Gabapentin question

[RussellsMom]

Has anyone given gabapentin to a cat with heart disease? I'd like to try it on my Russell before he goes in for an echocardiogram on Tuesday (for suspected heart disease), but am nervous about sedating him and would love to hear others' experiences, good or bad, about using it on their heart kitties.

Thanks so much!

 

[iPappy]

I have no direct experience myself, but, I have groomed dogs that take gabapentin for anxiety that have heart murmurs with no issues. It seems to be much more gentle than the older sedation drugs were.
Did you discuss your concerns with using the sedation for Russell with the vet that is doing the echo?

 

[RussellsMom]

Thank, iPappy. The veterinary assistant at the cardiology office where we're having the echo recommended it - I'd rather have had the OK from the vet herself. I'm sick with anxiety about the whole thing and can't think straight about the gabapentin. Russell was almost literally apoplectic at the regular vet last week and I don't want him to experience that again, but I'm scared to try this drug on him.

 

[neely]

The veterinary assistant at the cardiology office where we're having the echo recommended it - I'd rather have had the OK from the vet herself.

Do you know if the vet assistant spoke to the cardiologist before recommending it? Did he or she specify the dosage? I understand your concern and, therefore, you may want to call back for reassurance and peace of mind. Best of luck, please keep us updated on Russel's progress.

 

[iPappy]

If he was that angry and upset last time he was at the vets office, that can't be good for his heart. I understand that because when I had one with heart problems, my life centered around keeping him as calm as possible. I guarded him fiercely.
Does the vet have any idea what type of heart disease he has, or how bad? Or is that what the echo will show them?
You could always call Monday, express your worries, and ask the vet to call you back. Most vets will do this, especially in situations like this.

 

[RussellsMom]

Thank you both -

neely, The vet assistant did not speak to the vet before recommending it, she just said that their cardiology center regularly uses gabapentin before echo appointments.

Our regular vet - who somehow terrorized Russell so awfully last Monday (my other threads have more details - "Severe blood draw injury" and "Extremely elevated BNP - heart disease?" I'm sorry to post so many different threads, but I'm feeling frantic) - also strongly recommended giving him gabapentin before his echocardiogram appointment.

But that vet has been suggesting we give him gaba for years before each vet visit; however, she's the only vet who he has such a bad reaction to. Unfortunately she's also the only remaining vet at our local practice. I have major trust issues with her - most likely that's more me than her, but still...

iPappy, "Guarded him fiercely" - yes, that's us. I go into a near-murderous rage when anyone upsets my boy. He's a tough little bruiser, but he's our most precious treasured love. I know everyone here can relate.

We don't know anything about his heart yet, other than his BNP was off-the-charts high (1236; normal range 0-100). We couldn't live with ourselves if we didn't get the echo after numbers like that, but we're also terrified of stressing him out further. Our fervent hope: that the test was in error or that it was ridiculously elevated because of his rage. He seems perfectly fine and normal but at least for now we have to proceed as though he has heart disease.

He's only had gaba once, 5 years ago, and that was in conjunction with a Torb injection. He was severely loopy for hours afterwards and seemed distressed by his loopiness and ataxia, so we've declined its use since then. I'm trying to weigh up the danger - if there is any - of giving him gabapentin before Tuesday's long drive and echo, with the danger of the extreme stress he'll almost certainly experience at that appointment. Not to mention that we really want them to be able to get good images during the echo, since the soonest we could get him seen besides this Tuesday is next December.

We have 50 mg mini-tabs. I don't want to pill him the night before, because I need to sleep a bit and I wouldn't be able to if I did that. I'm thinking of giving him 50 mg 2 hours before the appointment?

I will certainly call the cardiology office again on Monday and try to speak with a vet.

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi RussellsMom !

I want to give you a pamphlet that came out in 2015 (and was updated in 2022), around the time that Gabapentin was first used in fearful/aggressive cats undergoing Veterinary services. It's written by a Veterinary Anesthesiologist and meant for folks in that industry....but with enough plain-language for us laypeople to 'get'.

I suggest passing it along to your Vet before talking to them tomorrow. (It's shameful that they would need this at all!)

Meantime, have a read for yourself.....if Step 1 'works', you'll likely only need to use Step 2 and you'll be be 'good to go'.

Here's the pamphlet: https://vetanesthesiaspecialists.co...Options_DogsAndCats_Shafford_Updated_2022.pdf

Home - Veterinary Anesthesia Specialists

A couple of things....

