Feral Socialization - Need Some Fresh Imput and Advice

[ondine]

Oh my goodness - what an improvement! He looks wonderful. He has such a sweet face.

When he bites, have you tried a short hiss? That would be the way another cat would tell him to back off. It usually works. He might be biting because he's overstimulated, too. Try backing off the petting or touching when he does it and see if that helps.

Absolutely the best news. Thanks for the update!

 

[shadowsrescue]

Thank you so much for updating.  He looks amazing and so relaxed and at home!  You did such a wonderful thing in bringing him into your home and taking such great care of him.  It seems he is really adjusting well.

 

[msaimee]

Awwww, what a cutie! He looks like a different cat!

 

[nycats]

How wonderful to see him looking so much better! You're an angel for taking him in.

 

[lrosewiles]

Indeed Dooder looks a new cat, and praise to you for sticking with him through this difficult recovery. 

As to the aggressive biting, I have had a similar experience with our rescue Ellie, and I came to the tentative conclusion that it was in an odd way a good sign because she was moving from being constantly scared and sick to asserting herself and defining her space.  Clearly it is not an appropriate behavior and you need to let him know that, possibly by hissing as suggested, though with Ellie that backfired, she just withdrew and hissed back ... I found a firm "NO Ellie stop, cut it out silly girl" worked better.  If he's biting badly (and Ellie did too a few times) temporarily withholding pets and a very light tap on the nose for biting also seemed to work with her - although I should add that she hissed more than bit and her bites were usually not hard enough to draw blood (well ok, not much anyway,  I'm trying to remember back and do seem to recall a few peroxide and band-aid episodes!)  A last resort is wearing leather gloves for handling, but I resisted that except for getting into the carrier because it addresses the consequences rather than the cause.

On that note, have you figured out what triggers the biting?  With Ellie it was either other cats in her vicinity  (fear or jealousy) or my hand being out of her line of vision when I petted her - she always wanted to see where my hand was and having it out of sight seemed to provoke her fear and aggression.  Also an extended closed fist = "head butt" is a better approach than an open hand, something I learned here at TCS, because an extended hand might mean grabbing or otherwise hurting.  Cat etiquette is a little peculiar, because we think an open hand means harmless intent and a fist the opposite!  My best guess is he's pushing the boundaries, and it may be time for you to push back a little so that he learns biting is not acceptable,but if you can figure out the trigger for the biting it would surely help.

More vibes for Dooder from our gang of five! 

 

[rachelinaz]

I was wondering if it was jealousy... wants you to himself.

 

[buffy2011]

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Boy is he looking good compared to what he went threw. Is he acting like a big ham in front of the mirror. Seems like he is very content. How is he coming with the new move to the other room? I have two cats that bite, one if you touch her stomach and the other one if you rub her the wrong way she get mad and bites.They don't do it all the time so I don't even think about correcting it. But advice for you, I have none. I don't know how to solve that problem other then what you just said. Scold him, but if it scares him then that isn't going to help. Hopefully you get some advice from some other reader that have been threw this. Keep the updates going, I am interested in how everyone is doing. 

 

[catb8]

 
Indeed Dooder looks a new cat, and praise to you for sticking with him through this difficult recovery. 

As to the aggressive biting, I have had a similar experience with our rescue Ellie, and I came to the tentative conclusion that it was in an odd way a good sign because she was moving from being constantly scared and sick to asserting herself and defining her space.  Clearly it is not an appropriate behavior and you need to let him know that, possibly by hissing as suggested, though with Ellie that backfired, she just withdrew and hissed back ... I found a firm "NO Ellie stop, cut it out silly girl" worked better.  If he's biting badly (and Ellie did too a few times) temporarily withholding pets and a very light tap on the nose for biting also seemed to work with her - although I should add that she hissed more than bit and her bites were usually not hard enough to draw blood (well ok, not much anyway,  I'm trying to remember back and do seem to recall a few peroxide and band-aid episodes!)  A last resort is wearing leather gloves for handling, but I resisted that except for getting into the carrier because it addresses the consequences rather than the cause.

On that note, have you figured out what triggers the biting?  With Ellie it was either other cats in her vicinity  (fear or jealousy) or my hand being out of her line of vision when I petted her - she always wanted to see where my hand was and having it out of sight seemed to provoke her fear and aggression.  Also an extended closed fist = "head butt" is a better approach than an open hand, something I learned here at TCS, because an extended hand might mean grabbing or otherwise hurting.  Cat etiquette is a little peculiar, because we think an open hand means harmless intent and a fist the opposite!  My best guess is he's pushing the boundaries, and it may be time for you to push back a little so that he learns biting is not acceptable,but if you can figure out the trigger for the biting it would surely help.

