Giardia Questions

[calicosrspecial]

I second what Stephanie mentions, if at all possible if you can get a PCR diarrhea panel just too see if there is anything else that would be helpful.

Diarrhea can be because of giardia but it also can be caused by something else. A PCR test at the appropriate time should be very helpful in letting us know if the giardia is gone and if there is something else going on.

I think you did a great job on cleaning etc. 

Did the kitten get all his medicine every day? Given your cleaning process it sounds like reinfection risk was pretty low. Now I don't know if Lysol kills giardia but the shampoo does. If the kitten ate all his medicine and given your cleaning it should have taken care of his giardia.

If the kitten does still have giardia I would consider asking your vet about Secnidazole. It is a one dose solution so compliance would be a lot easier. Stephen uses this and it works for him.

The panacur is a tough drug so maybe that is upsetting his stomach? Please ask your vet.

I think there could be a few things. One, he did not get all his panacur so it wasn't able to do its job. Two, he reinfected himself. Three, something else like coccidia or something else might be causing this diarrhea. In 14 days after his last treatment I would if at all possible get him a PCR diarrhea test to see what he might have, if it is still giardia then consider asking your vet about Secnidazole.

Given your cleaning habits etc it sounds to me (though I am no expert) that it is probably one or three. I don't know how he took his medicine but assuming he got it all then I am guessing it is three (something else is causing the diarrhea).

I am so sorry you and your boy are going through this. But you will get through this. If he still has giardia I would limit any toys etc to limit the risk of reinfection and keep him in the bathroom completely in order to limit any spread of cysts and to clean after every movement.

But if at all possible I would really think about getting that PCR test just to see if something else is going on.

Thank you so much for all you are doing for him, you are terrific!! 

 

[santisd]

He's now on his 3rd round of pancur. This time 10 days. He's also on Kocci free cause I'm getting super desperate and wanted something additional to the stupid panacur that's proven useless.

He's on day 6 of Kocci free (10 day treatment) and day 4 of panacur. His stools were almost fully formed until today.... More diarrhea... Not watery, just mucous and blood. I'd just so happened to let him play out of the bathroom when it happened so planning on keeping him in the bathroom the rest of the night and resanitizing the apartment in the morning.... I'm gonna be more strict now and keep him in the bathroom almost the entirety of the rest of the treatment (4 days Kocci and 6 days panacur). I'm unfortunately leaving him with my mom for the weekend as I'll be out of town, but I'll make sure to tell her not to let him out at all except when she's cleaning the bathroom and changing his litter. I already instructed her with the medicines and the cleaning regimen that I keep for his toys and bedding.

I was so optimistic when his stool started being formed and I feel like maybe I was just treating the symptoms without helping him get rid of giardia.... If this third treatment of panacur and Kocci free don't work... I might have to reconsider his adoption....I can't revolve my week accounting for some additional 8 hours of cleaning to no avail, to keep my pet in the bathroom at all times, and to be heart broken all the time about a parasite that's taking over my every thought during the day...

I felt like I was ready to give a pet a new happy home but maybe my friends were right in me not being ready... It seems like nothing I'm doing is helping the situation at all....

 

[molly92]

He's now on his 3rd round of pancur. This time 10 days. He's also on Kocci free cause I'm getting super desperate and wanted something additional to the stupid panacur that's proven useless.

He's on day 6 of Kocci free (10 day treatment) and day 4 of panacur. His stools were almost fully formed until today.... More diarrhea... Not watery, just mucous and blood. I'd just so happened to let him play out of the bathroom when it happened so planning on keeping him in the bathroom the rest of the night and resanitizing the apartment in the morning.... I'm gonna be more strict now and keep him in the bathroom almost the entirety of the rest of the treatment (4 days Kocci and 6 days panacur). I'm unfortunately leaving him with my mom for the weekend as I'll be out of town, but I'll make sure to tell her not to let him out at all except when she's cleaning the bathroom and changing his litter. I already instructed her with the medicines and the cleaning regimen that I keep for his toys and bedding.