- Note that she is recommending that two administrations of Gabapentin be employed: the first, the night before, and the second 2 hours before the appointment.​

​

- Note that, for a "big cat", she is recommending a dosage of 150mg.​

​

- Remember the effect of the drug: in plain plan language, he likely won't have his legs under him. So, the night before, after you've administered the first dose, he needs to be somewhere where he can't injure himself. Ideally, I suppose, that would be a large dog cage.......you'll have to lay that stage for yourself.​

​

- I know already that you're a stickler for detail, but I'll still point out this snip for you:​

" Expect that cats will be ataxic and slow but not overtly sedate on this dose of gabapentin. Prepare owners for this!! The sedative effect lingers for ~12 hours and will contribute to woozy behavior – and risk of falling – after the cat has returned home. Advise owner to restrict cat’s access to stairs while the cat is ataxic." [Again, that's more than stairs.....it's anywhere the cat can jump to.)​

I have a lot of references for the use of Gabapentin like this......I'll leave you with one more in more "pet owner-friendly" language: Reduce Feline Stress For Better Vet Visits

And, here's one example from TCS: Semi-Feral - to the Vet
A few posts down from there, they wrote this: "Yep, Ruby was totally out of it during the vet visit. Such a difference from her first visit when she climbed the walls and was absolutely terrified."

Hope some/more of this helps !
.
[edit: typo]

 

[iPappy]

Keep in mind, I am not a vet, have no training to be a vet or a technician, etc...
I would suspect either the Torb, or the combination of the torb and gabapentin, caused that reaction. Please make sure the cardiologist knows this, and the combo that was given. Medications can be scary because there's always the risk of side effects, but gabapentin is something I am somewhat comfortable using if their stress is that bad. I remember back when ace was the gold standard for sedation. It was so unpredictable. Some animals went completely gentle and dopey, and others increased their aggression to uncontrolled rage (with no bite inhibition), hyperactivity, etc. I haven't seen that in gabapentin but again...I am not a vet and have only my own limited experiences to go with.
I am hoping all goes well for you all on Tuesday. It's a scary situation but it's very good they can get you in this soon.
Do you have to take him there by yourself? I've found it to be very helpful to cover the carrier completely during the trip, and play something calming and relaxing on the radio. With my cats, I tend to talk to them in a normal tone of voice, too, because it's what they're used to hearing.
to you and Russell.

 

[RussellsMom]

Thank you all so much! Your responses are helping alleviate my anxiety. white shadow, thank you - I'm glad you highlighted parts of the pamphlet, because I couldn't get the link to work (probably my not-up-to-date computer). Does 150 mg seem like a lot to anyone? I was thinking of trying a low dose of 50 mg, which was recommended by our regular vet, but I'm also worried he might not be sedated enough for the vet visit. Maybe 100? Unfortunately, there's no way to know without testing it out on my little boy.

I'd also read somewhere about giving a dose the night before, then on the day, but as scared as I am to dose him once, I'm doubly scared to dose him twice! Also, I know I wouldn't be able to sleep and would have to keep vigil all night if I drugged him, and I need to be semi-sane for the echo appointment at 9 a.m. It's another dilemma for me. Anyone with experience either dosing twice or only dosing on the day of the appointment, please share - I'd love to hear more. I'll also call the vet on Monday to discuss all these options more thoroughly.

Also, we're going to ask for capsules. We have mini-tablets, but from what I've read the capsule contents are tasteless when sprinkled in cats' food, and Russell's not a good pill taker. Anyone have advice or experience one way or the other?

iPappy, yes, I suspect it was the Torb or the combination. Everything I've read and now heard from folks here about gabapentin makes me think it probably wasn't the gaba that upset him. I definitely want to try it in the hope of reducing his stress, but I want to get the dosage and the timing right.

My husband and I are both going to the appointment, thank goodness. I'll sit in the back with Russell, so I'll be able to pet him and talk to him while he's in his plush carrier.

 

[iPappy]

Having someone drive you is ideal, I'm glad you don't have to do this all on your own!
Again, I have not used gaba on my own pets as of yet, but we did board one that was going to be picked up from our place and immediately placed in the car for a long move. We did a dose the night before, and a dose that morning, and she really didn't seem any different than normal. She still ate, played, etc. The vet recommended it as a way to take the edge off, not necessarily drug her to the point she was unresponsive.
Hopefully you can talk to the cardiologist today and it will help ease the rest of your worries.

 

[RussellsMom]

Another consideration: we went through Russi's medical history again and saw that, 5 years ago, when he was given the Torb injection to sedate him for his last blood draw and I thought they had also given him gabapentin at that time, it seems they probably only gave him the Torb injection. Ten 100mg gabapentin capsules were included on the invoice, but there was no indication that they had given him one of those or not (they might have - I just don't know). It's so long ago, and he had absolutely no health concerns at the time, so I didn't think anything about agreeing to buy the inexpensive gaba at the end of the visit other than my usual "I'm not going to give that to my cat!" So that's good in the sense that his extreme high was probably just caused by Torb and not by gaba; but it also means he's never tried gaba before, so we don't know what the effect will be.

