Have I inadvertently created a setback?

[hbunny]

My newbie to the indoor life kitty Shortstack has been such a snuggle bug and settling in to the good life, when this evening I was sitting with him across my lap (his usual spot) and I was watching a cat video on my phone on facebook (like any of us ever do that! 

)

It was a video of a cat that had gotten locked outside and it was making this mowww-mowww-mowww talking sound, and then it hissed, and resumed the mowww-mowww thing.  He looked at my phone, growled, and grabbed my wrist and bit me!  HARD!  Instinct made me jump up, I dropped the phone on the floor with the video still going, and he pounced all the way up on my thigh and dug in with claws and bit again!  He was hissing and growling the whole time.  I pushed him away with my foot once I got him off my leg and grabbed the phone and closed the app so it would stop, and he sat flipping that tail with his ears back at me.  I talked to him and he calmed down, I made for the kitchen (watching my back) and got him to follow me away from where it occurred.  I picked him up and carried him to his room once he seemed a bit chilled out, fed him, and left him in there (I went and let my other cat out, I'm site swapping preparing to intro the two).

I immediately went for the peroxide, then doused alcohol on all my wounds, followed by some Bacitracin.

I'm afraid now that I have instilled a fear of the phone, the area near the end of the couch, or possibly put him in attack mode towards me.  I was saying BAD KITTY! BAD KITTY! NO! NO!   I'm just so afraid this whole experience will impact his behavior.  Since having him neutered and bringing him inside, my only problem with him at all has been that he is so clingy (and getting chunky).  He has always been an extremely submissive cat to people (out of fear--he only trusts me and my hubby as far as humans go) and to other cats.  I swear though he wasn't going to back down from me the whole time he was hearing that cat mow-mow-mowing on the video.  It's like he became a different cat. 

I'm also afraid that his true personality may be coming out now that he is getting comfortable.  He wants his way and he is used to getting it.  I know I need to start some behavior modification now that he is getting used to his new indoor surroundings, but I've been so focused on getting him trusting and comfortable inside and trying to keep him and Wurp separate that I've let him get away with far too much apparently.  I'm also worried how this will impact him meeting Wurp again once I reintroduce them.  He was very submissive of Wurp and very afraid of him--he hid in our fireplace the last time Wurp bullied him and growled, that was it.  This was a full on attack though.  BTW, he isn't phased by shaking a noisemaker, or water squirts, or distractions when he is focused on something--Wurp isn't either.  Food is about all that will distract either of my boys.

What should I do now?  I'm not sure I want to let him back out in the house tonight until he gets over his upset episode, and me over mine!

 

[molly92]

Oh dear! Are you ok? That sounds painful and a bit traumatizing for both of you, to say the least! 

I don't think all is lost, though! If he's just been neutered recently, his hormones will still take several weeks to fully leave his system, and I would bet that's what fueled his aggression. I don't think that's his "true personality!" It sounds like he was getting very used to indoor life, being able to smell the other cat in the house but confident that it's not in the room with him and it's not a threat to his space, food, or people. Then out of nowhere, there's a cat being very aggressive right next to him! That he couldn't see it or smell it probably made him much more confused and shocked. Everything he thought he knew about this place has been shattered, hence the violent reaction. He felt scared and personally threatened in a space he had assumed was safe. As a former intact outdoor cat, those sounds probably also triggered some unpleasant memories.

I would wait a really long time before watching any cat videos without headphones again, for sure. This will probably be a setback, for both him learning to trust you and you trusting him. I think you just have to go back to the basics for a bit and take your cue from him with how fast he's willing to go. Definitely don't try any "training" methods that might shake his calm, just be gentle and respectful and he will come around. (Positive reinforcement tends to have better results anyway.) You will probably want to postpone your introduction plans a bit until you're confident he's back to the comfort level he was at before. 

Keeping him confined to one room for now is just fine. He'll probably feel safer that way, too. He will trust you again, I promise. Cats are actually amazingly capable of forgiveness. He will watch you very carefully for a while first, though, just to make sure that incident does not happen again. When he's decided enough time has passed that you're not likely to repeat that behavior (that timeline is different for every cat), or he just misses snuggles so much that he feels like risking it, he will come back to you. 

Also, do whatever you can to help yourself relax and feel better. You're going to be instinctively afraid of Shortstack for a while and that's very natural because your brain is trying to protect you. Try to focus on memories of him being a sweet cuddlebug when you're around him, because if you're relaxed he will take his cue from you and vice versa. 