I was so optimistic when his stool started being formed and I feel like maybe I was just treating the symptoms without helping him get rid of giardia.... If this third treatment of panacur and Kocci free don't work... I might have to reconsider his adoption....I can't revolve my week accounting for some additional 8 hours of cleaning to no avail, to keep my pet in the bathroom at all times, and to be heart broken all the time about a parasite that's taking over my every thought during the day...

I felt like I was ready to give a pet a new happy home but maybe my friends were right in me not being ready... It seems like nothing I'm doing is helping the situation at all....

It does sound like something different needs to happen! There are many strains of giardia and the one your cat has may be an especially resistant one. If secnidazole or metronidazole (flagyl) has not been tried yet, I would strongly recommend asking for one of those. In my experience giardia kittens are more likely to be cured by metronidazole than panacur (secnidazole I never used before, but it is in the same family as metronidazole and apparently even more effective).

There's also 2 other possibilities that come to mind, one being that the giardia is cured but now a different parasite has taken over, or that the diarrhea you're seeing is a side effect of the medication. So chances are, if the diarrhea is different in color or smell, then the giardia is no longer the issue and it's one of those. In general, giardia diarrhea tends to be soft, brown, and occasionally sweet smelling, whereas coccidia diarrhea tends more towards a yellow-green tinge and smells really foul. If it's just a side effect, it will go away when the medication is done, but if it's coccidia or a different parasite, it will take a different medication (likely ponazuril) to get rid of it.

By all means, change vets if you're unsatisfied with this one. It does seem that the typical vet is not always very experienced with kitten issues (older cats often develop resistance to these parasites and they don't show up as much in adults). Really experienced shelter volunteers (more so than me) tend to have a better idea than vets how to treat kittens because they see so many of them, so if you can ask around at shelters for help from someone like that they could be a huge help.

 

[jcat]

S santisd I really feel for you, having had to deal with some very persistent cases of giardiasis at the animal shelter last year (one litter of young kittens and two juveniles unrelated to them). Molly92 is correct that there are different strains of giardia, some of which are resistant to the usual drugs used to combat giardiasis. That said, in my experience it often takes 2 or 3 rounds of Panacur to get rid of it, so it's way too early to throw in the towel.

Your vet may have to prescribe another drug like Metronidazole or the above-mentioned Secnidazole. Our kittens and the two juveniles didn't respond to the former, either, and the latter isn't available here. We had two adult strays that had giardia in addition to other infections, for which Convenia was administered. The giardia also disappeared, so the vet was persuaded to try Convened off label on the kittens and juveniles, and it worked! Real clinical tests haven't been done and it most probably doesn't work for all strains, but we were desperate after a whole year of having the juveniles treated over and over and also losing one of the kittens at 7 weeks. I'm not recommending a particular course of treatment, but you should talk to your vet about alternatives if Panacur doesn't work this time.

The constant cleaning wears one out, and a shelter environment is obviously much different from a home, but some things might make it easier for you. A good steam cleaner, if you can afford it, obviates the necessity of expensive disinfectants and can be used on upholstery and carpets as well as hard surfaces. Old towels (ask family, friends, neighbors, co-workers) can be thrown out after use. Disposable litter boxes (you can use low cardboard cartons placed on top of a plastic garbage bag) will not only cut down the risk of infections, but save you a lot of work.

Last but not least, a lot of vets will tell you that kittens often "outgrow" giardiasis as their immune systems develop, so it isn't something you have to cope with endlessly.

 

[calicosrspecial]

santisD,

Molly92 and jcat give great advice and suggestions.

I can't add to their excellent posts but I want to mention one thing.

I think you are amazing and you are a great pet owner. I think you were more than ready and the love and diligence you are providing this wonderful kitten is fantastic. If all pet owners were like you the world would be a much better place. Please do not get down, you are doing excellent work and I think all you are doing is helping. Please talk to your vet about the above two posts and I think you will see light at the end of the tunnel.

Thank you so much for all you are doing for this kitten. The love you are showing him is very special. You are a wonderful person!!