Hare Today - Diluting Mixes High in Bone

krismouse

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Hi all,

New to the site. So, yes, hello! I have a 15 week old American Curl (as yet unnamed, I call him Goose because I suck at naming, I may post a separate thread with photo and to help get votes on the name ideas I have). He's on a mix of raw (loves Radcat turkey, doesn't mind Primal turkey or chicken & salmon), various grain free canned and a bit of Orijen kibble during the day to make sure he has all the calories he wants.

Lucky me, he seems to prefer raw food - canned he will eat the first serving of but rejects anything refrigerated (even once I warm it up) unless I take away all kibble and he's quite hungry. I'm slowly decreasing the kibble I put down (we are off of free fed and now giving 1/4-1/3 cup per day) and will continue to do so, but may feed some canned. We'll see.

I've made up a shopping cart at Hare Today to try a variety of ground mixes (with the Alnutrin because I'm too lazy to mix my own supplements at this point). However, I noticed how high the bone content is in many of the mixes. I've been seeing 10% as the goal. I read some threads on here suggesting adding in boneless meats and organs to reduce that. So, being the nerd I am, I built a spreadsheet to check the quantities required for proper bone content. I wanted to share this both so you guys could tell me if it makes sense (I see some people commenting they only add maybe a pound or so of boneless into 5 lb mixes which have 27% bone - which by my math gets you nowhere near 10% of total). Also, in case this is useful to anyone else who is considering trying out Hare Today.


I was going to order 5lb mixes of some things, but it worked out that 2lb was generally easier to modify with more reasonable amounts of organ or meat. I will be rotation feeding, so I did not try to get completely perfectly balanced at every meal. The smaller portions are probably better for figuring out what my kitten will and won't eat.

Please let me know if you have any suggested modifications.
 

harrylime

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Do we know how Hare-Today came up with this figure? "Tearing down" a single 1lb chub several times? Tearing down 100lbs at once? Just curious as to how accurate this is.
 

mschauer

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Do we know how Hare-Today came up with this figure? "Tearing down" a single 1lb chub several times? Tearing down 100lbs at once? Just curious as to how accurate this is.
I'm not clear on what you are asking here. What is the "this figure" you are referring to? Do you mean how do they come up with the meat, bone, organ percentages they post? If so, I've wondered about that also and about how accurate they are.
 
That's very helpful, but I need clarification on something.

Say for example I want exactly (or close enough to) 10lbs of the final food product, due to space limitations in my freezer, etc... 

Should I just keep messing with the calculator until my original input number ("what you have") combined with the "what you need to add" figures add up to 10lbs?
Yes. There is no way to specify the quantity you want to end up with and have the calculator figure out the rest.
 
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harrylime

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I'm not clear on what you are asking here. What is the "this figure" you are referring to? Do you mean how do they come up with the meat, bone, organ percentages they post? If so, I've wondered about that also and about how accurate they are.
Yes, exactly what I mean. I was curious about the sample size and how much trust we can put into this number. 

I mean I guess if this is the ratio that Hare-Today has always been, then my girl has been getting way more than 10% bone for the last two years, and she's doing just fine so I guess it doesn't matter THAT much.
 

monkeymom

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@HarryLime

I know what you mean. Before I started using the calculator, I was definitely not adding enough boneless meat to my grinds. It didn't help that the product I was getting didn't have a nutrient analysis, so I was flying blind. I estimate my cats were getting around 15% bone versus the recommended 10%. They seemed to be okay with that amount, but it does seem easier for my girl now, BM-wise.

I think that just as in humans, there is a wide range of variation for what a certain individual can tolerate. Some cats may have a tighter range due to a medical condition or other reasons, and some can tolerate a fairly wide range of bone content. It may not be ideal long term to feed a higher proportion of bone, since the increased calcium amounts could cause some health issues.

After using the calculator and adjusting accordingly (with known HT values) they also seem to be doing fine.
 

mschauer

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I mean I guess if this is the ratio that Hare-Today has always been, then my girl has been getting way more than 10% bone for the last two years, and she's doing just fine so I guess it doesn't matter THAT much.
A couple of things to consider:

The higher the bone content the greater the risk of constipation. As monkeymom said, some cats are able to tolerate more bone in their diets than other cats. Bowel motility frequently declines with age however. A kitty that can handle > 10% bone today may not be able to at some time down the road.

Bone contributes very important nutrients but there are many more important nutrients that bone cannot provide. If your kitty fills up on bone heavy food she likely is not getting enough of the nutrients bone doesn't provide. The affects of a slight but constant nutrient deficiency may not be obvious. Optimal long term health depends in part on good lifetime nutrition.
 
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