Grooming and age concerns

[ishtar163]

We picked up our second pregnant foster cat a little over a week ago. Rachel could be due any time, as we don't know her history. She is extremely gravid, though, and the kittens are easily felt and seen moving and kicking.

Due to the appearance of her nipples, it is quite clear she's had at least one litter in the past. Still, we don't know how old she is. Her teeth seem a bit worn, though, and a couple are quite pogmented. I'm concerned that she may be relatively old. What implications could that have on her ability to birth and care for her litter? Is it more likely that there will be anomalies or defects in the babies with her being older, as in humans? I want to be prepared.

My other question involves her grooming habits. The last couple of days they've really fallen to the wayside, specifically her rear feet and her backside. Is this indicative of a health problem, or is it more likely due to her enormous size? She is also laying down about 90% of the day, only getting up if she must, and doesn't jump up on the bed anymore, either. Should I help her out? She's incredibly cuddly and laid back, so I'm sure she would at least tolerate me cleaning her. I just don't want to interfere if it's unwarranted. I have never had a cat slack off on grooming, though....even my 23-year-old arthritic baby boy grooms himself meticulously!

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, as I want to give Rachel the best I can!

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• ishtar163
• Apr 2, 2015

 

[mservant]

I hope things are going OK since you posted.  Rachel does look big and with any luck she does not have much longer to wait before her kittens arrive.  I really don't know if age has any additional risks for kittens of the moma cat but very young mothers may find having kittens a big strain on their bodies and also not know what to do.  Hoping Rachel having more experience will be a help for you and for her.  Perhaps @StefanZ  or @catwoman707  will know more.  

For the grooming her large belly will almost certainly make grooming difficult as she will not be able to bend and reach her back legs and rear like she usually would.  If she is happy to be touched she may appreciate some gentle grooming help from you with a soft brush, warm damp cloth, and hands to sooth her and keep her fur soft and clean.

 

[catwoman707]

I agree, it's no longer comfortable to bend herself in half to clean her butt or hind feet/legs.

Surely she would appreciate some help in that department

She doesn't look like an old cat to me. I clicked on her pic and mostly look at her eyes and coat, as by the time cats are seniors these change.

Basically when a cat has had 4 litters, any future litters have a much greater risk of problems, due to her body being depleted of nutrition, her reserves are all used up.

This doesn't mean it will happen either, just the percent for risk/abnormalities/premature/stillborns goes up.

She looks nice and round, likely due very soon.

 

[StefanZ]

I agree with Catwomans answer.

To fill up re the self question of older cat moms.

As far as I understand, there is no such problems as higher risks for children with Downs syndrom, alike it may happen with human moms.

The dangers are sooner on the mom.

An older first times cat moms does has increased risks, but it is because her joints arent any longer fully flexible.   So this question is not uncommon for breeders. If they DO have a nice female with every papers and certifikates and such, and suddenly decide that now they would want to have a litter or two after their pedigreed beauty.

So the rule of thumb is 5 years for the first, as maximum.   Although I had heard about a 8 year cat mom whom was first time, succesfully and without big problems.   I suppose this female had some excellent nice bloodlines and genetic properties they wanted to save.   Because  it was sheer fooliness to try.

Sure, if she is in very good condition, healthy, agile etc the risks are not THAT great....   Also, mind you, breeders do have usually cooperation with good veterinaries experienced in obstetrics, and also have full insurancies on their cats.  So an emergency cesarean isnt  no catastrophe for them.  Nor phoning for advice.   

For repetitive moms.  Cats can get kittens even into quite high age.  If they are in good condition, well nutrition, repetitive moms...  There doesnt need to be problems, although no serious breeder uses them any longer, queens are usually retired at 5-7 years of age.   One of my breeding friends talked much she was thinking on her 12 years female and had thoughs on trying once again, BUT she was as said, in excellent condition, very agile and healthy, and they had an excellent vet too.   Yet, as she after all, didnt took this extra litter on her, she apparently abstained.  Surely wise.

But cats whom arent in such good care.  Unspayed home girls whom are kept at home, and happen to get pregnant at an older age...  Not good, its just to ask for troubles at the delivery... The risks are big.

Free living cats, and many a typical farm cat,  gets often pregnant.  Its not any once a year alike with serious breeders minding their cats whom are their family girls.

Nay, free living cats gets pregnant often twice a year, or even more often. They do have a so so food, and with age, got weaker and weaker.

