First post here :) Seeking some help for my kitten

[bloewen4]

First let me introduce myself. My name is Bill Loewen. I live in southern Ontario. I live alone so decided to get some company in the house. I picked up Fritz, a male bengal from a local breeder. Hes about 9 months old now and got him neutered at around 6 months after all the proper shots were given in the appropriate times.

Hes an amazing cat keeps me entertained and he's really smart. Not once did he go out of the litter box since I got him at about 8 weeks (that I noticed) but there was no smell until more recently. So here's my problem. First let me say that I know lots of people have problems and think it's cruel to declaw your cat and I think there is alot of truth to that. Also I hear lots of horror stories that there are so many cats put down daily because they cannot find a home for them. I think it's better to live without nails then to be put down.

When I got Fritz I did not want to get him declawed. I tried training him to not claw the furniture with a water bottle and consistantly spraying him at any hint of scratching the furniture. Also I do have a scratch post untouched in the main floor and basement with treats and cat nap by it but he would take the treats not touch the posts and go crazy on my couch and area rug. After months of this he did not touch the posts and destroyed my couches and rug. Now in relation to what I had mentioned earlier my dilemma was to get rid of him or to declaw. I had him declawed with intentions of never letting him outside alone. I love Fritz and didn't want to see him go. Anyways... now that thats out of the way lol hope you can understand my reasoning.

After getting him declawed they told me at the vet that you cannot let him use the litter box for 2 weeks. At this point there was zero smell. They recommend shredded newspaper in a cardboard box. I make a nice litter box for him exactly as they told me. He did not use it for 2 weeks. I kept him only in the basement where its concrete for the 2 weeks since I seen he wasn't using the shredded newspaper and didn't want pee on my nice furniture upstairs so I brought his food toys and everything down to the basement for 2 weeks until He was allowed the litter box again. Apparently the grittiness of the litter would rip his stitches open. He would go number 2 in the cold room in the basement and had wet stains all over which I assumed was pee. My plan worked so I thought to control the area and neutralize it after. It made me laugh because he was collecting little pebbles from the concrete floor to use as a little litter. After 2 weeks I returned his litter box. The same day I cleaned it and he went pee and poo so he was smart enough to start using it right away. Now my problem. The musky pee smell I cannot locate and its not coming from the cold room. The smell is strong when I walk in the house and weaker towards the other end of the house where the cold room is. I can smell it upstairs and down but assuming its from the basement since I kept him down there while the litter box was taken away. After researching the most common solution was a black light and Natures Miracle. So I went and bought them. I scoured the entire house last night for hours and nothing shows up not even when I shone it in the litter box although its fresh at the moment. Im thinking I might have bought the wrong bulb? It just says 80watt black bulb which I pit into a trouble light from the garage. I checked all corners and walls 1 foot high. After checking again on the net I seen that they mention fluorescent light is there a difference? Do I have the wrong bulb? It looks purple and everything white glows. No pee spots though and its was at night in the dark when I checked. I seen some little spots on the stair carpet but I touch them and it's just lint.

I need this smell out of my house as Im pretty clean Id rip the drywall out before giving up lol. Which is what scares me. Ok so I didn't notice before or Id have stopped him. He was able to access the ceiling from the top of the stairs leading to the basement. He would go to the top of the stairs crawl into a little hole in the drywall and run around in the ceiling in the drywall where Id never be able to access without cutting holes and pitting the light up in there. Its makes sense that he might have peed in there for the 2 weeks as I can smell it up and downstairs when I walk in the house. And his ceiling access point is on the side of the house where I enter and smell right away but this is just a guess and dont want to start tearing drywall down without at least asking for opinions by some more experienced cat owners. My mom suggested to spray my house with lysol. 2 full bottles all over the floors and walls it still smells. I try to locate the smell within the first few minutes of getting home from work when the stench is new but after 30m I become accustomed to the smell and cant track anything. I love my cat and know its NOT his fault I blame myself but at the same time I cannot live like this Im embarassed to bring anyone over. Please please help. thanks

 

[AbbysMom]

Just a note to all members -

While we are an anti-declaw site, what's done is done and posts regarding the declawing will be deleted. Our focus in this thread is to help Bloewen4 and his cat.