I don't know what else he's done, but it doesn't sound to me like you've been letting him "get away" with anything. It sounds like you've been very caring and loving and he has appreciated that!

 

[hexiesfriend]

Ouch!!! I'd get the catnip out and refrain from watching any cat videos around him. Redirected aggression is common. If your cat feels threatened and he happens to be in your lap it may happen again. It's just how some cats are and is not an indication of their lack of affection for you. I'd try to keep his surroundings calm if you are going to cuddle. I've had more than one encounter like yours and the cat always gets over it much quicker than I did. I was the one that didn't want to cuddle the next day because I was still licking my wounds!! Good luck and don't give up!

 

[hbunny]

Oh thank you! I actually cried over this, I was just getting him comfortable. It's been a month, but I was going to give it another month before I tried to let him and Wurp see each other again. It may be longer now. I'm okay, but wow! It was one of those things I never thought twice about, but I sure won't do again. He definitely related it to the phone and kept sniffing, the sound but no scent freaked him out. Thank you so much! I was so worried I'd lose his trust. It took me a year to get him to come near me [emoji]128542[/emoji]. I love that little booger, he's come so far--and then I do this!!

 

[lykakitty]

Do NOT use any adversives. That includes water bottles and all that. They're not nearly as effective as other things and can do much more harm than good. They can make him associate bad things with you (or with your other cat, or any number of things) and cause even more of a setback. Especially on a cat who already has trust problems.

The fact that they're both food motivated is awesome. Food is the easiest thing to make associations with and very useful for both getting cats used to each other and behavior modification. I suggest swapping out the noisemakers and squirt bottles for some good treats, it'll be a lot better for everyone involved.

As for this incident, it's very possible that he reacted to the sounds the cat in the video was making. Especially since he used to be outdoors, where he would've had to learn how to react to other cats' body language and sounds very quickly. What probably happened is he instinctively reacted aggressively to the cat in the video's hissing and meowing and because there was no cat to act aggressively towards his aggression was redirected to the nearest thing, which unfortunately was you. Your instinctive reaction scared him and it just snowballed.

I think a big part of this problem is just him getting used to being an indoor cat, as well as the hormones of being am intact male getting out of his system. There's not much you can do to speed up either, but make sure to be very gentle and careful around him until he's comfortable again. It's hard to say whether he associated this bad experience with anything right now, you'll just have to watch him and gauge his reactions to various things. It's possible that he could just hide for a little bit and bounce right back, or he could become scared of anything involved in that incident. If he does seem to be scared of or suddenly aggressive towatds anything make sure to give him lots of positive experiences with it (where he gets lots of attention and treats while he's around it) but don't force him into any interactions that make him uncomfortable. Be sure to go at his pace.

 

[hexiesfriend]

Oh you poor thing. I don't think he will have a negative association with your phone. I think he just heard a threat to him (the cat in the video) and went into defense mode. You can always rub your phone in some catnip as insurance. You might not like it's smell but he will!!

 

[DreamerRose]

I think this will wear off, too. Mingo used to get very upset when I watch cat videos on my computer until he figured out they weren't real. Now he takes no notice. Cats do realize at first that it's a real cat making the noises, and they react to it.

 

[hbunny]

Thank you all so much. I have just beat myself up over this. I just peeked in at him and surprisingly he acted normal towards me, purred, loved on me with head butts when I picked him up. I told him I'm sorry a hundred times! I gave him love, another one of his snuggle toys, and quite a few of the freeze dried treats he loves. I'm leaving him in his safe room though until in the morning at the usual time I let him out. He goes to his room if something upsets him, so maybe it will calm him. I just feel like such a heel. I'm so used to Wurp, he pays no attention to "canned" noises, and it just never crossed my mind it might bother him.
Thanks for the advice about the squirt bottles and noisemakers! I can completely see how they could do a negative association. Yes, my boys are food driven, extremely food driven! I separated a couple of Mexican standoffs with treats easily, I just honestly haven't thought about using it to my advantage!

 

[lykakitty]

I'm glad to hear he seems to be okay! I have a super food motivated cat myself so I've gotten all the tricks down :lol3: I've found a food motivated cat is actually easier in some ways than one who's not, even if they're like my little miss Calypso and will happily rip your fingers off to get to a treat. Once they figure out what gets them the treat they're golden.

