in advance), I was more confused how to approach or pet him.. he’s had a *slight*, occasional clear discharge from one eye and I can’t wipe it with my pinky without ‘creating some sort of problem’ loll but it’s not bad so I’ll just wait for now

For my previous cats it was the opposite....seeing a carrier suddenly appear meant...."run under the bed...it's vet time"...so now, after reading threads on the cat site, ....I tend to keep the carriers out and in the open. No more fear of them...or so I hope.

this is so helpful not just for Matthew but for my mental health hehe I feel way more clear now about how to do this and to let his hissing roll off me and not feel insulted like

you people are great.. not just that you reply but you address everything, it’s great. I do this kind of thing and lots else for young undocumented people and I believe very much in karma, now I have to pay this forward to some cats or cat friends

I want to rename him but haven’t found the right name, is that weird? the only person I know named Matthew isn’t an association I want to make, it feels weird to call him that.. I just call him Little Bro.. have been asking him what his name is, almost named him Sesame but am not convinced lol

what a trip. I’m the kind of person who determines that, even though I say “I didn’t know what I was getting myself into”, unconsciously I probably did, and this is training for *me* which I need.

thanks again

Letting the hissing roll off you is the way to be. It's hard though.
(When my aunt's cat does it, I'm always like, "Hey, dude, calm down now. No need to use that language around me." But I think he's only telling me to walk slower, not approach him from above, and not to ever, ever touch his tail or back. With cats you live and learn.

Paying it forward is a good thing. I like that.

As for the new name thing...not weird at all. Pick a name that suits him, and his personality.
'Little Bro' sounds nice.
Besides most cats have multiple names. You only use the official one on their paperwork.

I don't get Sesame...but okay....is it for Sesame Street, or open Sesame...or Sesame seed bagels...lol.
Whatever. It's your choice, and you'll probably go through a few, before the right one fits.

Oh, and yes, we all need to be 'trained' by our cats. Good exercise, and good teachings in patience, gratitude, and all the good things.

 

[cat nap]

my cat before this guy, Toon, since you said you love pictures of cats.. what a heavenly relationship I had with this guy, I could trim his claws, pick his front paws up stand him up and dance with him hehe vets always said they’d never seen a more well behaved, tolerant cat. I was spoiled, that’s why this is has been so disorienting

haha hope this isn’t too many

I tend to ramble, so please feel free to 'skim' some of the things I write.

Your previous cat Toon is beautiful. He always will be. And he always will have that special place in your heart.
That photo of him as a kitten and then when older...wow...kittens grow up way too fast.

It is so difficult when we have to let go of our animals, since their lives are shorter.
I look at it now as 'new chapters' or 'new books' within my life.
But it's different for everyone. Every animal teaches me something new.

I'm so glad that you adopted this new kitten, and are open to this new adventure.
I'm thinking that Toon is watching over you, ...and will help you with your new adventure, too.
Sure you may have been spoiled, and nothing wrong with that. Now you just have to take it day by day, and learn something new again. Remember to go easy on yourself and give it time. Oh, and some playful effort, too.
Little Bro or Sesame or 'other name' will understand that.

 

[pearl99]

I like Little Bro too! I have a friend who had two cats named Big and Little. Not nicknames, their full names. So, any name that fits.

 

[emphatic]

Hey hey.. I feel bad I dropped off for a bit, didn't want to run it into the ground and make people spend time writing back, thought I'd put the advice to use first..

So he's coming along, guess it's been about a month since I was last here — lots of progress but today was a setback and I'm trying to stay..put and figure out if I'm doing the right thing, I found myself getting really upset

Since then, he's gotten more comfortable, he comes down and hangs out on the floor in the kitchen.. I give him these (awesome) Churu treats he licks off my fingers, I approach slowly, talks super softly and sweetly like I'm talking to a baby, I'm actually really good at that, it's my nature.. when my back is turned in the kitchen (not nec when he smells food, if that matters), he comes up and noses the back of my leg, seems like he's trying to be sweet.. but still, no matter how slowly I reach out my hand, he'll ..sniff it and then when he realizes I don't have any food lol his ears go back like I'm trying to trick him into letting me pet him,

The disparity between how much more comfortable he is with the apartment vs myself is disappointing, he's still scared of me, even after all the playing (we do a lot), he'll come up on my bed now, which is new, when I have the cat dancer toy and lure him with it,