And its there the situation @catwoman707 did mentioned.  As the mom gets physically wearn down, the nutrition reserves smaller and smaller, thus the kittens gets less and less...  .

The risks increases for the kittens and for the mom.

The only compensation is the mom is very experienced, and knows all the ropes and the moves.

And our rescuers are often in exactly this postition.   More or less emaciated moms, with the risks this gives for mom and children.

They be older or younger.

ps.  This is my 10.007 th post.   I missed to mark the 10.000th, so it will be this to mark.  

 

[ishtar163]

Thank you all for the great advice/information! I love that I learn something every time I sign on here!

At any rate, we are still waiting on kittens, but I'm sure it's harder on Rachel than the rest of the family, as she's so huge now she must be miserable. I have been cleaning her hard-to-reach places with a warm washcloth, and trimmed off hair where some litter was stuck on.

I am hoping the age thing won't be a problem now...your reassurance is helping me to not worry. While I don't know how many litters she may have had, I'm thinking she's probably only about 4 or 5. I thought that was old because I only really see people talking about young mamas and the concerns involved with that. I do have a cat who is 23, and she is clearly nowhere near that old, lol.

Also, she shouldn't be nutritionally deficient at this point. While I don't know how her life was at the start of her pregnancy, I feed all my pets and fosters very well. She is getting a high protein natural food that is corn, wheat, and soy free, as well as grain free canned food with no carrageenan, and diatomaceous earth for intestinal health. I have high calorie paste and kmr to add to her food when she's nursing....should I be adding it now? I do know that she's eating better than she was before because the litter box smell was awful till she'd been eating at my house for a few days. It's always like that with the fosters, though, because they're usually on very cheap food before they get here. I worry about Rachel's kittens just because she was already quite pregnant when she got here, so any nutrient deficiency could have already done damage beforehand.

Thank you again, and I would always love to hear any other information you have. I will update when she gives birth or if i have more concerns. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[StefanZ]

. I have high calorie paste and kmr to add to her food when she's nursing....should I be adding it now?

With such good foods its probably not necessary.  (you mentioned high protein - I suppose its high fat too?).

Another moment when they may need extra supplements, not least of calcium, is later on when the kittens are on verge to be weaned.  Especially if the litter is big.

At that moment, they are big, and eats a LOT of milk.  At this moment she will need extra calcium source.  Goat milk, youghur, cheese.  Egg shells crushed into fine powder, or anoghr source of highh calcium...

 

[ishtar163]

Thank you so much! The food is relatively high fat, yes. I buy food without fillers at all, so they are mostly protein and fat. For the calcium supplements, I can very easily obtain all of those things, thankfully! For the yogurt, obviously it would be plain, but is Greek yogurt ok or just regular? Thanks again!

 

[StefanZ]

! For the yogurt, obviously it would be plain, but is Greek yogurt ok or just regular? Thanks again!

Greek or Turkish (which are similiar) are splendid.  They are also higher in fat than common regular yoghurt, and here its a big advantage.

Regular youghurt is better in ONE instance, if it has lactobacillus and bifidus bacterias addes - some has it, its very useful as a natural probiotic.

Youghurt culture with its mild culture, (often with some lactobacillus added), is too used as a probiotic, but less potent.

 

[ishtar163]

That's great...I almost always have some plain Greek yogurt in the house. I buy the brand Fage, which actually has both of the bacterias you mentioned. Is it wise to be giving that to the cats anyway? I take probiotics, so maybe I should be giving them to the fur babies as well? The dry cat food that I use does have some probiotics and prebiotics in it, but I have no idea if it's a reasonable amount for a cat.

 

[ishtar163]

Rachel is finally in labor! She started nesting yesterday, digging around in her box when she usually just naps in it. She also barely ate anything yesterday or today. Now she is grooming a lot, breathing heavy and fast, and panting every few minutes. Hoping to see some sweet, healthy babies soon!

 

[mservant]

Oooh, all fingers and toes crossed all goes smoothly and the labour is not too long or big gaps between kittens.  Will be waiting to hear how everything goes and that all are well.  

    Hope Rachel is happy to have you around and that you can keep her fairly comfortable.

 

[ishtar163]

Can cats have false alarms for labor? She was panting and breathing heavily for over an hour, then she took a nap and went back to acting normal. She still hasn't eaten today, but she's just hanging out and cuddling on my lap like nothing happened. I'm confused!

 

[StefanZ]

Can cats have false alarms for labor? She was panting and breathing heavily for over an hour, then she took a nap and went back to acting normal. She still hasn't eaten today, but she's just hanging out and cuddling on my lap like nothing happened. I'm confused!