 

[hbunny]

I'm asking for help again!   Since my episode with the cat video the other night, I'm in paranoid mode around Shortstack.  Saturday morning my hubby let him out (hubby came home into the wee hours of Saturday AM) after putting Wurp in our bedroom (he stays loose in the house all night).  Shortstack rubbed around me, followed me like a puppy like he always does, hopped in my lap when I sat on the couch.  I have a horrid fear now when he gets near my face...he sat in my lap and just gave me the crazy-eyes while I petted him.  He has always just stared at me when he is in my lap, rolling around like he does, but this somehow seems different, almost a challenge, instead of a loving gaze.  I put him in the floor and he stared at me in the eyes with his ears back.  He was purring, but at the same time has this look like he could just snap at any moment.  I made hubby call him over to him when I got up, since my ankles were uncovered as I was in my robe still (the memory of him hanging on my leg clawing and biting through a pair of jeans, growling, is still fresh!)

He has always been notorious for clawing my ankle when I would walk away from him, especially after petting him.  It's like he was saying "come back, I'm not done with your attention", or so I thought.  He hurts with those claws, but I would ignore him in the hopes that it would stop the attention-seeking behavior.  But Saturday morning I wasn't comfortable really being around him until I was dressed with jeans, socks, and thick shoes.  He heard a commercial on the television Saturday and started his growling.  I think it was children squealing on the tv, but he was doing the low warning growl.  I was afraid of the misplaced aggression again.  Later he did it when I walked down the hall and apparently he hadn't seen me go down the hall...he growled at me until I talked to him.  I've never heard of misplaced fear-based aggression, but that seems to be the case with him.  I warned hubby to watch his ankles, but he thinks I'm overreacting.  I know I am, but man!  That fat cat hanging off my leg biting and growling HURT and I can't help but be skittish around him!  Plus the bite on my wrist is still angry and puffy, despite Bactroban ointment.

I blew it off to my paranoia, but at the same time Saturday I really observed his reactions to various noises, interactions, etc.  He seems to get a bit overstimulated by petting, but doesn't bite or scratch, he just gets the tail twitching hard and gets very angry when you stop.  He is nervous about noises from the television, and I know it probably confuses him because he can't see or smell where it is coming from, but he has been in the house over a month now and around the TV a lot.  He normally walks out of the room if something intense is on the TV, but I am afraid now when he is on my lap that something will set him off and he will latch on tooth and nail to me again.  He follows me in the kitchen, and hangs out laying in the floor if I am in there working, but then all of a sudden he will come at my foot and grab my ankle out of the blue.

Sigh.  I am sure all this fear is me, and he is picking up on it, but do any of you have any advice????  I feel like I am failing miserably at integrating him into my household.

 

[hbunny]

Another thing...he has his "safe room" that he now all but refuses to go in when we need to swap them out.  He rushes the door and if you try to push him back in, hand or foot, he claws and bites.

 

[molly92]

I'm positive things are going to get better with time. Both you and your cat aren't going to recover from that incident in just a few days, and that's perfectly normal. Are you using a Feliway plugin? That might help for the room with the TV. 

Don't make eye contact with Shortstack for a while. It might feel like you're ignoring him, but in cat language, not making eye contact is a signal that you're comfortable with him. Even though you're not really comfortable yet, that will trick him a little bit and if he thinks you're comfortable, he's going to be a lot more comfortable himself. The slow blink is also a good thing to do regularly.

If you think he'd react well, keeping treats in a little bag with you whenever you're sitting down with him, and occasionally treating whenever he interacts positively with you, might go a long way to reinstating positive associations with his fears. If he has food aggression, though, that might not be such a good plan. 

Do not beat yourself up for feeling scared and nervous! That is so natural and understandable. You are going to be nervous around him for a while, and your brain has to be retrained just as much as his does by repeated exposures to the arrangement of Shortstack sitting on your lap with positive associations (the positive associations for you will be not being injured!). So if you do need to leave him if you're getting anxious that's fine. Perhaps you can cover yourself with a thick blanket whenever you sit down to provide protection and peace of mind. Faking calmness to the best of your ability is also good, because it will make him more calm which will make you more calm. Somewhere on here on some thread someone once mentioned taking a sip of alcohol to help steady the nerves, so that's something you can try if it appeals to you.

It sounds like you might want to get a doctor to look at that bite if it's not getting better. You might need more than just topical antibiotics at this point, and infections that progress without treatment for too long can become major inconveniences at the very least.

For the safe room, he might be reacting negatively because he was shoved in there immediately after the first incident. Not your fault at all! That was the right thing to do. But trying to force him in now might remind him of that too much. Can you feed him in there and close the door behind him perhaps?