I started putting his food bowl near my face while I'm laying on the floor after accidentally discovering that because his bowl is light, as it gets emptier he winds up ushing t closer to my face, the last couple minutes is spent kind of nuzzling my face with the top of his head, I'll discreetly kiss the top of his head while that happens, it's actually rather cool.. but then when it's over it's like it never happened haha he snapc back into paranoid mode

This is still normal, the complete inconsistency? or are some cats just 'damaged'? I don't mean to be harsh, I'm honestly still daunted and confused as to how to understand this

The rescue people, who I'm trying not to bother too much, I may have burnt them out lol.. they last said, emphatically, "you have to pet him every day", even after knowing that I let the first 'critical' two weeks go by without doing this.. and a few days ago, a cat owner friend reinforced this, that I should do it even if I have to ignore his initial hissing when I start to, because he needs to learn that I'm not hurting him, not to be afraid, I'm his caretaker and I have to be able to pick him up, etc (in addition to simply wanting to build an affectionate relationship with my cat),

So yesterday, tho he was on the top tier of his cat tree, his safe space (when he's lower down he'll sprint up there to escape if he thinks I'm trying to pet him), I reached over and was petting him. he hissed at first, a couple times, but didn't freak out or move away, and I kept talkign really sweetly to him telling him, "see? nobody will evvver hurt you, you're my buddy, you have to know I'm safe, I need to be able to take care of you..", etc etc..

I grabbed one of the Churu things and used it as a reward, he was licking the treat while I was petting him and using same reassuring soft happy voice, lots of play time later

This morning after he ate he went behind his tree (tree is this 3-thick-column sisal-covered post, I'm sure you get the picture),

I came over to him slowly like I have many times recently with no problem, and gotten much closer, but this time he hissed and his ears went back and he was growling.. I wasn't even that close, and I've been much closer without this happening..

I slowwwly reached a finger over (like I have more and more recently with no problem, petting his paws, then his jaw, kind of tucking my hand between them and very very lightly/slowly 'pulsing' my hand in the rhythm of his pulse.. I can get real in to this hehe which is why it's so frustrating that he doesn't get it yet)

And he snapped, hissed way louder than usual and swatted me and it pierced the skin. I didn't yell at him, but I got visibly tense, abruptly drew the black window curtain adjacent to his tree around the tree so as ti isolate him, not see each other, like I needed to send a message THAT is NOT acceptable

The cat I returned, Tracy, I returned after it punctured my hand while scrambling to get away after I picked him up.. it wasn't actually at all a swat or even defensive in any way, just inadvertent because he was trying to get away.. SO weird.. that cat hid under the dresser 24 hrs a day even after 5-6 weeks here, and it seemed unworkable, he wasn't ready for humans.. but thing is, even when he was in his tucked-in spots, he *never* hissed, would always let me stroke his chin, pet him, he seemed deeply, sweet tho extremely scared — this is humorous, Tracy was scared to death of the environment but remarkably cool with me, nevvver hissed and it seemed almost odd — Matthew (I feel bad, can't settle on a fitting name, but have been calling him Sesame..) is the polar opposite, comfortable with the apartment but scared of me

I'm now really upset, like I thought there was progress, I have this thing about my health being threatened, have been walking around my apartment almost muttering to myself "this is NOT ok, I was saying that if this happened I was going to give him back and wait the long while I'll probably have to for a kitten the age I know how to raise properly and deal with

I feel bad, I realize how seriously cool and crucial it is to adopt a shelter cat, to rescue cats, I'm absolutely on board with this and if I were wealthy I'd sponsor such things.. I get it.. but I also find myself feeling 'I don't owe this, my health comes first, this is *not* what I signed up for, I didn't know, it's my fault, I should just undo this and do what I set out to do and be mentally and emotionally at peace, some people are cut out for this and I'm simply not'

He seems like he could be a sweet cat, he's freakn adorable, extremely fun to play with and I admit I'm thrillllled that he climbs the tree and especially goes to the top, runs the gamut of his opportunity hehe..

But I honestly don't know, right now all I feel is grief. I feel like I need more instruction as to how much to try to get him used to being pet, I seem to be getting two completely polarized messages between all the people I ask — 1, play cold and let him come to you, and 2, train him, socialze him, or you'll have a cat you can never pet (kind of hat the rescue people were insistent upon) — and whether this is righteous enough or not, I can't have a cat that I can't pet or be affectionate with.

