Feline Vasectomy

[catvas]

Just had a quick look and didn't find much on STDs in cats.

FIV is mostly transmitted through bites according to the Cornell Feline Health Center but sexual contact is not a major means of spreading FIV. That makes sense because I know of neutered indoor cats who have contracted the disease.

The CFHC say that cat-to-cat transfer of the leukemia virus may occur from a bite wound, during mutual grooming, and (though rarely) through the shared use of litter boxes and feeding dishes. Sexual contact is not even mentioned in the article.

One disease that I suspect is common in my area is Herpes, about which pets webmd says: The most common way for the herpes virus to spread is through contact with discharge from an infected cat’s eyes, mouth or nose. Cats can catch this virus by sharing litter boxes, food and water dishes with an infected cat, as well as by mutual grooming. An infected pregnant cat might also pass the virus on to kittens who are still in the womb. Because the virus is highly contagious, it is common in catteries, shelters and multi-cat households.

These articles don't site studies, but assuming for lack of better info that they are correct, any cats that are in contact with other cats are at risk, and what many people refer to as 'STDs' are actually much more likely to be contracted through non-sexual contact.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Just had a quick look and didn't find much on STDs in cats.
FIV is mostly transmitted through bites according to the Cornell Feline Health Center but sexual contact is not a major means of spreading FIV. That makes sense because I know of neutered indoor cats who have contracted the disease.
The CFHC say that cat-to-cat transfer of the leukemia virus may occur from a bite wound, during mutual grooming, and (though rarely) through the shared use of litter boxes and feeding dishes. Sexual contact is not even mentioned in the article.
One disease that I suspect is common in my area is Herpes, about which pets webmd says: The most common way for the herpes virus to spread is through contact with discharge from an infected cat’s eyes, mouth or nose. Cats can catch this virus by sharing litter boxes, food and water dishes with an infected cat, as well as by mutual grooming. An infected pregnant cat might also pass the virus on to kittens who are still in the womb. Because the virus is highly contagious, it is common in catteries, shelters and multi-cat households.
These articles don't site studies, but assuming for lack of better info that they are correct, any cats that are in contact with other cats are at risk, and what many people refer to as 'STDs' are actually much more likely to be contracted through non-sexual contact.

Disease spreads through sex often when the male bites the female. It's not uncommon.

 

[catvas]

Yes, this is true. I think it's difficult to assess quality of life for another species, especially when it's not a case of injury or major medical issues. Mating and interacting with members of the opposite sex is an important part of social life for mammals, and I think removing someone else's sexual organs should be better researched and considered than it is in the case of cats, for the medical reasons mentioned earlier in the thread. My cats are effectively feral cats that are used to me, and although I like and respect them and enjoy sharing my life with them, they are free individuals and part of the feral/stray population and I also want to contribute inasmuch as possible to the control of that population in my area. I never wanted a cat but couldn't help but take mine in when I saw he wouldn't survive otherwise. Now I have, I feel obligated to research their best interests, both on an individual and population level.  I'm disappointed by the lack of scientific information available on the habits of cats, whether feral or tame.

Another question I have about something that comes up very often: where is the proof that female cats' quality of life is drastically reduced by mating? I understand it's widely assumed the penal spines of males inflict pain; that said females will mate with multiple males when in heat, even though one would do the job if they wanted to minimize the discomfort. Also, I've heard many people say that all the yowling and screaming is when the male withdraws the penis, but that is not what I've observed from the documentaries I've watched up to now on cats. It seems that no studies have established just how uncomfortable/painful mating might be (I have no idea how you would do that or if it's possible), but that it is human emotions and assumptions that have spread this belief among the general population. Any thoughts?

 

[catvas]

Disease spreads through sex often when the male bites the female. It's not uncommon.

Sorry but this seems like an unsubstantiated claim. Are there studies? What's the percentage likelihood of a sex bite breaking the skin and/or spreading disease? Anyway like I said before it would be nice to know the prevalence of these diseases in the local population, both pet and feral.

 

[Willowy]

It's true that there aren't a lot of studies about all this kind of stuff. Some sources I found said that FeLV is transmitted "through exchange of bodily fluids---bites, sexual contact, etc.". Which makes sense, I think; why wouldn't it be transmitted sexually if it can be transmitted by other bodily fluids? In the US most pet owners spay/neuter so I think they've kind of neglected studies on intact cats.