More vibes for Dooder from our gang of five! 

I've started doing a short hiss whenever he bites or claws and it seems to be working okay. He stops right away but doesn't get too scared or run away. Even with that, the biting hasn't gone down in frequency  much at all. For the most part it seems like he bites because he either gets spooked by being touched in a certain spot or he just decides he doesn't want to be touched there. It's not really any spots in particular and happens even when I'm petting his face, but typically is below the front legs. He hasn't bit when I reach my hand out to him although he will scurry away from time to time especially if I'm standing. I agree with the pushing of boundaries. I let him know it's not okay but still continue to pet him when he gets bitey and in the places he gets bitey about.  I figure the more you do it (within reason), the more he gets used to it. It's worked up to now at least. We've decided that he's going to go back to my mom's at the end of the summer to live inside (if he so chooses, he'll have access to the outside too, so who knows), so he needs to get used to being a normal tempered cat at some point.

He's not jealous of the other cats, per se, although he is pretty attached to me. On the other hand, over the past couple days he has started getting aggressive with them. He has gone out of his way to chase and/or attack Beebee several times while he's been out of his room. He usually does it when he's on the couch with me and she will be moving around. He'll lock in on her and stalk her and chase after her. I've been trying to scruff him when he gets like this and the second I touch him he hisses and bites. I've just been putting him back in his room when this happens. He does leave Stubbles alone for the most part, likely because he's much bigger.

 

[catb8]

Hi everyone! Thought I would drop by with a quick update and with a question.

For the update:

Dooder is doing splendidly. The biting has largely stopped and if it ever does happen it's more my fault for being careless and doing something I know will bother him.

He has made very good friends with a kitten we are fostering. It's been very beneficial for the both of them as it gives them a way to interact closely with other cats, something that doesn't happen with our other two as they are still unhappy about any extra feline guests. The kitten and he have both been sleeping in my bedroom at night for about a week now.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately. I'm not sure.) he has begun to stand up for himself and fight back when the other two adults hiss, growl, and pick on him. It's lead to me to have to sort of restart the introduction process by keeping him in his own room much more during the day and only letting him out for shorter periods of time. It definitely has kept him much more relaxed, but hasn't done much to win over the others.

They do deal just fine with the kitten being out though, which is helpful. They largely ignore him (he's usually sleeping anyways) and Beebee has actually begun playing with him occasionally.

As for my question:

My boyfriend and I will be going on vacation in a couple weeks. We will be gone for over a week and, after a lot of thought, we've decided that is isn't a good idea to have him stay at our apartment even with someone coming to house/cat sit. The person doing it will only be able to come once a day and I can't stand to have him cooped up in a room by himself for the majority of a week since he can't be out unsupervised. Plus, I already know it will be quite hot while we are gone. We only have a window A/C unit in our living room which would do nothing to cool either of the rooms he could be in, so his health comes into concern as well.

We've decided to have him stay with my mom while we're gone. I will be taking him down there 4 or 5 days before we leave and staying there with him until we do. I figured that way if any major issue arises from him being there I will have time to sort it out or make other arrangements. She has four cats herself who are indoor/outdoor by way of a cat door. None of them are very stranger cat friendly and I would expect them to fight with him. He will have his own room while he's there and I'm expecting him to have to stay there for most or all of the time with how he's been acting with my cats. I also worry about him getting outside if he figures out the cat door as my mom is terrible at making sure it stays closed if it needs to be.

Overall, I think my mom will do just fine with him as she's had other ferals, but seeing as she is in a wheelchair I am worried that she will have a hard time wrangling and handling him if he is out in the house and not in the mood for being touched. She has been around him at my place for a few days and he didn't take well to her. He ran and hid every time she got near and hissed once. I'm sure it's just a matter of him needing to get used to her, but it's definitely not encouraging.

So, I suppose my question is: What can I do to make his stay there easy and as stress free as possible? Should he even be allowed out in the house or would he be better off by himself?  He will be visited many times a day and have plenty of things to play with/do if he does stay in the room while he's there. Also, any tips as to what my mom could do in the circumstance that he gets out and is unmanageable?