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

First let me introduce myself. My name is Bill Loewen. ... . Ok so I didn't notice before or Id have stopped him. He was able to access the ceiling from the top of the stairs leading to the basement. He would go to the top of the stairs crawl into a little hole in the drywall and run around in the ceiling in the drywall where Id never be able to access without cutting holes and pitting the light up in there. Its makes sense that he might have peed in there for the 2 weeks as I can smell it up and downstairs when I walk in the house. And his ceiling access point is on the side of the house where I enter and smell right away but this is just a guess and dont want to start tearing drywall down without at least asking for opinions by some more experienced cat owners ...

Your guess sounds like a good one to me. A very tough situation to deal with. It would be hard to know if he peed up there in just one single place, or in several places, unless you tear down the ceiling to investigate further. I might add that he could still be doing this (if that's what's happening), so you might need to temporarily block that access to the ceiling area until you decide what to do. Good luck!

 

[bloewen4]

Thanks for your input Oh I blocked access to the ceiling with a pillow as soon as I realized he could get up there. I wish I knew he could get up there before his 2 weeks in the basement without the litterbox. As I mentioned I checked the litter box and hes peeing in it regularly now Im easily desciphering between n1 and n2 clumps and hes starting going almost like it was a relief to get it back. I really think its in the ceiling. Just wondering if anyone had ideas before ripping drywall down? My friend at work suggested to bring a small dog over to sniff it out but that wont help if its in the ceiling unless I go upstairs perhaps. Is my bulb ok? Or does it have to fluorescent to detect pee?

 

[rpandcat]

You may want to take your cat to the vet to make sure he's not in pain. The vet might not be able to tell (cats have a high pain tolerance, and tend not to show pain as they are prey as well as predator), but it might be worth trying. Declawing can cause long term pain problems for cats, and it may change some of his usual habits/behaviors.

You did not mention anything about what your cat is eating. From what I understand, declawing is a pretty intense surgery. I would imagine that going back to regular eating might be a little delayed. Also--regular drinking. I'm wondering if his kidneys are okay, and if he's drinking enough water/getting enough moisture through his food.

The suggestion about lysol seems a little off to me. The issue I have with things like lysol is that whatever was stinking now smells like lysol--and whatever was stinking. Honestly, I'm not sure how one would get rid of a smell like that. The "biological" cleaners, like Nature's Miracle, are supposed to be helpful, but I don't know. (When we had a puppy being house-trained, we went through a lot of Simple Green.) Also, if the blacklight is not showing anything, I imagine there's nothing there (I believe the bulb has more to do with "power," rather than the frequency/type of light that's being emitted).

Declawing, in and of itself, can create its own behavior problems. It is pretty common for declawed cats to develop issues surrounding their litter box habits, and I think that pooping and peeing outside the box is a consequence of that type of surgery. Declawing can also create behavior issues (like a biting cat). These kinds of things--different behaviors and litter box habits--are things to watch for.

Scratching problems can usually be addressed with simple solutions. Radical and permanent solutions, like declawing, can invite a host of new problems. Scratching is a part of a cat's natural behavior. Most people find that re-directing their cat's natural behavior onto scratch-friendly surfaces a straightforward process, and cats have different preferences for different surfaces (e.g. sisal, carpet). I'm lucky because my cat loves those cardboard scratchers, and I've got a slew of them around the house. I put them in both socially prominent places and places she likes to visit (there's one in a bathtub--the cat likes to roll around in showers and bathtubs). The socially prominent aspect is important as cats are not only physically marking their places, they are scent marking them as well through scent glands in their foot pads.

Marking territory may be important to your big male cat, and if he cannot do it through scratching, he may simply find another way to do it.

My cat showed a liking for the dining room. She wanted to scratch the chairs. I put Sticky-Paws (it's double-sided tape) on the fabric  seats of the chairs--and in exchange--put a scratcher under the table. She also wants to make a mark in one of the places where the dog and the family hang out--so she has two scratchers in the family room (and the dog has one of his beds). I put catnip *in* the scratcher--not next to it. However, I've found that catnip loses it's "perk" after awhile (I imagine it dries out), and it's just to get her to notice a new scratcher.

In declawing your cat, as you know, he cannot go outside as he cannot defend himself. I just want to point out that declawing does not make a cat less likely to be surrendered to a shelter--declawing makes a cat more likely to be surrendered--and less likely to be later adopted out.

People often liken declawing to docking a dog's ears. I would not say that they are anything alike. People have been piercing their babies ears--and their own ears, noses, and God knows what else, for time eternal. People have also been getting tattoos and scarifications. It is rare that alterations in the skin cause long-term problems. People with amputations often have pain issues. Declawing is more like amputation.

