having trouble toilet training mouse with a dog around

[tweety91]

so i have mouse, a 4 month old female. When i first got her at 8weeks, i set up a litter box that she used fine. No issues. And the last month has been hell. We have a catflap which leads to the backyard where my flatmates 8month old boxer x mastiff is. Mouse goes out the catflap with no problems, but as soon as she goes to the dirt patch, frank the puppy chases her. She cant get that peace and privacy to go. Ive put a cover over a big hole where she gets a bit of privacy, but frank just digs under it to get to her. i dont always see him doing it so cant always tell him off.
Alot of people ive asked just tell me to keep using a litterbox. But i dont want a full grown cat which still uses a litter box. Oh, i stil have it in the house, clean etc but instead she poops on the carpet.
I take her out alot and wait because then i can tel the dog to go away, but her biggest problem is during the night. i take her out when i go to bed, but she doesnt poop. So she goes in the night on the carpet when she wants.

Everywhere on the internet tells me little tricks but cant do any of them due to where we live and of course, the dog.
Things like slowly moving the little box to where you want her to go, the dog just eats it the second its outside.
Burying kitty litter or her poop where you want her to go, again the dog just eats it.
Leaving a window open so she can sneak past the dog without the dog hearing the cat flap, we live in a not-so-nice area so dont want to do that while we arent home.
I cant tie the dog up all the time because thats not fair.
And i cant bare to get rid of mouse because i love her to bits.
Ive tried using different things in her litter tray to see if that would work like dirt, news paper, grass clippings but nope. carpet it is.
She knows its wrong because when i spot it, i take her to it, say a firm no and put her outside where shes meant to go. She freaks out and tries to get away when i walk into the room with her.
I know im forgetting something but will comment it when i remember.
Please help!

 

[cat nap]

I'm not sure, but I think you will need to use 2 litter boxes, one inside and one outside.  I know you don't want to use any, and get her to use the dirt patch, but to ensure consistency she needs a one place method.  And it has to be one place for now.  From what you have said, it also has to be indoors for now, since she needs access to the litterbox at night.  She may well be having accidents because of confusion and stress.  

Try to get her used to going only in the indoors one, by placing her there frequently after meals and playtime.

When she has successfully used it, then offer some praise.  But not while she is going, because this might scare her.

When she does master the inside box, then you can introduce another box outside, but it would have to be in some sort of crate like structure, so only she had access to it, and the dog would not be able to get to her or the box.  You will have to build a small structure, then.

I would, for now just concentrate on the indoors, because this is where the problems are occurring.  Cats don't all ask to go outside, like dogs, and punishment never works, it just stresses them more. Makes them afraid and then they have more accidents.

You may have to get those special attractant products, to attract her to the box.

sorry, you never really said why you would not want an adult cat to use a litterbox?  It is the best for them.

hopefully more people with experience, will come online and offer further suggestions.  cheers.

 

[mservant]

I'm afraid I'm going to agree with @cat nap here and sound like we're ganging up on you, but we're not, it's just that I believe she has given you really good advice:  I think your Mouse needs to feel safe and secure, and have a clear understanding of where she has as her toilet.  This safe secure toilet does not sound like it is going to be outside.  Even if Frank the dog is not there when she toilets he will be there afterward and marking her space in different ways and that will upset her.

Does your flatmate's dog come indoors at all?  I am assuming he does?  Also, did you both get your fur family at the same time or did one arrive before the other, and if so who arrived first?  It sounds like there are some territory / confidence issues going on even if they seem to be playing fairly happily when you watch them.  I have attached a couple of Article links here which might be helpful in thinking about what Mouse is trying to tell you with her toilet behaviour, and also advice on how to have the best chance of your fur family getting along together in shared space.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/spraying-when-your-cat-uses-urine-to-mark-territory

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-dogs

I wonder if Mouse might also be peeing in secret places and some super sleuthing around your home would be time well spent.  If you live somewhere where you can get something called a Black Light, these apparently show up where cats have sprayed.  If this has been happening it is really important you thoroughly clean all areas with enzyme cleaner or she will continue to be confused by these areas and return to them.  Again, there are articles advising about this in the Articles section of the site.

What kind of tray do your have for Mouse?  Again I think cat nap is right that Mouse needs more than one tray, at least for now, and best to give her a choice of whether it is covered or uncovered.  You may prefer covered but if Mouse doesn't like what you offer her she is not going to use it and the consequence is going to be much worse than having the type or number of trays you don't want.  If Frank does come in to the house at all I suggest you do not put her litter where Frank can be present - other than one but NOT the only one being in the living area she is soiling the carpet currently.  The marking in the living area may well be her making a territorial statement and she needs to feel she can toilet safely somewhere.