Thanks in advance for any help and thanks again for all the previous support : ) It really has aided me in getting this lovely cat to where he is today and I appreciate it soooo much.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Dooder just keeps on making such wonderful progress.  It takes time for cats to all get along.  You may need to restart introductions and redo them slowly.  The feral boy I brought into the house last year still has some issues with my resident cat and they have been living together for a year.  I did have to redo introductions and it helped alot.

As far as what to do with Dooder while you are on vacation.  I would think it would be very very very stressful for him to travel to your Mom's and be cooped up in a strange place.  He could get out of the room or stuck behind something and not adjust at all.  I think a better solution is to buy or borrow another window air conditioner and leave him home.  You mentioned you didn't want to leave him cooped up in a room all week, but he will be/need to be cooped up in a room at your Mom's.  Maybe you can borrow and AC unit from a friend for the week.  He may not be happy in the room all week, but I do believe a car ride and then a strange location will be just awful for him.  What if he got stuck somewhere at your Mom's or even worse if he got outside? 

Last summer when we were gone for 5 days, I had to leave my feral in his room alone with only one visit for food each day.  I did have AC, but he was better off in his familiar surroundings.  He did just fine.  He was probably bored, but better than running loose or stressed somewhere else.  He was quite upset each day when the cat sitter came to feed him.  He would hide immediately and not come out until she was gone.  Yet he was safe.

You know Dooder best.  If you think he would be ok then give it a try.  Just know that most ferals hate change and stress is very hard on them. 

 

[buffy2011]

Just a thought but maybe if you took the kitten also and they both were at your moms it wouldn't be so strange, they could be together.  Make sure you have all his toys and blankets too so everything is familiar. Also make sure there is no way they can get hurt or caught under something. I used a big piece of cardboard when I was opening the door where my feral was, just to make sure he wasn't close and then I got in and closed the door right away. Just an idea. If you can get them both into the room without seeing the other cats maybe that would work too. Dooder is use to going to the vets so maybe traveling a little won't be so bad. Like the other person said you know best. 

 

[ngeew18]

Hi. How old do you think the feral cat before you have it nuetered/spay??

I have a feral cat too which I wanted to spay. But I think she's already 5-6 years old? Is this still safe for her since I believe she's gonna enter senior years now?

 

[ondine]

Ngeew18 - cats continue to have kittens all their lives, so spaying this kitty is a really good idea.  Thank you for worrying about her!

 

[ngeew18]

Ngeew18 - cats continue to have kittens all their lives, so spaying this kitty is a really good idea.  Thank you for worrying about her!

Ic.. Thank you. I will have her be spayed this week now.

 

[catb8]

 
Dooder just keeps on making such wonderful progress.  It takes time for cats to all get along.  You may need to restart introductions and redo them slowly.  The feral boy I brought into the house last year still has some issues with my resident cat and they have been living together for a year.  I did have to redo introductions and it helped alot.

As far as what to do with Dooder while you are on vacation.  I would think it would be very very very stressful for him to travel to your Mom's and be cooped up in a strange place.  He could get out of the room or stuck behind something and not adjust at all.  I think a better solution is to buy or borrow another window air conditioner and leave him home.  You mentioned you didn't want to leave him cooped up in a room all week, but he will be/need to be cooped up in a room at your Mom's.  Maybe you can borrow and AC unit from a friend for the week.  He may not be happy in the room all week, but I do believe a car ride and then a strange location will be just awful for him.  What if he got stuck somewhere at your Mom's or even worse if he got outside? 

Last summer when we were gone for 5 days, I had to leave my feral in his room alone with only one visit for food each day.  I did have AC, but he was better off in his familiar surroundings.  He did just fine.  He was probably bored, but better than running loose or stressed somewhere else.  He was quite upset each day when the cat sitter came to feed him.  He would hide immediately and not come out until she was gone.  Yet he was safe.

You know Dooder best.  If you think he would be ok then give it a try.  Just know that most ferals hate change and stress is very hard on them. 

I can definitely understand where you're coming from. In an ideal world I would get a window A/C unit and just have him stay here, but I've spent most of my savings on this vacation and haven't had any luck as far as finding one to borrow one goes. The way I'm looking at it, he knows my mom's house and the area around it, so out of the few options I have I figure my mom's place will be the least stressful and if he does manage to get outside he will at least know where he is. On top of that, we will be moving into a new and smaller apartment at the end of the summer and really cannot take him with us. Three cats in a loft style apartment is just more than I can manage, especially when they don't get along. Since we need somewhere for him to go during our vacation and seeing as he would be going to my mom's in a couple months regardless, I think it would just be best to get the move out of the way now and have this change be permenate.