You and Shortstack will get there! Give both him and yourself a lot of compassion and credit. You're both being very brave. You are not failing at all! Shortstack would not be doing nearly as well as he is if he had not learned to trust you so much beforehand.

 

[hbunny]

 

[molly92]

What is Shortstack telling me with all the eye contact?  I will gladly avoid the eye contact, matter of fact I tried that yesterday as an avoidance because it seemed like it was stirring him up, but up until now he has, even when he is lying quietly in my lap, stared at me nonstop--I mean trying to make eye contact.  When I do look him in the eyes he puts his ears back.  I mean he sits and gazes at me nonstop (I'll attach a picture).  In this picture he was rolling and rubbing all over me, but wanted to stare me in the eyes the entire time.  I don't understand his constant eye contact.  Is he telling me I like this because I'm purring and rubbing all over you, but I don't trust you yet??

Wurp has always made eye contact with me, especially when I was talking to him (he's nearly completely deaf now and we do hand signals well).  But Wurp is more the relaxed, slow blink, I love you kind of eye contact.  Shortstack does the "crazy uncle" look at me!  Even when I'm holding him and he is head butting my face, he's trying to stare me in the eyes.  I'm confused

Shortstack's eye contact makes a lot of sense. When cats are scared, they instinctively go wide-eyed so they can keep an eye out for any possible danger. Shortstack is watching you because he's worried something about you is a threat. He's rubbing all over you because he has a very affectionate personality and just doesn't like to go too long without getting pets and cuddles! But he's not ready to put his guard down just yet. It's also possible that he's associating you with the sound of the cat he thought was threatening his territory, and his aggressive male instincts are trying to scare this other cat away by staring it down. But since there's not actually another cat around, your eyes are the placeholder.

Cats are pretty smart and generally understand that we are different species and communicate with our eyes differently than cats do with each other. Many cats, especially those that have been well socialized with humans from a young age, are perfectly fine with direct eye contact from people. And former ferals can learn that eye contact is a good thing, but when they feel unsure about their environment they will fall back into more reflexive, instinctive reactions.

 

[lykakitty]

Fear-based aggression is very common, and can be redirected like any aggression. But don't worry, your paranoia and his reactions are all normal. You both scared each other and it will take a little bit to recover from that. As long as you continue being careful and gentle around him so he knows you're still safe he'll get more comfortable and less growly, and you'll get more comfortable around him as he does.

 

[hbunny]

Thank you all.  I just feel sometimes adrift out here trying to interpret what they are trying to tell me.  Shortstack was feral, I mean full-out feral when he first showed up at my house around the early summer of 2014.  I think when he showed up, he had been run away from his feral colony (I know where it is, a road over from me, we call it the cathouse!) because he hit puberty.  I don't think he had ever been near a human, much less touched by one.  I gained his confidence very, very slowly, but mainly because of his food drive.  He is a foodie in every sense of the word.  I wasn't planning on taking him in, because I feed a lot of what I call "transients", and just treated him like another one of them until he showed interest in becoming friends.  He got to where he would get in my lap when I was sitting on the porch, etc., last summer.  He had a running buddy, I think he thought he was his kitten but he was the offspring of one of our other transients, and they were always together.  I found that kitten a home when he was about 6 months old (a life of luxury, all-indoor home).  After we gave away his buddy, he camped out on our step for weeks.  He got much closer to us after that.  Then he showed up the first week of February with a humongous abscess and all torn up from a fight, so, the rest is history.  Off to the vet we went, and into the house he came.  AND into a house with a territorial older guy who wants to beat his butt for nothing, and Shortstack, coming from a colony, is very social with other cats--at least those transients I've seen.  He was always bringing new ones up to eat, and they would head rub, and lay together on the porch, then go off together.

I was really hoping he would trust in me enough in his new setting to help establish a bond.  But he is such a big scaredy-cat.  We saw that outdoors.  Even though he is a huge beast, he was afraid of his shadow and would let smaller toms bully him.  Everything about the indoors scares him, except of course food.  He is comfortable in the kitchen, but part of that is we let him inside to eat all winter then put him back out when he finished.  We would put up two baby gates to separate Wurp off.  Then Wurp learned to climb it like a marine over an obstacle, so that went out the window.

Here's what I've come away from this with--no direct eye contact, no sudden movements, keep loud noises to a minimum, be reassuring.  I'm going to do my best, but I'm a squealer when he grabs my foot/ankle, mainly because it hurts!