Help serious fighting issues......

[jonesy66]

We have 3 cats a mother cat named Momcat (4-5years old?) and her 2 grown kittens Koko (male) and Precious (female). They generally get along well Momcat and Precious scrap a little sometimes I told this is normal among females
being "catty".They've all been fixed too. Sometimes they play a little rough it always ends with a little scuffle and a hiss and its over. 5 minutes later they'll being cleaning each other.

Early this morning I heard a sound to wake the dead Momcat and Koko were seriously fighting each other like 2 alleycats it really freaked us out. They spilled their food dishes and knocked a bunch of stuff over. We kept them separate as they were still yowling at each other. The minute their time out ended they were at it again. Momcat chased koko into the bedroom I had to put a pillow between them and almost got scratched myself. spraying them with a water bottle doesn't seem to help.

Momcat seems to be the aggressor here. Right now its like a stale mate
they won't eat they're too worried about where the other cat is. Precious is in hiding too and won't come out. These are indoor cats and they haven't been taken out as I know that can cause one cat to not recognize another
for a bit. The kittens are about 2 years old fwiw.

Any clues as to the cause and what I can do? We're worried they won't use the littes we only have one too. sorry for the long post.

 

[madcat2k]

I don't have advice on what to do, but the cause seems simple enough, this is expected given that they are her 2 kittens.

At a certain age they are supposed to leave and defend for themselves in nature. I don't think it's very often that multiple kittens from the same mother are ever going to get on with the mother, because it's just not natural for the kittens to still be around.

If you break it down to instinct and nature, in cats and a lot of other mammals, the babies grow up to an age they are able to survive on their own, then they part ways in either pairs (such as male cheetahs leaving together, vs female cheetahs leaving solo) or single. The mother says goodbye to her babies and that is the end of it, but when she is forced to have them around all the time, it's going to cause problems. To her, they aren't "supposed" to be there, at all. They are 2 years old, that is way too long in her view, a year is not too bad even though it's a little longer than expected, but 2 years is past acceptable for her.

I think youl'l notice she will be the aggressor in most cases, but later on the other cats could get aggressive towards her, and it will end up to be fighting all the time. Someone with better advice can help you on what to do, but I guess I just wanted to talk about the most likely cause.

Let's say you're a 60 year old woman and your son has just been hanging around you all your life, and he's 40 years old now. Wouldn't you be angry that he seems to not attempting to do anything but cling near you?

Hope that helps, best of luck sorting the problem, I just don't think it will be an easy solution to fix given that it's completely normal if you think about it.

I can imagine the mother is just fed up with having 2 of them doing the same thing. So double that, 2x 40 year old kids clinging on to Mom and doing not a single thing but cling in the same place as her. To her, she's a victim of her children, and is just getting mad at them.

 

[jonesy66]

I thought of that too, cubs leaving the nest. I'm just surprised by the intensity of the aggression we haven't seen that from any of our cats.

 

[madcat2k]

They are 2 now, as a mother she's been tolerating them and she's been getting more and more annoyed as time went on, and just started an intense fight, and the boy did too. Unfortunately mothers have killed their cubs/kittens that refused to leave, at least in the wild. I remember reading up about that when I was researching on how female cougars raise their young.

I think, the fights will get worse and more intense as time goes on, unless you can get them to get on, and I think perhaps longer times apart might help, but could also have the opposite effect. It's a delicate situation that needs expert advice I think.

I know it's a shock to see them go really aggressive like that, especially if you weren't expecting it. It's happened to me, except I was the target. Still, quite a shock when you don't think it was going to happen. As indoor cats, are they around each other pretty much all day?

 

[pat traufield]

Without seeing the very beginning of the battle it is impossible to tell what happened. Possibilities include territorial issues or displaced aggression (inside cats reacting to outside cats).

The first step in any case is to separate the battling cats and go through a re-introduction period with them. There are many great articles and books about introducing cats. Re-introductions usually take longer than initial introductions. It is important to take is slow and let the cats set the pace of progress.

Since this was sudden you may also want to check that there is no medical causes - this could be as simple as painful dental problem or something more complex.

In a multi cat household it is important to have enough resources - one litter pan for each cat, plenty of scratching posts and cool hang out places and more than one food area.

Sometimes when cats reach social maturity they may decide they are not so social. The younsters are at that age now.

 

[jonesy66]

Arrived back from work a couple hours ago. Koko and Momcat had another scrap that my son broke up. We can't let them near each other they've kind of stalked out a spot at opposite corners of the living room and stare at each other. They had to be fed seperatley. Our other female Precious is hiding behind the couch and only came out for a minute to eat when we put food close.

