giving up (at least for now- I think)

[beesto]

I feel disheartened to say I'm slowly giving up on raw. I've been trying frankenprey for a few weeks and commercial raw for a couple of weeks before that.   My cats won't eat bone, they only seem to like chicken thigh meat (especially the 1 year old- the kitten is a lot more agreeable but getting more picky- I think from all the toppers taking away from the pure raw he at first gobbled up.  The toppers would be added to entice the 1 year old but the kitten always went in for more and I think got spoiled by toppers.

I'm worried about messing them up by not giving them a variety of proteins, or any bone (except for the occasional commercial I would still give) and one won't eat liver, I haven't even tried a 2nd secreting organ. They sort of have eaten the turkey thigh- but man it's such a struggle to do all this.  And with all the work, and the failed attempts, I'm feeling like it's not working out.  If I wasn't so busy I probably wouldn't give up so easily. I keep adding toppers of wet or treats and they like it at first but now even with toppers they're not that interested.  

Also, twice there has been these strange very pale like poops with a lot of hair in them (is that a hair ball? I've never had cats before but the hairball I thought I saw in the past looked more like a little barf with hair and not a poop shape.. sorry if this a dumb question)  They are the shape of a skinny poop and look almost like the consistency of the raw commercial- very smushy- and they're longish and maybe by coincidence I found them by their food.  And they always poop in the litter box.  Anyhow, I'm worried that the combo of wet and raw is not working either. I just don't know.

If I do try to keep this up can I do wet and a little raw until I get up the gumption to go for it  fully again?  Maybe if I just went with chicken thighs/liver/dried liver again and stopped the toppers I would feel bettter and more successful.  But for how long before I'm risking the nutrition balance they need.  I almost got a calcium supplement but I wasn't sure if you could just sprinkle that on the frankenprey or if that only worked with ground.

Sorry for the negativity about such a positive way to feed your cats.

Thank you for ideas and advice.

Bonnie

 

[mschauer]

I think maybe you tried to do too much too quickly. If they don't take to frankenprey fairly quickly then you can feed a complete and balanced commerical raw and work up to frankenprey over time.

As for protein variety, that is purely a hypothetical need. There is no evidence that feeding only a single protein is in any way less beneficial than feeding a variety. Proteins will have different nutrient profiles but the question is: Does that matter? I know of no evidence that it does. 

I feed a variety of proteins primarily to keep them from getting either bored with a single protein or getting so that they will only ever eat that protein.

If I do try to keep this up can I do wet and a little raw until I get up the gumption to go for it  fully again?  Maybe if I just went with chicken thighs/liver/dried liver again and stopped the toppers I would feel bettter and more successful.  But for how long before I'm risking the nutrition balance they need.  I almost got a calcium supplement but I wasn't sure if you could just sprinkle that on the frankenprey or if that only worked with ground.

Sure, you can feed canned wet and some raw. Commerical processed pet foods are generally assumed to contain more than the minimum required nutrients and so we assume we can feed a little nutritionally unbalanced raw along with them and they will make up for any nutrients lacking in the raw. Note that there are assumptions involved with this. As for how long it would be safe to feed like this it isn't possible to say. As long as the raw makes up a small portion of the total diet and the remainder of the diet is commercial processed foods it would likely be OK for some time. Exactly how long is, as I said, it is not possible to say.

 

[lisamarie12]

 
I feel disheartened to say I'm slowly giving up on raw.

Hey there Bonnie,

Don't be so hard on yourself, this is an entirely new way of feeding for you and your cats and sometimes it can take a while - months even, to figure out what works best for your kitties as well as your time. If anything, give yourself a pat on the back for being open-minded enough to give raw a try.

Okay - now take a deep breath and consider starting anew.  You mentioned you started the cats on commercial raw, I do remember some of your earlier posts.  How did they like commercial raw? Did you try freeze dried? Maybe you could do that for awhile. I do a combo of freeze dried raw, occasionally some frozen commercial raw and about 25% canned.