The other thing that often helps is safe places other than the litter: boxes with small entrance holes, high cat trees, and shelves and cupboards that Mouse can go up on to, that feeling she can go up to where Frank or other scary people and creatures can not get to her but she can see them and watch them and escape to other places quickly if she feels she needs to.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I hope it helps you - and my boy's namesake Mouse. 

 

[tweety91]

franks an outside dog. i just cant understand how mouse used it completely fine, nothing changed and shes used it like once in the last month. even went right next to it. i think ive come to the conclusion that im building a fence round the garden she uses untill she is old enough to jump the fence and get away

 

[cat nap]

that's a pretty good idea, too. building a fence.  But for inside you are going to have to clean with that enzymatic cleaner that MServant said, or she will sniff it and go right back.  If she is scared, then she is marking her territory.  Maybe they mark anyway. idk.

does she sleep in your room, now?

..or is she like my cat that just passed and loved to stay out all night long...come traipsing in in the morning....eat, sleep, eat, sleep and out again....like he had a job.

 

[tweety91]

Its real old carpet in the room she uses so when she gets the hang of it, il put new carpet down. Shes been good today, its only night that she does it.
Shes not scared at all, she has an amazing life lol. And is a social butterfly as soon as people or dogs r here.
If anything shes scared of the dark.
She sleeps in my room at night but i leave my door open a bit so she can come and go. I take her out when i wake up in the night, sometimes she goes. Sometimes she doesnt.
She never pees inside. If she does. She uses the litter tray.

 

[tweety91]

20140331_171128.jpg

• tweety91
• Mar 30, 2014

Konked out after a big day of playing outside. Happiest cat around.

 

[mservant]

Sweeet sleeping Mouse. <3

With the only pooping on the livingroom carpet and at night, does that room have windows or a door to the outside that she can see out of?  Do you close blinds and curtains to cover the windows?  It might not be the dark she is afraid of but the other creatures she can see outside in the dark that you can't see because of your different eyesight.  

 

[cat nap]

I had a cat when I was younger, who would pee in one box, and poop in another box.  The reason I put down two boxes, was he was having poop accidents outside, but very close to the box.   So someone online, suggested two boxes.

He used them both, but then for no apparent reason starting to use only one, at about age 2.

 So, I still kept both, out, but it was a bonus for me that for some reason he just ended up finally using one.

For Mouse, she may not be able to distinguish outside grass to indoor carpet, so thinks everything on carpet is okay.  

Floppy, my dog would do this when we first got him, until he learned to go on the "doggy diaper pads", then eventually outside. 

 

[tweety91]

So im coming to the conclusion that mouse is just lazy. She went to her usual room to find that the door was shut. Sniffed under the door, then went out the catflap. PAst the dog, and to the garden and done her business.

 

[stephiedoodle]

Cats are not just lazy and I do not think you are thoroughly taking in the advice given you need to make sure everywhere Mouse has peed or pooped in your home that isn't the litter box is cleaned with an enzyme cleaner to kill the smell because she will just keep doing it. Regardless of whether it is old carpet and you plan to put down new when this stops! If you don't clean the carpet likely hood is it won't stop. I'm concerned this dog is left outside all the time on its own. That's not a healthy way to live it gets cold outside not to mention rain/snow/storms. 

She will continue to be confused if you are scolding her for pooping inside on the floor wanting her to go outside but also expecting her to use the box. It sounds like she is stressed this dog harassing her when she is out side doing her business will be causing her stress. Boxer mastiff cross breed dogs can be big and to mouse he will seem huge and down right scary when she is trying to pee or poop that's a really vulnerable time for a cat! You need to decide if you want her to carry on using a box or go out side and stick with it the confusion between it not being okay to poop on the carpet but okay to poop in the box will be confusing to her as cats do not know RIGHT from WRONG they just eventually learn that a certain behavior will make their owner act a certain way.

Please don't think I'm intending to be harsh or mean I'm not I just needed to get this point across as plainly as possible and that meant being very blunt

 

[tweety91]

I have it sorted thanks.
And the dog is not outside on its own all the time, its barely ever alone.
We dont get storms or snow where i live. The odd storm but not in the last 8 months. Nor rain in months.
He is well taken care of.

 

[tweety91]

And the cat is no way scared of the dog. She loves him, slees with him alot.
Maybe i didnt say, when shes doing her business and the dog tries to play, she goes and plays.
But as i said. Its sorted. No more advice from you please.

 

[stephiedoodle]

Okay no problem just i cant imagine it being comfortable for a kitten a pooch encroaching even playfully when trying to toilet but good luck with tour kittys toilet habits and I hope i didnt cause offense about the dog i wasnt aware of the weather where you are.