Having severe cat trouble....about to give up and shelter him. Please help.

[misterwhiskers]

This is a long shot, but have you tried a thunder jacket along with a litterbox just for him?

I wish you well.

 

[cattrouble]

Hey guys, I don't want to feel like I'm spamming but I need to vent about this cat.

He's been getting worse - he pees and poops in a new spot every day. Not because he doesn't like anything about his litterbox. He does it when he's stressed. We have two litterboxes that he's used but as of the last week he holds his bladder the ENTIRE day until something stresses him out to the point where he can't control it.

I'm seriously at my breaking point with him. I don't even know if the behaviorist will help. He's started hissing at my boyfriend whenever he even walks near him.

Yesterday we noticed he was smelling a lot like his anal gland secretion so we decided to investigate his frequent areas. Turns out he peed, pooped AND expressed his anal glands on the blanket we set out for him to lay on and feel comfortable. No reason he should have done this. We leave him alone all day. I don't know what set him off. Also found poop downstairs and I don't even KNOW when that happened. 

This morning...it's not even 9am yet, my boyfriend gets out of the shower and goes into the bedroom to get clothes. Nova is on the bed. As soon as my boyfriend is in the room Nova bolts off the bed....peeing as he goes. All over everything. He didn't use his litterbox at all yesterday or last night. We watched. Anyways, he runs downstairs and we're cleaning up his pee....boyfriend goes downstairs to get cleaning supplies and Nova has pooped all over the downstairs floor, too.

We also got him on new medication, Amitriptyline. Takes at least a month to become effective. I don't know if I can take a month of this.

We have NO idea what to do to calm him down. If we ignore him, he just ends up sitting downstairs or wherever and having accidents all over. If we show him any attention or affection, he ends up having an accident the moment we touch or talk to him. As of right now, we're keeping him in the bathroom until the behaviorist on Saturday. 

 

[catwoman707]

For your own sanity and to buy some time to work this out (hopefully!) he really needs to be contained.

A large cage or a bathroom, someplace where you know he is not going all over the place.

I know you hate to do it, but what's worse, all the eliminating everywhere and giving him the boot, and all that stress? Or containing him, visit him often, but at least it removes the big issues happening now.

You can even put his brother in for visits

 

[reba]

Gosh I feel for both you and the cat. 

I would think containing him would be easier on him; it's not as though he perceives the world as a safe place.   It's an awful thing to not be able to keep your boat level when looking at the world around you.

Are you anywhere near a vet school?  Cornell has a  phone consultation service.  I'm thinking more for advice regarding the meds since they might have specialists (or someone needs a case study.)

I know expense is an issue, but have you considered a dog crate?  I got one at tractor supply and the litter pan, bed and food fit in there nicely without being overcrowded.  Come to think of it though, this turned out to be the absolute best thing I ever bought for keeping cats confined, but comfortable.  I got it when my bottle-fed kittens got big enough to walk, but I didn't want them running around the bedroom:

http://www.petsmart.com/featured-sh...-36-catid-100106?var_id=36-7033&_t=pfm=search

They have cheaper one's on amazon, but this was the one I used.  The bottom is held on by velcro, so you could remove it and wash it easily.  Then again it sounds like he is spraying pretty dramatically so maybe the bathroom is the safest place for him.

Also:  If you talk to people who have panic attacks (assuming that's what's going on), the one thing they consistently mention is it feels like they are going to die.  At least they can tell that the thoughts aren't rational, the cat has not choice but to trust his feelings.  Feelings that  escalate no matter what he does - whereas normally he could get in a safe place and calm down.  No wonder he's freaking out and pooping and peeing all over the place.

 

[catwoman707]

I had a thought, maybe see what the vet says about a low dose of acepromazine???

I have no idea if it can be used long term or even daily, maybe. (?)

I know it's widely used for cat anxiety, plane/car trips, etc.

My vet gives me a pill for anytime I am going to bring him a feral cat he will need to examine.

Works like a charm.

I just read about amitriptyline, it doesn't say a month to work, it says it can take several days for symptoms to start improving.

So it would have been good to hear that rather than thinking it will be a whole month.

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Amitriptyline-prod10480.html

 

[cattrouble]

We've decided to keep him out of the bathroom, despite his frequent accidents. He seems to be degrading a lot faster when he's locked up, every time we would check on him his breathing would be extremely fast and he just sat in his litterbox the entire time - even after using it. He went 3 days without an accident, but today I went to give him his nightly dose of medication and realized he soiled himself and just sat in it all day. :[ His symptoms are definitely not improving at all.