I've not had a problem using raw and canned. I would stick with canned food that doesn't contain any gums, however, like Tiki Cat (some varieties are gum free, or Nature's Variety). What sort of toppers are you using, are you referring to a freeze dried meat toppers - Pure Bites, Bravo, etc.?

I'm sure others will have ideas as well for you. Chin up dearie.

 

[beesto]

Thank you so much mshauer and lisamarie12!!  I do feel a lot better.  I wrote in a moment of weakness!  I will keep at it and take it more easy on myself and the learning curve.  Both of you gave me very good advice!!!!  

The treats I am currently using are Halo's liv-a-littles.  Good?  Should I vary the toppers?  Recommendations?

I will keep at it.  I will let you know how it's going.  :-)

 

[lisamarie12]

 
Thank you so much mshauer and lisamarie12!!  I do feel a lot better.  I wrote in a moment of weakness!  I will keep at it and take it more easy on myself and the learning curve.  Both of you gave me very good advice!!!!  

The treats I am currently using are Halo's liv-a-littles.  Good?  Should I vary the toppers?  Recommendations?

I will keep at it.  I will let you know how it's going.  :-)

Aw great - that's the spirit!

Sure, Liv-a-Littles is fine, it's just freeze dried meat only. Sometimes when people say "toppers" I'm not sure if they are referring to treats with other ingredients.  Bravo makes freeze dried turkey breast treats and if you like rabbit, there is Hare of the Cat rabbit jerky treats.

And it's not like you are giving up on frankenprey either, just maybe putting it on hold for a bit while you make other adjustments.  It'll work out.  

 

[ldg]

beesto I am sooooo sorry ( ) but I had to laugh as I read your post. Not at your frustration, but at the flood of memories! There were four of us trying to transition our cats at roughly the same time: Carolina, mrsgreenjeans, Feralvr and me. Carolina had a kibble addict that took over a month to even lick a topper off a pea-sized blob of raw and she was having nightmares about bloody raw meat; Feralvr's Perla was picking raw bits out of the canned mix and flinging them on the wall; mrsgreenjeans was was rolling raw into pea-sized balls and coating them in crushed toppers, ready to pull her hair out in frustration; and it was taking me 1.5 hours or so each meal to get my cats to eat. :lol3: I can look back and laugh! We joked a lot about all of the issues and craziness in our threads. BUT we weren't alone - yet we all went through that I WANT TO GIVE UP frustration, doubt, etc. And in the end, I think mrsgreenjeans and Feralvr feed a mix of canned and raw now.

I finally got to a point - though it took me longer than you - where I realized it was just nuts to stress myself and my cats like that! I decided not to sweat it. I backed up, slowed down, and the whole family was happier for it. And my advice to people now is simple. Go at your cats' pace. It isn't a race, it is a journey. :rub:

So as you have, take a deep breath, take a few steps back, and just take it day-by-day!

As to specific questions. The light colored stool. Feeding poultry = light yellow-colored stool. Feeding red meat = dark stool. Feeding both the same meal or day = marbled stool. Very light but white-ish (or gray/white and very dry/crumbly) stool means too much bone or calcium. And yes, cats are supposed to pass hair in stool. With bulky stools we don't see it so clearly. But because there is so little waste product with raw, hair in stool is evident. It is essentially hair in a poop crust! That is how it is supposed to be, and it means everything is working properly! We have pictures up in a couple of threads from 2012 I think. A search of "hair crust stool" (or fur? or poop?) probably finds the threads (if you're so inclined, LOL).

To this day, over three years later, I have to use toppers on the meals of two of my cats. I have four of 10 that will chomp bone, so I don't feed primarily PMR. Mine prefer chunks, so I feed a modified PMR, alternating between MCHA and eggshell to balance the calcium component. There is no right or wrong re: feeding styles. There is what works for you and your kitties. :heart2:

 

[beesto]

Thank you LDG, that's great to hear that it's a process of patience and perseverance for so many!  Those stories were so funny- I guess I have it easy.  I am still sticking to it but with a more patient attitude.  It's fun watching what they will eat!  Now my younger kitten is eating chicken neck.  Those little victories are so great!

