Guys really suck -rant, and advice please?

[margecat]

I understand your plight, but I would NOT tell your friend what C said to you. In fact, he may be using you for that, not having enough courage to tell her himself. What you can do is tell C that he must have a talk with your friend. Yes, that will hurt, but not as much as finding out he may be hurting in other ways, or the hurt that will be caused from you telling her. Please don't take this the wrong way (as I can tell you are a very good, kind friend), but this their business to sort out, not yours. I know you want to protect your friend, but it's their relationship, and they have to do what's right.

I know this sounds brutal, but I'm speaking from experience: if a guy is not doing what you want, or what means a lot to you, he's not likely to change. We all deserve to find a mate who does believe in what we believe in, does the things that are important to us, etc. We need to move on, painful though it is, and find that happiness with someone who truly loves and appreciates us. Don't accept 2nd-best in a mate.

 

[cococat]

You are a caring friend.
That guy obviously sucks. But not all do.
I would force him to fess up to her and keep him accountable, since he has no backbone or confidence himself.

 

[MoochNNoodles]

Originally Posted by Ducman69

As a guy, how do you "lead someone on"? There are plenty of women that just want a boyfriend or even just casual hookups so they have their freedom, so if he never had a conversation with her about getting married and having kids and all that jazz (which it sounds like he probably didn't) and just enjoys their time together and treats her well, that hardly seems like being misleading IMO.

Its also much easier to answer a directed question coming from her about the future than it is for him to bring it up out of the blue from his side without it sounding like hurtful rejection telling her out of the blue that he likes her but has no plans on spending their whole future together.

By NOT telling her the truth he is leading her on! Sometimes the right thing to do is in no way shape or form easy! It would have been much easier if he'd been straight forward with her a long time ago; back when he realized they were thinking in opposite directions. But he was enjoying the relationship back then and didn't want to rock the boat so to speak.

Originally Posted by Carolina

IMHO it is not about what is easier, it is about what is right. If he was man enough, he would just say it. But he isn't... he is taking the immature, easiest, most convenient path and using this as an excuse to just stay in the situation. Well, man up and say it. It is going to hurt a quite a bit for a while, but it will pass... But if he doesn't (only for his own benefit IMHO) this will drag on hurting for much longer, ties will get tighter, and the pain in the end will be much worst.

Exactly!

And apparently many people will disagree; but I do not believe people are prone to infidelity the way it's coming across here. People make choices. I think as a culture we have grown far to accustomed to making the easier choice; what is most comfortable. Sticking through relationships when it is hard is not easy. I've been married for 7 years and we've had our rough times. But infidelity is not an option. It doesn't mean you don't notice when another person is attractive. You chose to stay faithful to the one you are committed to. Or you choose to cheat or end it. Infidelity is probably about the most selfish, immature act any person -man or woman- can commit. I've seen relationships go through it; ones where children were involved. There is something to be had for those old time values many seem to have thrown in the trash decades ago. It's sad that people expect cheating. I am not saying I have a perfect relationship myself. I'm saying we set standards and we constantly work to maintain them. When it's hard; we know the right people to ask for help. And the hard times do get better! I know they will come again; but my marriage and my family are worth fighting for.

 

[aprilyim]

I'm sorry to hear you are in the middle. It's a terrible place to be and it has backfired on me when relationships have hit the fan. (Both parties end up crawling back and apologizing after their tempers cool down.)

It's great that you want to be a good friend to both. That's why they BOTH trust you to vent at you and to confide in you. But like many have already said... don't let them take advantage of you as some sort of messenger.

It's not up to you to mediate them or to keep them from falling apart.

From what you've written...

Your girl friend is going to have to realize that he doesn't feel the same about her and just come to terms with it.

Your guy friend is going to have to admit to himself first that he doesn't feel the same way or maybe he's just afraid to admit that he likes her more than he says. He obviously enjoys her company enough to stay in this relationship.

Also, she is making it easy for him. She is amenable to his schedule. If it upsets her that she is always sacrificing time for him, she has no one to blame but herself. He probably never asked her to make these sacrifices, and yet doesn't mind that she does. After all, it's flattering that this lovely lady is making so much time to be with him and he knows how crazy she is about him too.

It's easy to blame the seemingly clueless guy but it takes two to tango. They need to figure this out on their own and they need to decide if this relationship is worth it for the both of them.