@Reba  : We'll consider the kennel if his behavior continues after we see the specialist on Saturday. We have one right now,  but it's fairly small and I doubt he'd enjoy it. Our goal right now is to make him feel as comfortable as we possibly can, and being confined definitely makes him more anxious. 

@catwoman707  : I've never heard of that before, but I'm pretty much open to anything at this point. I'll have to ask the vet about it + valium if the medication he's on now doesn't work. She won't let us get a new prescription for 2-4 weeks. 

 

[lilanimaluvr]

strongly recommend you switch meds to Prozac (fluoxetine). We have had many cats like this in our shelter and it works. Get 10mg capsules, empty one half in the morning and the other half in the evening into his canned food. In the capsule form it is largely tasteless. It also helps if you can figure out how to get him some time outside each day, the more the better, obviously in a proper enclosure. Good luck. The prozac will work..

 

[reba]

There's a nice way to say this if you decide to but who is she to say she won't let you? She's not the one dealing with the consequences of the cat suffering. It's true that the anti depressants take some time, but I think an argument can be made that the anti-anxiety meds should work fairly quickly and, if they aren't, another one can be tried. Now I don't know how quickly these meds are metabolized in cats and that may be a basis for waiting, but she should be able to explain her reasoning to you. Other things you may or may not have considered - namely the cyclical nature of panic when evaluating meds. In other words people get better and worse on their own without any drug intervention - assuming this is the same for kitties - if the meds level these peaks and valleys over a long period of time that's the definition of success you're looking for.

 

[cattrouble]

@lilanimaluvr  : Thanks for the suggestion! We'll talk about Prozac with the vet today. We do let him in the backyard sometimes, but we have to physically carry him around the house if we want him to move and I think it stresses him out. 

@Reba  : I totally agree, I just figured we'd listen to the vet. It's been 7 days now since we started dosing him - we actually have been doing double what the vet recommended because after reading a medical page the dose she prescribed was minuscule compared to what a regular dose in cats should be. She prescribed about 2.5mg when a regular dose is usually 5-10mg.  After reading a bit about his medication though, I feel like it might not be a good fit for him. He seems to suffer from a severe case of anxiety/stress, and what she keeps prescribing us is usually short-term anxiety relief for stuff like car rides or big changes in the cats' life. Gonna cal the vet later today and discuss more potent alternatives. After doing some reading we feel like either Valium, Prozac or Buspar would be his best choices.

 

[ardcp]

i am so sorry for your cat issues! i had a siamese himalayan mix that was afraid of everything. we got her as a kitten and she just got more fearful as she aged. her last straw was when my daughter brought home an aggressive kitten that chased her around if she left my bedroom(where she lived basically) she started peeing in my room and at my wits end, i put her in our bathroom with her own bed, box and food/water while i made an appt at the vet. the vet cleared her of any medical problems but she liked being in the bathroom so much, that she lived out her last years there! she lived to be 18 and loved having her own little space that felt safe. we would visit her but even if we left the door open, she would not come out. she liked to sleep under the sink on a blanket and she never peed on the floor again. she just needed to feel safe. possibly this would work with your cat. maybe life just scares him!

 

[catwoman707]

 
We've decided to keep him out of the bathroom, despite his frequent accidents. He seems to be degrading a lot faster when he's locked up, every time we would check on him his breathing would be extremely fast and he just sat in his litterbox the entire time - even after using it. He went 3 days without an accident, but today I went to give him his nightly dose of medication and realized he soiled himself and just sat in it all day. :[ His symptoms are definitely not improving at all.

@Reba  : We'll consider the kennel if his behavior continues after we see the specialist on Saturday. We have one right now,  but it's fairly small and I doubt he'd enjoy it. Our goal right now is to make him feel as comfortable as we possibly can, and being confined definitely makes him more anxious. 

@catwoman707  : I've never heard of that before, but I'm pretty much open to anything at this point. I'll have to ask the vet about it + valium if the medication he's on now doesn't work. She won't let us get a new prescription for 2-4 weeks. 

It looks like acepromazine is a short term solution, so it may not be appropriate for your kitty.

Most fears, phobias, and anxieties develop at the onset of social maturity, from 12 to 36 months of age. A profound form of fear and withdrawal of unknown cause often occurs around eight to ten months of age.

This is a quote from http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/behavioral/c_ct_fear_phobia_anxiety

It also states what you had mentioned too, that as long as it is untreated it will continue to progress.