Our current plan is to give him most or all of the contents of a 100mg capsule sprinkled in a little wet food around 7 a.m. tomorrow. We need to be in the car by about 8:30 and the appointment is at 9:30. I'm hoping that's sufficient dosing and timing for him to be relaxed for the car ride and then really relaxed for the echo. For the record, he's generally pretty calm in the car, just not at the vet; also he's never been in the car that long.

We have a new carrier for him in the hope he doesn't associate it with his vet visit last week. We've had it sitting open in the living room for several days, with a soft blanket and toys inside. I saw him walk in and out once and he's rubbed his face against the corner a few times, but otherwise hasn't been too interested; he's certainly not distressed by it. I put a few treats inside and I did notice yesterday that they were gone, but we have the occasional mouse, so I'm not sure who ate them.

Scared Mom!

 

[RussellsMom]

In the meantime, any more folks' experience using gabapentin (dose, timing, effectiveness) would be very much appreciated - thanks!

 

[neely]

In the meantime, any more folks' experience using gabapentin (dose, timing, effectiveness) would be very much appreciated - thanks!

Let me preface this by explaining: Our boy, Carleton, came from a bad hoarding situation, then adopted out and returned a year later because the couple told the shelter they didn't want a pet anymore. We fell in love with him and promised to give him his forever home. He is the sweetest, most loving cat in spite of his past and I am an overprotective mama. He is an angel at home but has a short fuse at the vet for certain procedures, e.g. nail clipping, grooming, etc. Basically he doesn't like to be messed with and I attribute that to his previous history mentioned. The vet suggested giving him Gabapentin which I was worried about too. However, I wanted him to be relaxed and gave in. He has lost some weight due to age and weighs approx. 8.5 lbs. now and gets a 50 mg pill, one the night before and one in the morning 2-3 hours before his appointment. He's not the easiest cat to pill but the only way I can tell if he got all the Gabapentin is to give it to him in pill form. Then I syringe some water in his mouth to help him swallow. It has helped immensely and fortunately he has not had any negative side effects. I hope the same is true for Russell and wish you the best of luck.

 

[RussellsMom]

THANK YOU, neely!

 

[fionasmom]

RussellsMom links in #7 have been corrected and should be readable.

 

[iPappy]

I am apparently not that bright and just now realized you are the poster who had taken care of Danno a few short months ago, so it's no wonder you're feeling so upset and stressed.
You're a great cat mom.

 

[RussellsMom]

Thank you so much

 

[RussellsMom]

Sorry, just had to go off for a big crying break... Your message really touched me, iPappy. Yes, I'm still grieving for Danno - it's less than 2 months ago. And all of that feeling so out of my control not just with the lymphoma but also with my difficult extended family. Even so, Danno wasn't my boy, and though I'm grieving for him, the grief is less painful than the grief I've experienced over my previous cats. I got very close to Danno in that month I was caring for him, but I hadn't been that close to him before. Russell, though, is the center of my husband's and my life - we're a family, and daily soul-entwined year after year, as I'm sure everyone here can relate. So my worry about him is so much more acute, but you're right, probably also heightened by my already being so stressed and exhausted from my experience with Danno.

 

[iPappy]

Sorry, just had to go off for a big crying break... Your message really touched me, iPappy. Yes, I'm still grieving for Danno - it's less than 2 months ago. And all of that feeling so out of my control not just with the lymphoma but also with my difficult extended family. Even so, Danno wasn't my boy, and though I'm grieving for him, the grief is less painful than the grief I've experienced over my previous cats. I got very close to Danno in that month I was caring for him, but I hadn't been that close to him before. Russell, though, is the center of my husband's and my life - we're a family, and daily soul-entwined year after year, as I'm sure everyone here can relate. So my worry about him is so much more acute, but you're right, probably also heightened by my already being so stressed and exhausted from my experience with Danno.

I am sorry. I should have considered I might have brought up grief about Danno. It just hit me all of a sudden that you had gone through that, and now this, and I feel your pain on losing one only to have another suddenly start having problems. It's so difficult. I apologize.

 

[RussellsMom]

Please don't be sorry - I was really touched. I think I hadn't fully acknowledged that grief and stress about Danno has been complicating my anxiety about Russell, so that's actually quite helpful to remember. These pains and worries come with the territory, right?