Momcats shown aggression to her too. Its hard to keep them separated as they share a litter-box in our outer hallway. You can tell they're all very tense and paranoid. All the cats were at the vet a few weeks ago. She even remarked they had some of the healthiest teeth she had ever seen.

As far as displaced anger toward outdoor cats there was one nosing around
last night that Precious was hissing at. I think it's a neighbors that they let run
at night.

 

[missymotus]

Redirected aggression was my first thought.

Get more litter trays and keep them apart, slowly reintroduce them. Can you block their view of the visiting cat? Likely they will continue to fight if the cat still comes around.

 

[jonesy66]

Last night at bedtime we exiled Momcat to the bedroom. We put food,water and a make shift litter box in the adjoining bathroom. The other two behaved normally with her gone, my wife stayed up awhile to observe them. As far as displaced aggression I noticed them sniffing the bottom of our front door right where that other cat was hanging out.

Its possible but not practical to completely block the view from the patio door. In the past Momcat takes a very dim view of other cats being outside.
yowling and hissing. When she was a stray the area of our apartment complex was her territory. she never seemed to turn this on her kittens before we've had other cats,dogs visiting and she hardly took notice.

I think we'll keep feeding her and her box in the bathroom give her a sense of her own space more. Hopefully this will settle down in a day or two.

 

[momofmany]

If it were the issue of a mom cat driving away her young, that would have happened about 18 months ago. The age isn't right for that behavior, and it typically doesn't happen when they are all fixed.

I would first and foremost eliminate any health issues. What will trigger unexpected cat aggression is when one of them becomes ill. Cats do have a natural instinct to drive away a cat that is ill from their "prides". I have 2 chronically ill cats that take it out on each other when one of them is having a flair up. The nature of the fight tells me which one is ill and I take that cat into the vet.

Ruling out health issues, then I agree with the other posters. It may be redirected aggression (it is spring and cats are on the prowl for mates), or something may have spooked one of them and they think the other was responsible for it. Separation then reintroductions may help.

 

[otto]

First, check up for Momcat, to make sure she's not getting sick.

Second, one litter box is not enough. There should be four. One per cat, plus one, with at least one in a different place than the others. It is possible that Koko is blocking Momcat from the litter box, causing antagonism (or the other way around)

Third, feliway plug in diffusers, several, depending on the size of your home.

Please let us know how things go.

 

[pat traufield]

Re-introduction is a gradual process - don't just keep Momma separated and then bam they are all out together again. It is a slow process - lets the cats set the pace of progress. There are many great articles out there so I don't want to go into the whole thing because it is lengthy. Take your time and be patient.

In the meantime there are things you can do to discourage outside cats - you can find chemical repellents at hardware stores or garden centers. Remember to reapply them periodically.

Spring and therefore breeding season has begin and cats will be staking out territory. Sometimes even spayed and neutered animals have a impact from all the phermones in the area.

 

[pami]

I have a Mom cat (Easy) and all of her kittens (Tino, Ducky, Kiko and Laura). I have never had a problem with Easy (Mom cat) fighting with her babies (who I have had since they were born) they are 7 years old now.

I have had problems with 2 of the brothers with redirected aggression from seeing another cat outside, several times, after the age of 3.

First, as suggested, I would definitely take both cats in for a health check. When one is sick, their smell will change and sometimes cause the other cat to "attack".

I also strongly agree with adding more litter boxes and not allowing these 2 to be around each other, until after the health check and after a SLOW reintroduction process. Their relationship can be permamently damaged if you allow them to continue to fight, as well as, one or both could become
seriously injured.

After a health check there are steps you will have to take in order to help restore balance between them.

Feliway is excellent in helping to calm an upset kitty household.

 

[jonesy66]

After keeping Momcat exiled all day we let her out late last night. She slowly came out on her own stared the other 2 down for awhile but didn't attack. for the next hour or two they walked on eggshells around each other and we kept an eye on them but they seem ok.

They were even playing like normal for awhile. We're still gonna keep momcat separated at night at least for the next day or two.

 

[pat traufield]

The stare down is an aggressive signal in and of itself. If that happens again break the eye contact.

It is important that when the cats see each other - briefly - that it be paired with something good - her favorite treat in the world.

Take your time and don't expect things to be better in days.

 

[jonesy66]

I'm happy to report that they're all back to normal. "Normal" being relative for those three lol. there hasn't been any fighting that we've seen. They've all been happy and relaxed the last few days. They even got baths last night.