You know, this is complicated. There are a few questions I wonder about. For instance, he sounds to be severely anxious, but yet he doesn't hide does he?

That makes my mind wander over to pain. A cat who has chronic, constant pain, for instance something that is causing the nervous system to continuously react inappropriately, such as pressure on his spine. Just as an example. Or diabetes. In other words the stress symptoms might actually be triggered by his body's response to pain.

It makes me think it might even be worth trying pain meds before giving up hope, if you see that his current med doesn't help at all.

Hormonal imbalance can cause this too. This is a more specific test rather than a blood test to show levels in his blood. 

I sure feel for you, and kitty. Very hard, sad situation, and give you a ton of credit for caring enough to find a way to resolve this problem behavior.

It just does not appear to me to be the standard, unsocialized cat type of stress, not at all. No matter how fearful a cat is when you get him, it's normal for them to improve with time, not get worse. That just never happens honestly.

So this does tell me something is off with him, but rather than it being behavioral, I think it stems from physical somewhere. Body is releasing too much this or not enough of that, something is out of sorts.

I wonder if it will take an actual specialist of some kind to find out just what it is that's causing this.

Hope to have some news from the vet today.

 

[cattrouble]

 
It looks like acepromazine is a short term solution, so it may not be appropriate for your kitty.

Most fears, phobias, and anxieties develop at the onset of social maturity, from 12 to 36 months of age. A profound form of fear and withdrawal of unknown cause often occurs around eight to ten months of age.

This is a quote from http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/behavioral/c_ct_fear_phobia_anxiety

It also states what you had mentioned too, that as long as it is untreated it will continue to progress.

You know, this is complicated. There are a few questions I wonder about. For instance, he sounds to be severely anxious, but yet he doesn't hide does he?

That makes my mind wander over to pain. A cat who has chronic, constant pain, for instance something that is causing the nervous system to continuously react inappropriately, such as pressure on his spine. Just as an example. Or diabetes. In other words the stress symptoms might actually be triggered by his body's response to pain.

It makes me think it might even be worth trying pain meds before giving up hope, if you see that his current med doesn't help at all.

Hormonal imbalance can cause this too. This is a more specific test rather than a blood test to show levels in his blood. 

I sure feel for you, and kitty. Very hard, sad situation, and give you a ton of credit for caring enough to find a way to resolve this problem behavior.

It just does not appear to me to be the standard, unsocialized cat type of stress, not at all. No matter how fearful a cat is when you get him, it's normal for them to improve with time, not get worse. That just never happens honestly.

So this does tell me something is off with him, but rather than it being behavioral, I think it stems from physical somewhere. Body is releasing too much this or not enough of that, something is out of sorts.

I wonder if it will take an actual specialist of some kind to find out just what it is that's causing this.

Hope to have some news from the vet today.

He hides sometimes, usually only when he's extremely stressed though. He'll run downstairs and hide under the table or couch. Most of the time he spends his day laying as far back in a corner as he can get. I've been thinking about pain as well, since he shows a few symptoms of a cat in pain. When the vet checked him she said he seems perfectly healthy, though.

Just had another bad incident.

We let him wander downstairs for a bit, he hung out/explored a little and seemed okay while my boyfriend was working. Boyfriend got done and came upstairs and mentioned Nova seemed really stressed out and it smelled funky downstairs, turns out he peed in the spot he was sitting in. We took him upstairs to rinse him off since he got it all over his fur, and as we were drying him he peed in the towel we were using to dry him. Peed twice in a matter of minutes. As soon as we brought Nova upstairs, our otherwise extremely lovable and "afraid-of-nothing" cat Cosmo HISSED at my boyfriend. For no reason. He was just walking by. 

At this point we're not even sure the behaviorist coming on Saturday will be able to help. I think our only hope is finding the right medication, but it's proving to be extremely difficult right now. We're on hold with the vet right now, discussing a more potent drug. This cat is driving me nuts lol.

 

[flowerdew]

Oh good heavens, how awful for all of you!

Nova seems to have a lot in common with my kitten, Claude, though Nova's case is more severe. Here's her story for reference: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/290560/psycho-kitty-as-early-warning-system-a-horror-story-long

Even without being able to evict the squirrels yet, I'm seeing a lot of improvement. I don't have a bullet-proof solution for you, but I've had varying levels of success with different things, and maybe some of this will help. (I'm hoping your report from the behaviorist can help me, too.)