Lets call it for precontractions.   She can also have taken a pause.

As long as she is fine, no problems, you dont need to panic, and afford to wait and see.

Its long fruitless labors we dont want to see.

Good luck!

 

[ishtar163]

There's babies!!!!

Rachel seemed to alternate between restless and cuddly all night, so I finally went to my room and went to sleep around 2am. Then, I woke up at 6:30 to little squeaks! She has had 5 kittens! They all weigh between 105 and 127 grams, and all seem to be doing well. I'm not sure if she still has more in there or was just upset that I was removing them to get weights, so I will watch her. My biggest problem is telling them apart so I can monitor their weights! There's one black and white, 2 all white, and 2 all black. I saw something about putting nail polish on them, but wouldn't that be dangerous if it got ingested? I also don't want to tie anything around them and risk hurting them.

Anyway, we are excited to welcome some beautiful healthy kittens! Rachel is being a great mom, although she has eaten 5 placentas since I was asleep, so hopefully she'll be ok. I will post pictures as soon as she lets me change out the bedding! [emoji]128512[/emoji]

 

[ishtar163]

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• ishtar163
• Apr 9, 2015

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• ishtar163
• Apr 9, 2015

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• ishtar163
• Apr 9, 2015

 

[ishtar163]

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• ishtar163
• Apr 9, 2015

Rachel nursing her new babies [emoji]128512[/emoji]

 

[Sarthur2]

Congratulations!! The kittens look very healthy. Thank you for sharing pictures.

 

[StefanZ]

There's babies!!!!

Rachel seemed to alternate between restless and cuddly all night, so I finally went to my room and went to sleep around 2am. Then, I woke up at 6:30 to little squeaks! She has had 5 kittens! They all weigh between 105 and 127 grams, and all seem to be doing well. I'm not sure if she still has more in there or was just upset that I was removing them to get weights, so I will watch her. My biggest problem is telling them apart so I can monitor their weights! There's one black and white, 2 all white, and 2 all black. I saw something about putting nail polish on them, but wouldn't that be dangerous if it got ingested? I also don't want to tie anything around them and risk hurting them.

Anyway, we are excited to welcome some beautiful healthy kittens! Rachel is being a great mom, although she has eaten 5 placentas since I was asleep, so hopefully she'll be ok. I will post pictures as soon as she lets me change out the bedding! [emoji]128512[/emoji]

Splendid!  Well done!  Beaming!   Nail polish should be fine, as long its no brand known to be poisoning.   I suppose they usually arent, quite a few people use to suckle on their fingers if a little nervous or deeply thinking...  Color the back paw nails, so it will be the adult one whom gets it,  IF.  not the weak and innocuent kitten...

I suspect the white ones will turn into points.  It may be visibe perhaps in a week time.

Mom has white on her, so she could give them all this white.  But it would be more probable she gave them her own pattern, which is fairly strong.

So I think she is a carrier of the point gene.  Dad could be hmi too a carrier, or he is a point.  I dont know at this moment.

Good luck!

 

[mservant]

    Congratulations!   What a relief that all appears well and mom is doing an excellent job feeding and cleaning and keeping them cozy.   Thank you for posting all these photos, they do look to be a good size and some very long! Such a cute little face you captured there with the white kitten at top of the kitten pile in the last photo of the kittens on their own without Rachel.    

 

[ishtar163]

Thank you all! I have been busy all day just staring at the cuteness! Rachel is taking good care of her babies, and is eating a lot! Unfortunately, she does have really bad diarrhea, probably from all the afterbirths she ate. She also has been panting today....is that normal? I am worried that maybe she retained a placenta or something because I didn't get to the birth until right after the last one was born...or maybe there's another baby in there? Her tummy feels mostly soft, but lumpy....I would think she's done but my mind is going overboard. Maybe the panting could be after pains? I know I've had four children and those can be pretty brutal... She is mostly acting normal otherwise, eating well and taking small breaks from her nest when all the babies are asleep. She feeds and cleans them well, and runs back to them as soon as one makes a squeak. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

Other than that, everyone is doing great! All the kittens are nursing well and gained a large amount of weight since yesterday! I'm so excited to watch them grow!

@stefanz, I think it would be so cute if the white babies ended up with points! Cat color genetics are just fascinating to me, but I don't know a whole lot yet! One of them is a little more buff colored, and one is more pure white...is that probably going to change?