As crazy as it sounds, I alomst think I should trade him back for Tracy (who 'picked me', saw him totally peeping me from behind this box, he has the most beautiful blue-aqua-green eyes Ive ever seen on any creature.. Matthew was being more independent than his siblings, saw his caretakers playing with him while siblings were hiding, but to be honest he didn't 'pick' me at all, Tracy certainly did) — the rescue people said Tracy has come along since then, they let him out of his cage and were socializing him more,

I have to add this in: I have a 8x7' sound booth Tracy wouold hide under literally all day, only eat late night when I was "asleep", in an emergency I would not be able to just retrieve him from under there.. spend time walling off the perimiter with cardboard and then he did the same with the much mroe shallow space under my dresser, which made me just depressed, he couldn't even sit up under there, was hard to live with him seeming so miserable)

I'm distraught, I had to get antibiotics when Tracy scratched me, and I refuse to accept that happening again as being 'par for the course'. These scratched from this morning are light, not the kind of thing that will likely get infected, but this is after almost 2 months of being as gushingly kind and soft and sweet as I can, and was completely unexpected. and I was gently moving my finger over to his paw like I had with no problem a few times during the last few days

I'm all ears, I feel bad I write so much. my finger hurt from using my phone too much and so I'm on a computer, but I will update this with some photos from my homne shortly. I'll upload pics of Tracy also.

I totally get that it seems reckless and insensitive to think, "oh I'll just trade him back for the cat that actually liked me and picked me out now that I know more and have the underneath-things blocked off" — and so no, I'm not just looking to do that, I want to do what's right.. but my gut tells me I loved that other cat but he seemed too unready.. it's probably too late or too weird for rescue people to even think of such a thing, and I'm not really thinking of pursuing it, just being honest about the dynamics here so I can get the best advice

I would donate to this site and other places if I could, but I'm dealing with financial harship that can barely afford a cat hehe (it's not that bad, I still get him toys.. treats.. probiotics.. 'cat-curcumin' to help his 'cat-CBD' absorb better.. and hi-quality food.. Weruva.. opinions on food VERY much welcome here as well)

I don't know how I could give this cat more solace or love or do anything better until I better understand how to assess the situation. I can absolutely not go to Urgent Care again because of my hand getting infected like it did last time, this is the bottom line. do I wear the grooming glove and make this a mandatory ritual or "am I supposed to believe" that if I just wait, tho it takes much longer than I thought and was not what I signed up for, he will come around and be the buddy I was hoping, because cats are affectionate by nature

If anyone has any ideas, needles to say I'll be hugely grateful

 

[emphatic]

Tracy.. back at the shelter but no longer in a cage.. pics are from when he was here.. yeah I know it's not feasible to switch, just move cats around like that.. it's a lot of stress, I'm sure.. but I was in love with his eyes, ever-shifting from this intense blue to green,really hadn't seen that in a cat.. still miss him even tho he was only here for a month and barely ever saw him hahaa

 

[cat nap]

I'm really sorry that this setback happened to you, E emphatic ...and that you had such a bad day.
It sounds like Matthew's day wasn't so great, either.

Sometimes cats will perceive our fingers...like claws coming at them...so they get fearful...and defensive...and then lash out. Purely out of defense. I'm not sure if this is what Matthew felt...or if he just was too over-stimulated from being petted.
Always wearing the groomer's gloves, welder's gloves, or leather work gloves...and thick long sleeved shirts..or jacket...may have helped...with the trying to 'pat him training'...but you still may have had some accidents...where Matthew would have had enough, and hissed, growled or tried to swipe at you.

I think your health is important. So I would suggest that you talk to the Shelter People, ...and explain the entire situation...and that you don't think that you would be able to keep Matthew. Even as hard as this may seem.
I am hoping that Matthew being 8 months of age...that they would understand...and be able to fully socialize him...or find a foster person who can.
Matthew may never want to be a lap cat...or be picked up...and may just need someone...who is okay with that.

The Shelter people will understand. They would want to match up their cats with humans, as best they can.
You might need to find an older cat, who is already social and needs a home.
Or like you said...just step back for a while...and take a pause...and wait...until you are ready.

Contact the Shelter, and explain it to them.
They sound the type that will work with you, and do what's best for Matthew and you.