Claude isn't crazy about Feliway, either. I do think it calms her a very little, but when I first used the spray, she wouldn't go anywhere near where I sprayed it. It was like she thought another cat had marked everything. She was very suspicious of the plug in at first, too.

She does do well on the Sentry calming collar. The pheromone in it mimics a mother cat's calming pheromone, rather than the facial marking one that Feliway emits. Claude was 8 weeks old when she left her mother - not terribly early, but it seems like it was too early for her, and I think her response to the collar supports that, too. Your cat might respond better to the collar, too - if nothing else, it's relatively inexpensive to try.

Claude has a very weird, cloth mother-like attachment to a rug in my house. I knew she liked to play on it and roll around on it, but I didn't realize how important it was to her until I locked her out of the room it was in while I painted it. Her anxious behaviors - peeing on my bed, hiding, sitting in one place for hours without moving - really first started showing during this time. Letting her back in the room after painting didn't help; it wasn't until I laid the rug down again that she began to get control of herself again. Claude needed to be confined in a largish closet after her spay, and I made sure that the rug was in there with her. This is obviously very Claude-specific, but maybe Nova has certain items that he has to have to feel secure? Keep an eye out.

She has shown amazing improvement on Prozac. You should definitely ask your vet about it. She has started sitting on my lap, asking to play, looking out the windows, eating her food, playing with my other kitten, even agreeing to petting and scritches since she's been on Prozac. This has really been a lifesaver.

I've also set up simple lairs for her around the house. A soft mat or towel behind an endtable, a cat bed, litter box and food in a large closet, a cardboard box with one half of the lid taped closed, things like that. I set them up and let her find them.

I hope some of these ideas help you a little bit. I'm sorry to hear that you feel Nova responds poorly to the bathroom - with a case like his, I would think that a small, defined space might be exactly what he needs for a while. Maybe a different room? It could be that, like with Claude's rug, there's something he needs to have in there with him. @catwoman707's suggestion that he might be in pain is worth looking at, too - I wondered about both that and hyperesthesia with Claude, and I still wonder about allergies.

Good luck. I understand your pain and admire your patience. I really would like to know what the behaviorist says - I hope they see something concrete and helpful that can be done.

 

[catwoman707]

 
He hides sometimes, usually only when he's extremely stressed though. He'll run downstairs and hide under the table or couch. Most of the time he spends his day laying as far back in a corner as he can get. I've been thinking about pain as well, since he shows a few symptoms of a cat in pain. When the vet checked him she said he seems perfectly healthy, though.

Just had another bad incident.

We let him wander downstairs for a bit, he hung out/explored a little and seemed okay while my boyfriend was working. Boyfriend got done and came upstairs and mentioned Nova seemed really stressed out and it smelled funky downstairs, turns out he peed in the spot he was sitting in. We took him upstairs to rinse him off since he got it all over his fur, and as we were drying him he peed in the towel we were using to dry him. Peed twice in a matter of minutes. As soon as we brought Nova upstairs, our otherwise extremely lovable and "afraid-of-nothing" cat Cosmo HISSED at my boyfriend. For no reason. He was just walking by. 

At this point we're not even sure the behaviorist coming on Saturday will be able to help. I think our only hope is finding the right medication, but it's proving to be extremely difficult right now. We're on hold with the vet right now, discussing a more potent drug. This cat is driving me nuts lol.

An overall exam won't show the vet what might be inside though. He appears fine health-wise on the outside because he is so young. 

What are the signs you see of possible pain?

The simplest solution would be to put him on pain meds for a short time, if there is significant improvement this might very well be the answer. 

I wouldn't worry so much about your other cat hissing, he senses things are amiss with his brother, and rinsing him off they are NOT all that fond of either!

You know what? We can only imagine how he is driving you nuts, seriously. You are both so patient, not that there's alot of options either but hold on, don't give up hope just yet, let's see what the behaviorist brings, one step at a time.

If you were getting support sooner it might have helped, but at your wits end with this and now we are asking you to hang on a bit more must be tough on you too.

 

[magdalena11]

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through all this

have you considered a second opinion (with a vet with less hang ups about giving a cat behavioral drugs, it's not like he's going to be stigmatized when applying for college, geez...) Maybe a local aspca could help with the blood work at a lower cost?

Also, speaking of Jackson Galaxy, I use his spirit essences on my girl and they really do help. She's a formally feral stray I took in chock full of health / behavioral issues. UR Fine and Stress Stopper gave been helpful to us. Maybe Intensive Care (and Nervous Nelly) for you.