I do know that purebred cat breeders were having a terrible time with FeLV in the 1980s, I always figured it was transmitted sexually since a breeder's cats probably aren't biting each other. Casual contact transmission is rare and takes a long time. There's also brucellosis, I think that's pretty common in most animals. Farmers have a lot of trouble with it in cows

 

[catvas]

Some sources I found said that FeLV is transmitted "through exchange of bodily fluids---bites, sexual contact, etc.". Which makes sense, I think; why wouldn't it be transmitted sexually if it can be transmitted by other bodily fluids?

Some diseases are transmitted very easily by any bodily fluids, others by specific types, such as saliva or genital fluids.  Talking peanut claims the 'sexual contact' that causes the spread is actually the biting rather than genital contact.  I wish I had the means to order up some studies!

I always figured it was transmitted sexually since a breeder's cats probably aren't biting each other.

So would you disagree with talking peanut that biting during sex is a major cause of disease spread?

Brucellosis has not been observed in cats.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Some sources I found said that FeLV is transmitted "through exchange of bodily fluids---bites, sexual contact, etc.". Which makes sense, I think; why wouldn't it be transmitted sexually if it can be transmitted by other bodily fluids?
Some diseases are transmitted very easily by any bodily fluids, others by specific types, such as saliva or genital fluids.  Talking peanut claims the 'sexual contact' that causes the spread is actually the biting rather than genital contact.  I wish I had the means to order up some studies!

I always figured it was transmitted sexually since a breeder's cats probably aren't biting each other.
So would you disagree with talking peanut that biting during sex is a major cause of disease spread?

Brucellosis has not been observed in cats.

I think it's any kind of roughness. So, an especially rough mating that could cause abrasions in the genital region, or biting.

I would imagine that this is less of an issue with breeders.

 

[Willowy]

I would imagine that this is less of an issue with breeders.

Now, yes. Back in the 1980s FeLV was just rampant, wiping out breeding stock all over. It was new then; I suppose now we know how it's spread and have tests and vaccines. But if you read some cat breeding books written back then, the tone can get kind of hysterical.

Catvas---do you live in the US? If so, how did you find a vet who does vasectomies and partial spays?

 

[catvas]

It was my understanding that any mating resulted in vaginal abrasions, which is what stimulates ovulation. That would probably suffice for exchange of bodily fluids to pass on infection.  The rate of infection when abrasion does occur would be a good thing to know, but probably not available yet.

Why is roughness less of an issue with breeders?

 

[catvas]

I live in Ireland, and it was very difficult to find someone, I had to call about 10 vets, and go in to a few to explain what I wanted and why.  All refused for the usual, non-logical reasons.  I finally found one and only one who agreed to give it a try.  They hadn't done it before (none of them have, generally speaking, as it's not taught in vet school). The one who did it said he neuters lots of ferals, so he would look at where the vas deferens was while he was neutering ferals and try it. It worked out really well, Cat looks and acts like an intact tom and recovered in no time after surgery.  Same was true of his mother, though she was pregnant at the time and she's retained a bit of a belly since, but acts normal and healthy.

 

[catvas]

I live in Ireland, and it was very difficult to find someone, I had to call about 10 vets, and go in to a few to explain what I wanted and why.  All refused for the usual, non-logical reasons.  I finally found one and only one who agreed to give it a try.  They hadn't done it before (none of them have, generally speaking, as it's not taught in vet school). The one who did it said he neuters lots of ferals, so he would look at where the vas deferens was while he was neutering ferals and try it. It worked out really well, Cat looks and acts like an intact tom and recovered in no time after surgery.  Same was true of his mother, though she was pregnant at the time and she's retained a bit of a belly since, but acts normal and healthy.

 

[catvas]

Sorry for the double post.  Also they did the surgery for the same price as a normal neuter/spay.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Now, yes. Back in the 1980s FeLV was just rampant, wiping out breeding stock all over. It was new then; I suppose now we know how it's spread and have tests and vaccines. But if you read some cat breeding books written back then, the tone can get kind of hysterical.

Catvas---do you live in the US? If so, how did you find a vet who does vasectomies and partial spays?

I meant the rough matings.

 

[talkingpeanut]

It was my understanding that any mating resulted in vaginal abrasions, which is what stimulates ovulation. That would probably suffice for exchange of bodily fluids to pass on infection.  The rate of infection when abrasion does occur would be a good thing to know, but probably not available yet.

Why is roughness less of an issue with breeders?

I would imagine that a stud who was beating up females wouldn't be used repeatedly.