If I were you, I'd get a bunch of litter boxes, and put those boxes in the socially prominent places. Whereas before, you might have just been able to solve the issue with a scratcher under the coffee table, you may be stuck with a litter box next to the coffee table. And I would try to find a litter that the cat is especially fond of. You may be trying corn litters, crystal litters, wheat litters, and so on, in order to find one that he is willing to always use. If he sleeps in your bedroom, I would be putting a litter box in your bedroom (not in the bathroom). I would be cleaning these litter boxes often, but I would also know that the cat wants to have his own smell around.

Your cat is now different. You cannot change him back. He's going to behave differently, and just as you needed to address how the cat scratches your furniture, you will now need to address any new behavioral issues. This cat is very young, and might live for 20 years. My step-father, before I met him, had a declawed cat that lived for 18 years. I think she had an okay life, but I can't crawl inside her brain.

Personally, I want my cat to live forever. Because, well, she *is* the best cat in the world.

 

[Margret]

If the black light isn't finding it, it's not there. Can you get your black light into the ceiling through the hole your cat used? If not, find a smaller black light. That plus a small mirror may be able to tell you the extent of the damage before you start tearing out drywall. I would look for a way to attach the mirror to a selfie stick, but I tend to use hardware for purposes for which it was never intended.

I hate to say it, but you may need to get a professional to fix this problem for you. Try your local Chamber of Commerce for recommendations for a good handyman (or woman).

For future reference, punishment is not a very effective way to train a cat. Express your displeasure by hissing, use Sticky Paws or something similar for out of bounds areas, and use a gentle tap on the nose to say "No" (this is how a mother cat informs her kittens that they're doing something dangerous). And reward good behavior with treats, catnip, head scratching, or playtime. Any or all of them.

Margret

 

[bloewen4]

THanks for your very informative reply Ill try to touch base on everything that was mentioned. Alright so starting from the top I seriously doubt he is in pain judging by his actions. He is still as active or more so than before he jumps right onto my mantle which is about 5 feet high. He jumps right down with a big thud sound on the floor on his paws instead of taking a different easier route down which Ive seen he can do. Honestly I dont see many chanhes in his behavior hes as talkative as before hyper like before and really agile. One change I did notice is that he is biting more when playing but I figured it was because he cant grab the string with his claws anymore and pull so he bites and pulls after swatting. The fact that he is swatting first then biting told me his first choice was claws so his paws must be alright. Also he still tries to scratch the rug walls and support beams in the basement which I thought was sad but what I didn't realize is that he has foot pads and perhaps just leaving scents since he can no longer spray.

paragraph 2 lol. The vet told me to not change his food. He was stern on that he said you dont want to upset him more during this process. His food says its full of nutrients and vitamins. Cant remember the brand name currently can check later if needed but I stayed away from the good tasting and went with healthy food. He always drinks water I refill the bowl about 3 times a day and the food bowl twice. He always gets food in his water though for some reason amd doesn't finish the water all the way but its significantly low.

par 3. I reaearched and at the pet store they gave me the same answer. Natures Miracle because there an enzyme that kills the urine. I bought a bottle 24$ cdn 750ml expensive but worth every cent if I can locate the scent lol.

p4. I understand that it could cause behavioural problems but he is crazy smart and like I said as soon as I returned the litterbox he immediatly used it and I checked often few times a day. If it was because of a behavioral problem that got him to stop peeing in the box wouldn't the evidence show in the black light? I cut his access off immediately to the ceiling and found no urine spots with the black light. I listened once while he went in box and heard the sound of liquid pooling through the litter amd all the evidence is showing hes using the box. If he was using the box and going out wouldn't I see evidence now with the light now that his ceiling access is cutoff?

p5-9. Whats done is done. I seriously tried my best to train him before making this decision and did lots of research. Bengals are crazy hyper and active. He would climb my curtains to the ceiling and hang off it like a bat. I wanted a cat that was active. He honestly doesn't appear to have any behavior change what so ever other than the biting to pull the string. And Id never ever let him go out alone just to be clear. I knew that before declawing. I know this is a touchy subject but I do love my cat amd want to keep him happy.

P10 Would that be necessary if Im confident hes now using the litter box? I mean switching the type of litter if I know hes using it. Another box upstairs might help make him feel more comfortable but my goal was to keep that smell in the basement. Up until his 2 weeks without the box he always used the box and the house never smelled. I think hes using the box just fine and there is one problem area he had.