And if you still want to be friends with both of them afterwards, of course that is up to you. Being loyal to one does not mean you can't be loyal to the other!

 

[ducman69]

Originally Posted by MoochNNoodles

By NOT telling her the truth he is leading her on!

What I still find confusing though is how that responsibility is on him, when she is the one that apparently wants change. Not trying to be rude, just to put a male perspective on this.

If I understand correctly, the status quo is that they are merely two young people dating. She wants to change the status of that relationship and change him, that should put the burden of direct communication on her, not him. If she wants to take things to the next level, say so directly, if not, I don't see how one can complain that he's just treating her like another girlfriend like the six or seven he's had before her.

I don't know the individuals, but from my limited experience there are some that fall heads over heels, start becoming really clingy which is a turnoff to most especially at that age (where pursuit>caught>pursued), pretend they are making all these sacrifices and investments for their partner that were never asked for, and start making all these assumptions about the future on their own without any catalyst and start trying to move in and change things about you. Most college guys know to watch out for those just there to get their MRS degree, so can't blame us for being a bit weary of that and wanting to enjoy some youthful freedom.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by MoochNNoodles

And apparently many people will disagree; but I do not believe people are prone to infidelity the way it's coming across here. People make choices. I think as a culture we have grown far to accustomed to making the easier choice; what is most comfortable. Sticking through relationships when it is hard is not easy. I've been married for 7 years and we've had our rough times. But infidelity is not an option. It doesn't mean you don't notice when another person is attractive. You chose to stay faithful to the one you are committed to. Or you choose to cheat or end it. Infidelity is probably about the most selfish, immature act any person -man or woman- can commit. I've seen relationships go through it; ones where children were involved. There is something to be had for those old time values many seem to have thrown in the trash decades ago. It's sad that people expect cheating. I am not saying I have a perfect relationship myself. I'm saying we set standards and we constantly work to maintain them. When it's hard; we know the right people to ask for help. And the hard times do get better! I know they will come again; but my marriage and my family are worth fighting for.

Please don't take me wrong... Being prone to doesn't mean it is going to happen. You can still make a choice. What I wanted to point out on my post is that woman have the as much desire as men do, and are as inclined to infidelity as men are. We are all moved by hormones, we all have eyes... The thing is, there has been this misconception out there that men are more so "prone" to infidelity than women, and IMHO, often times that is taken as an excuse to act upon it.
We all do have free will though. We all can make a choice, man or women, we all are perfectly capable of making a choice... but the desires are still there, for both of us.

 

[ut0pia]

Originally Posted by Ducman69

I don't know the individuals, but from my limited experience there are some that fall heads over heels, start becoming really clingy which is a turnoff to most especially at that age (where pursuit>caught>pursued), pretend they are making all these sacrifices and investments for their partner that were never asked for, and start making all these assumptions about the future on their own without any catalyst and start trying to move in and change things about you. Most college guys know to watch out for those just there to get their MRS degree, so can't blame us for being a bit weary of that and wanting to enjoy some youthful freedom.

You're right, but that's the thing, what I don't get is-her behavior is a turn off for him, and he is uncomfortable that she expects things from him and tries to change him, yet he won't tell her that he wants to slow things down if not end them, our of fear of disappointing her

I mean, that's just dumb and unfair to her, because he is essentially telling her that he appreciates all the things she is doing and encourages her behavior even further....

Originally Posted by Carolina

Please don't take me wrong... Being prone to doesn't mean it is going to happen. You can still make a choice. What I wanted to point out on my post is that woman have the as much desire as men do, and are as inclined to infidelity as men are. We are all moved by hormones, we all have eyes... The thing is, there has been this misconception out there that men are more so "prone" to infidelity than women, and IMHO, often times that is taken as an excuse to act upon it.
We all do have free will though. We all can make a choice, man or women, we all are perfectly capable of making a choice... but the desires are still there, for both of us.

I really hate it when I hear that guys are more likely to cheat than women. But, at the same time I think if someone is at a point where they can't overcome their desire to be with other people, then whatever relationship they're in is already over. If you have to struggle to remain faithful, I think you're probably with the wrong person. I dunno, maybe I'm naive like that. But, I've had trouble staying faithful before, and I know for sure it was because I wasn't with the right person. And, what I don't get is why people go through all this therapy sometimes in order to make their marriage work, when it's so much easier and probably healthier to end it.