 

[cattrouble]

We called the vet and she gave us a prescription for Buspar, which is one of the 3 I was hoping for. 

@flowerdew   :  I've heard about the calming collars, I'll have to look into one. We've actively tried to find something for Nova to attach to in a sort of calming way, but every single blanket, pillow, pillowcase, towel, rug, you name it, we put him on...he ends up having an accident on it. Every one of his, what we call "safe spots", also ends up having one or multiple accidents in them. The cat tree he originally liked to spend time in has become an anxiety trigger for him for some reason. We'll keep trying, though. Anything to make him more comfortable.

We just got him put on Buspar - it'll take a week to see results and if he doesn't show improvement we'll bump his dose up to double and then wait another week. If it doesn't work after that - we'll insist Prozac. The results you've mentioned in your cat sound exactly like he was the first day on Xanax. Sadly, it wears off after about 2 hours and any more doses seem to have literally no effect on him after his first dose.

Yeah, we thought he'd like the bathroom as well, but every time we checked on him he seemed to be getting more stressed. We'll definitely try to find things for him to calm down on - or keep an eye out.

Thanks for all the advice!

@catwoman707  : He breathes extremely rapidly when he's sleeping and anxious. He wheezes sometimes and snores, almost sounds like he's congested. His meow is very raspy - always has been. These are all things he's also done since we got him. We'll have to look into pain meds - maybe the behaviorist will be able to tell if he's in pain or not.

Both Nova and Cosmo are actually totally okay with water. They both seem to enjoy it. They come into the bathroom when either of us shower and as soon as we're done they hop in the bath. 

Thanks for the suppport, it means a lot.

Just had ANOTHER accident. He fell asleep by his food bowl and we were getting ready for bed, went to say goodnight to him and he had peed himself, and layed in it for about ~3 hours (since we last checked on him I'm assuming - since he was clean then). Absolutely no triggers, he was sleeping for what seemed like the entire time since he got up for food. He just didn't feel like getting up to go to his litterbox (which was like, 5 steps away from where he fell asleep) I guess. He used his litterbox earlier this morning so I know for sure he uses it/doesn't have a huge problem with the litter or scent or anything. He seriously holds his pee the entire day and just lets it go when he's either stressed out or his bladder just can't handle it anymore. He rarely has more than one accident a day, but today he's just been off the walls with them. Nothing has changed, but he seems to be getting worse. Not only has he started hissing, but he's having multiple accidents a day now.

 

[arthursmommy]

It really sounds like there is something physically wrong, even though I know you've had the vet check up and down. It sounds so much like it hurts him to pee, so he holds it until something triggers it or he relaxes enough to let loose. I can't imagine what, though.

Edit: I reread and realized that he hasn't been tested carefully. You might want to have it done. Severe pain can cause the anxiety he is demonstrating, but the behavioral drugs won't solve that problem because the pain is still there. If he has a bladder inflammation or some other issue like that, perhaps even congenital, it would explain the weird constellation of symptoms and resistance to behavioral efforts.

 

[annie page]

I have read your plight and all the ideas to help you,and to help your poor little friend,I had my cat go deaf overnight,i didnt even know it,it just started freaking out,like yours but without the poop.Have you checked the hearing,I would,I got told only help to settle him was valium and antideppressants,but I didnt want too if not total have too,i bought the Feliway ,1 to 3 a day natural little tablets,I cant remember the actual name,but you can find them through these other links too.I swear my cat was so much better in just over 2 weeks of having these daily.All natural,not chemicals,i really felt to tell you,they come in a 30 day amount,but i took my little man off them as while on them for about 8 weeks he mellowed out,i was so suprised.1 day i gave him 3 and he was naturally stoned,so I put it back to 2,but i wish you all the best,they were only about $19,worth the try I thought and I was shocked,it did.he is still nervy of course but no more freak outs.

Lots of luck Annie.

 

[magdalena11]

How did it go with the cat behaviorist??

 

[greencateyes]

If the Vet cannot find anything wrong, I would suggest contacting Cherie Vergini, telephone # (818) 577-5247. She is an animal psychic.

You can google her name and look at her website. I used her about 5 years ago. I along with my 14 y.o. Cat moved in with my mom and two of her 2 y,o. Cats after I got divorced. We were together over 20 years, two moths before I moved, her sister got sick and died in my arms at the vet.

My precious cat would sleep with me and hide under the bed all day. It broken heart. One session with Cherie, and within 2 months she was fine. Cherie does telephone consultations. She is the real deal. Good luck