I really hope he does live a long full life. He brings me lots of joy and entertainment. Id never neglect Fritz for the odour I completely blame myself. Thanks again for tips

 

[bloewen4]

Margret,

Thanks so much for that tip! A mirror and stick definitely will do that before tearing down drywall! There is no way I can get even 1 foot into the ceiling hole and believe me I tried. Its too awkward and narrow from the stairs. How wpuld you specically do this just feed the light on a stick and look with the mirror while holding it?

I can do drywall dont need a professional to do that. Or did you mean professional cleaning company?

Wow really? Thats crazy because the advice I recieved on the spray bottle seemed like a lady with lots of experience woth cats who I spoke to personally at work with. I will definitely never do that again and try your methods

 

[Margret]

I've never used a selfie stick; isn't there some way to change the angle? The problem is figuring out how to attach the mirror and still retain functionality.

I would say try shining the light in sothat it illuminates as much of the area as possible, including areas that aren't directly visible from the opening. Perhaps a second selfie stick for the light, to get it around corners?. Then use the mirror to see as much as possible.

The person you spoke with who recommended the spray bottle may well have used one successfully; I've tried it, with no success at all. Cats are much more reward driven, and, just as with humans, communication is a better way to solve problems than violence (and, yes, a cat does perceive being sprayed with water as violence). Hissing is the way a cat says "I'm angry." Communication. A tap on the nose is how a mother cat says "No." Communication. Staring is how a cat asserts dominance, and glancing away is submissive behavior. More communication.

Probably food is getting in the water bowl because they're too close together. Try moving the water bowl a couple of feet away, so he can't turn directly from the food dish to get a drink. That will give him time to swallow completely.

Scratching isn't just for marking territory; it's also to pull off claw sheaths as claws grow out, which sharpens the claws, and it's exercise for the shoulders and legs. It is deeply ingrained behavior in a cat, and even declawed cats have a physical need for it. Hang on to the scratching posts you have, and add some catnip occasionally, just for pleasure (uh, once he's old enough to enjoy catnip, that is — it takes time for a kitten to grow into the taste for it, and some never do).

Does he still knead his paws when he's relaxed and happy? That's where I would look for evidence of pain or lack of pain. Claw kneading is also deeply ingrained, instinctual, even; it's how a kitten gets milk from Mom, and even the oldest cats still do it when they feel secure and content. Adrenalin, as would be present in play, can mask pain. See what happens when there's little to no adrenalin in his system.

A professional cleaner may be what you need; I don't know. Ripping out drywall is easy — the question is, can you replace it with fresh drywall afterwards?

Margret

 

[MoochNNoodles]

I will write more later; but just commenting that I have one who will NOT use any litter that is not her usual brand.  She soiled her favorite bed rather than use the special pan when the vet needed a urine sample.  She then proceeded to hold her bladder for over 24 hours at the vet and needed sedation just to get the sample.  

 

[Margret]

I will write more later; but just commenting that I have one who will NOT use any litter that is not her usual brand.  She soiled her favorite bed rather than use the special pan when the vet needed a urine sample.  She then proceeded to hold her bladder for over 24 hours at the vet and needed sedation just to get the sample.  

Huh! I have a husband who was in the hospital when the nephrologist called his room to ask for a urine sample. He was busy talking with visitors and didn't want to take the time just then. Fifteen minutes later the nephrologist called down again and said that if the urine sample was not provided voluntarily, immediately, she would come down and take it by force. That got his attention all right! It also got the nephrologist her urine sample. Pity the same tactic doesn't work with cats.

Margret

 

[MoochNNoodles]

Huh! I have a husband who was in the hospital when the nephrologist called his room to ask for a urine sample. He was busy talking with visitors and didn't want to take the time just then. Fifteen minutes later the nephrologist called down again and said that if the urine sample was not provided voluntarily, immediately, she would come down and take it by force. That got his attention all right! It also got the nephrologist her urine sample. Pity the same tactic doesn't work with cats.

Margret

  It would have sure been cheaper for me!  

  My vet was even surprised how stubborn Noodles was about it! She tried so many tricks!

I was doing some reading on black lights last night.  People seemed to have mixed results; depending on the style lamp they used.  One said he found only the end of the lamp fluoresced on the spots.  I guess it has something to do with the right concentration of light.  Someone mentioned yellow tinted glasses helped as well.  