After a lot of planning we've come up with a fairly full proof set up to keep him contained. The bedroom he is going to be staying in will have a glass door, so my mom will be able to see where he is before entering the room, and also so he can safely meet the other cats in the house. I've told her that when she does go in and out of the room she needs to close all doors in the house, including the cat door to the outside. That way if he does get out there will be very little room for him to hide. She won't be taking her wheelchair with her into the room, so he won't have the opportunity to run underneath it and get out (she's able to walk short distances, so this shouldn't be an issue). We have also found a pretty good way to corral him when he is not allowing to be touched. He is very frightened by moving blankets, towels, and other large pieces of fabric (I think he sees them as scary creatures), so if you hold a blanket or towel in front of you, you can pretty easily heard him where ever you need. I've had to do this a few times when he has decided he doesn't want to go to bed for the night and gets unmanageable and it works very well.

As far as the stress of the trip and new surroundings goes...I do think that it will tough on him at first, but so far he has been extremely adaptable, so I think he will be okay. Like I said earlier, he will (hopefully) know where he is and (hopefully) be less confused and scared as a result. I am not only bringing all of his blankets, hidey boxes, and everything else, but his kitten friend, Tiny. They have bonded very closely and, honestly, may end up staying together from here on out. In addition to all that, I will be there for five days before we actually leave for vacation, so if things just absolutely aren't going to work out with him staying there I'll have time to make other arrangements. Not only that but it will give me time to show my mom how to care for and deal with him.

I don't mean to come off as unappreciative of the concerns you have. I really do get what you're saying it and agree that if he didn't have to be moved right now, it would be better. On the other hand, I do know that the longer he stays here and the more attached to me he gets the harder it will be to move him when we have to move. It'll be a rough couple weeks, I'm sure, but it has to happen eventually. I have a decent amount of faith in my mom and as she's dealt with and socialized ferals before I hope she will be able to win him over. We'll never know until we try though, so I guess here it goes. I can't say I'm not nervous about it. I love him to death and would be devastated if something where to happen to him, but am trying to stay positive. I'm leaving with him and the kitten tonight (figured it would be better to go at night. less traffic and bright lights.) and I will be with them until Tuesday night. I'll definitely give an update before I leave and let you know how things are going. Keep us in your thoughts for sure : )

 
Just a thought but maybe if you took the kitten also and they both were at your moms it wouldn't be so strange, they could be together.  Make sure you have all his toys and blankets too so everything is familiar. Also make sure there is no way they can get hurt or caught under something. I used a big piece of cardboard when I was opening the door where my feral was, just to make sure he wasn't close and then I got in and closed the door right away. Just an idea. If you can get them both into the room without seeing the other cats maybe that would work too. Dooder is use to going to the vets so maybe traveling a little won't be so bad. Like the other person said you know best. 

You read my mind! All of his favorite things, including the kitten, will being coming will him to make the move as easy as possible. I'll mention the cardboard idea to my mom. I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that before actually. I don't really have an issue with keeping him from running out as I just put my foot in the crack of the door and push him away if he happens to be there, but since she can't do that using some cardboard may help a lot. He has handled traveling very well so far, you're right. Hopefully that is the case this time as well. Thanks for the advice!

Hi. How old do you think the feral cat before you have it nuetered/spay??

I have a feral cat too which I wanted to spay. But I think she's already 5-6 years old? Is this still safe for her since I believe she's gonna enter senior years now?

Yes, it is definitely safe at that age. She's still in her prime and should do just fine. Dooder is about the same age, and while a neuter surgery is much more simple and less invasive than a spay, he did handle it very well. He was back up and going about his normal business by the end of the day. Just keep in mind that the healing time for a spay surgery is a bit longer than that of a neuter and plan accordingly. Good luck! : )

 

[catb8]

Update! We made it to my mom's and everything is going wonderfully. He and Tiny slept the whole car ride down. Didn't hear a sound out of either of them. We decided to leave him in the bathroom overnight since the bedroom wasn't ready for him. I was expecting him to be terrified when I let him out into the room but that was not the case. He came right out of the carrier, said hi to me, and started purring up a storm. The couple times I checked on him before going to bed he was as happy as could be, so we put Tiny in with him for the night. Neither of them made a peep the whole night.