 

[lisahe]

 
Don't be so hard on yourself, this is an entirely new way of feeding for you and your cats and sometimes it can take a while - months even, to figure out what works best for your kitties as well as your time. If anything, give yourself a pat on the back for being open-minded enough to give raw a try.

Okay - now take a deep breath and consider starting anew.  You mentioned you started the cats on commercial raw, I do remember some of your earlier posts.  How did they like commercial raw? Did you try freeze dried? Maybe you could do that for awhile. I do a combo of freeze dried raw, occasionally some frozen commercial raw and about 25% canned.

I agree with the other posts, Bonnie! Please don't feel like you've failed! It can take time to switch cats to any kind of new food and raw food offers a lot of choices that can be pretty daunting for the humans. I've come to the realization that our cats' menu will always be a work in progress. And as much as I might like to make food for the cats, there are lots of reasons it's just not going to happen anytime soon.

I agree, too, with what the others wrote about feeding a combination of commercial raw and canned foods. That's how we've been feeding our cats for over a year, and it works out really well for people and cats. I think I started by feeding mostly canned with a small Rad Cat snack every day, then I added in Primal and Stella & Chewy's... now the cats get Primal (freeze-dried only, please) with a Stella & Chewy's garnish twice a day and Rad Cat (or Stella & Chewy's frozen) once a day, with a couple canned meals, too. The cats seem to thrive on it, seem to like it (fingers crossed that they'll continue to because they're rather fickle), and it's an easy diet for my husband to feed the cats when I'm traveling. (I only travel a few times a year but that's no small consideration.) We were lucky that they took to raw food immediately.

Now, about poop. Thank you to @LDG for the descriptions, which are great! (I'd always wondered about those marbled specimens!) Even on the blend of raw and canned, our cats' poops are sometimes skinny, hairy things, too. I have to admit they were a bit frightening at first!

Good luck!

 

[jessv]

Hi Beesto,

I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in the frustration wagon. Not that it helps with your specific issue but I'm sure there are dozens of people like us who want to do their best for their feline buddies and most of us are reading this forum as well as other website in search of the right answer. I've learned there is none, that it is a trial and error journey. 

In my case, I certainly don't want to quit (commercial) raw, I just started and know it is the right choice but I'm not patient enough with our cat's sensitive GI tract. He had no problem switching to it but I started with rabbit which he didn't know and wasn't fond of. I didn't want him to lose more weight nor to keep hand feeding him each meal so I tried to introduce turkey which he loved and helped with the rabbit that he now eats by himself but I guess I went to fast with the quantity per day and yesterday, he had soft stool again, twice. I swear, I almost cried, especially because the husband makes jokes like I'm in the quest of the perfect stool or that my checking each stool is borderline insanity. He loves our cat deeply and lets me do whatever I think is best but you know, I "worry too much". So I'm a bit lost and I'm not sure how to proceed but this forum and others' experiences as well as advice are quite reassuring to me (LDG's post made me laugh!). 

Yes, Ishi passes sausages of fur that are coated with some crust which i's a good sign, as a matter of fact, he hasnt vomited hairballs.

Best of luck with your cats and trials... and errors

 

[ldg]

Regarding soft stools, diarrhea or vomiting during introductions, yep, it just means you went too quickly with something. It clears up quickly IF you back up and slow down.

 

[lilymai]

Just a quick note, it could be furballs that you found :-) the word 'ball' in furball is a bit misleading as they tend to be sausage shaped and look an awful lot like a pale poop - my cat suffers terribly with them :-( As you are finding them near the food bowls, it is more likely to be furballs, especially if they are toilet trained :-)