I do think the ceiling might be your problem; but I'd also think that urine would have soaked through drywall somewhere.  Have you tried the light on the ceiling?  

I feel your pain with the smells in your home.  My mother has one who has had litter box issues since they adopted her.  She taught one of the other cats to also go inside.  Eventually my mother replaced her living room carpet with hardwood and they spent a few days cleaning the sub-floor before the installers came.  The cat seeks out soft places to go; so it solved the problem in most of the house by doing that.  It's not a pleasant thing to have to deal with.

 

[Margret]

If you have any suspicion that your black light isn't showing something that's actually there, put it away and save it for the psychedelic posters. Get one that's specifically for detecting pet stains. They're not expensive. Use it in a dark room, and try the yellow glasses trick. (Search on "blue blocker sun glasses".)

Margret

 

[rmnative]

There is a new product for urine stains & smell called Fizzion.
I got it on Amazon.
It works. I was amazed. I used Natures Miracle for a long time with so-so results. I went over some of the spots already cleaned with N.M. Not only did it get the old stain out, but the smell finally disappeared!
I hope this helps...

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Huh! I have a husband who was in the hospital when the nephrologist called his room to ask for a urine sample. He was busy talking with visitors and didn't want to take the time just then. Fifteen minutes later the nephrologist called down again and said that if the urine sample was not provided voluntarily, immediately, she would come down and take it by force. That got his attention all right! It also got the nephrologist her urine sample. Pity the same tactic doesn't work with cats.

Margret

Oh heavens!  I had an ex that went through the same thing!  The ex got a little mifty, and the nephrologist earned my undying awe by informing him that the sample would be immediately forthcoming, or she (funny...both "she") would "milk him like a city slicker with a bull calf."

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I am so sorry that you have to resort to declawing.  I know you did the best you knew for your cat, given the problems that you were having.  As for the odor, there are many good enzymatic cleaning products, some better on one surface, some on another.  I did a quick search of Jackson Galaxy's site just now, hoping to find the enzymatic cleaner that he recommends, and failed.  Probably because I have limited search skills.  If your's are good, google him, go to "shop," and head out from there.  HOWEVER...drywall is tricky.  It is just so darned absorbent that you may just want to replace it and be done with it. 

 

[Margret]

Oh heavens!  I had an ex that went through the same thing!  The ex got a little mifty, and the nephrologist earned my undying awe by informing him that the sample would be immediately forthcoming, or she (funny...both "she") would "milk him like a city slicker with a bull calf."

My feeling at the time was that the threat wouldn't have been nearly as effective had the nephrologist been a man.

I told my mother about it that night. She lives several states away, and my husband loves her as much as I do. She said, "Tell him to obey his doctors or I'll come sit on him until he does." When I told my husband, he got a speculative look in his eyes and said, "Is that a promise?"

:lol3:

However, we diverge from the topic.

Margret

 

[Mamanyt1953]

However, we diverge from the topic.

Margret

I promise I'll quit after this...but diverging is one of our best things.  Prowling the threads, I've noticed that.

 

[Margret]

I promise I'll quit after this...but diverging is one of our best things.  Prowling the threads, I've noticed that.

True, but generally we diverge in a feline direction. :chescat:

Margret :high5:

 

[stewball]

If the black light isn't finding it, it's not there. Can you get your black light into the ceiling through the hole your cat used? If not, find a smaller black light. That plus a small mirror may be able to tell you the extent of the damage before you start tearing out drywall. I would look for a way to attach the mirror to a selfie stick, but I tend to use hardware for purposes for which it was never intended.

I hate to say it, but you may need to get a professional to fix this problem for you. Try your local Chamber of Commerce for recommendations for a good handyman (or woman).

For future reference, punishment is not a very effective way to train a cat. Express your displeasure by hissing, use Sticky Paws or something similar for out of bounds areas, and use a gentle tap on the nose to say "No" (this is how a mother cat informs her kittens that they're doing something dangerous). And reward good behavior with treats, catnip, head scratching, or playtime. Any or all of them.

Margret

although he's been declaredhhe'll still want b scratch

Although he's been declawed, he'll still want to scratch. I suggest the cardboard boxes on floorwith cat nip after a late cat destroyed the back of my chair, I bought these boxes and she went mad for them. Shame iddidn't know before hand. They're very inexpensive. The idea of getting a professional in to deal with the smell.