They both went to my mom's vet this morning, which was productive. It made me decide that I will be finding a new vet back home. Contrary to my vet who said there's nothing to be done about his eye injury, the vet here took a quick look at it and decided that with a fairly simple surgery it can be repaired. Also, Tiny has had some fluid drainage from one ear for a couple weeks which I told my vet about. They said it was likely water in his ear and it would work it's way out. The vet here took one look at his ear (with the naked eye, no scope) and could tell that he has an ear infection. He's on ear drops now : )

After the vet we moved them both into their bedroom and so far it's going well. I think Dooder knows where he is by looking out the windows, and is getting a little antsy, running from one window to the next. Other than that he is as happy as can be. Maybe even happier than when he was at my house. He is greeting both my boyfriend and my mom with little hesitation and even jumped up on my boyfriend's lap.

Needless to say, I am extremely relieved. I was expecting to deal with a terrified and confused cat for the next few days and instead have an even happier one than before. He really is amazingly adaptable. Hoping it stays that way. Fingers crossed.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Such wonderful news!!  How great that the vet thinks he can help!!  Will Dooder remain in indoor only cat? 

 

[ondine]

This is such good news! Thank you for updating us. Dooder is one lucky cat - and so is Tiny.

 

[catb8]

Everything went very well while I was gone. He got along just fine with my mom with the only real issue being upkeep of his eye. I'm not sure if I'm just able to spend more time with him to keep the tears at bay, but by the time we got back, his face was just covered in stains and goop all the way down to his whiskers. He had also developed a pretty bad bout of acne. Other than that he was incredibly well behaved. He even got out of his room a couple times while my mom wasn't paying attention and instead of running amok he simply smelled around and put himself back in his room a few minutes later. I think having a room with multiple windows and a glass door makes him feel much more at ease as he's able to see what's going on around him.

All that being said, because of the state of his eye/tear stains and the acne he came back home with me this weekend. We decided that until he can have the surgery to repair his eyelid it's best he stays with me so I can make sure he stays clean. Luckily, the surgery is relatively cheap, so he will be going back down there this weekend and having it done. He'll come back up with me for aftercare, but go back to my mom once he's healed up. He'll be getting a broken canine removed as well. I'm hoping he handles the back and forth well. So far it hasn't bothered him a bit.

Something that has been going on for awhile but I haven't bothered to bring up since he was going to my mom's...when he is in his room at my place he will cry and cry and cry (for hours sometimes) when he's by himself. He is perfectly content to be in my bedroom by himself though and will sleep through the day with no noise. He also seemed much more content at my mom's. He still cried every so often, but not for long. I would keep him in my bedroom, but it is the worst room in the apartment to keep cool and the other cats really consider that their space. For the first few days he was back I caved in and let him sleep in my room so I didn't have to hear him cry, but I really don't want him to get the idea that he can get his way by doing that. I figured he might feel claustrophobic being in a room with only one window that is very high up. I showed him how to get into the window in his room which seemed to help a little, but if he sees someone/thing outside he starts meowling again. I played talk radio for him last night and that seemed to help also, but he will cry if he hears someone walking past the room still. Does anyone know any ways to deal with this? I don't believe he's doing it for any other reason than loneliness. He stops as soon as someone is in the room with him. He just has too much love to give, I can't keep up with it : \

 
Such wonderful news!!  How great that the vet thinks he can help!!  Will Dooder remain in indoor only cat? 

As far as I'm concerned he will be staying indoors. If not permanently, at least until next summer. My mom is not known for her determination when it comes to keeping cats inside when they need to be though, so there is a definite chance he may get out before then. She just about refuses to close the cat door there and I'm sure if he's out and about in the house he'll figure it out eventually. I have been trying to talk to her about it and have been making progress little by little. Hopefully by the time he is ready to be integrated into her house, she will have some more sense about the matter.

 

[buffy2011]

I'm sure he is crying because he is lonely. My feral did that for a while. Now she is fine. I have been leaving the door open to the bathroom where she is so she can see out or even come out if she wants too. But she is a little afraid of one of my other cats.  As for your mother letting this cat outside, my opinion I wouldn't do it. Look what this poor thing has gone threw already. This could happen again. Could you possibly find it another home if you can't keep it? Its been threw so much and still is going threw things, it just needs someone to pay alot of attention to it.  Alot of one on one, which I know is hard if you have other cats. Believe me I go threw this everyday with my three. Well good luck with whatever you decide and also on his surgery.