 

[catvas]

I would imagine that a stud who was beating up females wouldn't be used repeatedly.

This is false and emotionally charged. Please only post researched or at least plausible comments. Thank you.

From Feral Cats: An Overview, available online:

The frequency of FIV, FeLV and other infectious diseases in feral cat populations is similar to or lower than that of owned-cat populations (Levy and Crawford 2004; Nutter et al. 2004a). Because the frequency of these diseases is so low and the diseases are not spread uniformly throughout the feral cat population, testing a few cats or a small randomly selected number of cats is unlikely to provide accurate information about the general cat population in the community. Limited testing may prove helpful in specific colonies where there is a high suspicion of disease, particularly of feline leukemia. Animals who test positive for FeLV present another set of problems: for some, euthanasia of positive animals is not acceptable unless the cat is very ill; for others who know that FeLV generally causes a slow death within a few years, euthanasia is a humane option.
FIV is spread through the bite of an infected cat. This disease is much more common in male cats than in females because intact males do most of the fighting.  Many FIV-positive cats will live for many years without any clinical problems, and it is less clear that euthanasia will prevent obvious suffering in the near future.
FeLV is spread from mother to kittens and by prolonged close contact between cats. By spaying the mother cats, disease transmission to kittens is eliminated. FeLV is not a highly contagious disease, and many cats who are exposed will never contract it. By putting the money saved by not testing into spaying more female cats, organizations may prevent many more cases of FeLV.

 

[Willowy]

I'm not sure why you would say that stating that breeders likely wouldn't use a stud who is rough with the queens is "false and emotionally charged". That just seems like a non-sequitur :dk:.

I'm also not sure what point you're trying to make. You keep posting things saying that intact toms are more likely to contract disease, etc., and vasectomized toms are essentially intact, just sterile. So I don't understand what you're getting at.

I do think vasectomy could be a good option for ferals or farm cats, though I would be reluctant to recommend it to indoor pet owners due to the risk of spraying, or to owners of outdoor city cats because of the population density and risk of injuries due to fighting, and the roaming issue (most people want to keep their pets close to home). But if it works for you, great.

 

[catvas]

Here's my cat and his new kitten friend.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Sorry!  I didn't mean to offend, I just get frustrated when people say things without citing studies substantiating their claims.

I think 'beating up' is emotionally charged, because it equates little-understood cat behaviour to our own human behaviour, which we are in a much better position to understand and judge. I also think that breeders want to produce healthy and good-looking kittens to sell, as long as the mating behaviour doesn't affect a queen's ability to give birth, it stands to reason a stud would be valued for his genes and ability to produce the desired offspring rather than any human-imposed 'gentleness' during mating. Just my opinion.

If you read my citation, it says ferals have less FeLV, and it seems to me that the fact that this study says mostly males have FIV is relevant because Talking Peanut says biting during mating is a huge factor in FIV transmission-from males to females. This is the exact quote: 'Disease spreads through sex often when the male bites the female. It's not uncommon.' Again this was an unresearched comment, and my research suggests the opposite is true, that's why it seemed relevant to me. 

I just value researched and/or well-thought-out comments, I don't see the point of repeating the not-necessarily-true rumours that abound on the subject.  All this was discussed earlier in the thread, notably by NibblerandCo and StephenQ.

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• catvas
• Dec 13, 2016

Here's my cat and his new kitten friend.

I assure you I am not emotionally charged. I am simply wondering why a breeder would frequent a stud who was known to be rough when mating. Surely there would be others that didn't leave bite marks, etc.

 

[hbunny]

I personally think "beating up" is a good description of it.  I personally witnessed 3 females come out of matings this past summer bloodied and mauled in my neighborhood.  One of the females I managed to capture and take for veterinary treatment, to somewhere in the tune of $450.  She had one ear that had to be partially removed due to the tom chewing it, a large abscess that had to be drained, a laceration to her shoulder requiring scraping and two stitches, IV antibiotics, and then I had her spayed while she was in so the poor thing wouldn't have to endure that ever again.  Of course she thanked me by never letting me get near her again, but still.  She only approaches the food after I have gone in the house now.  I witnessed this across the field.  She tried repeatedly to escape the tom, while he was chasing her and jumping on her.  She made it back to our yard about an hour afterwards, and she walked to our porch and laid down and I got a good look at her.  It was very bad.  It took me until the next day to trap her, and by then the abscess had formed.

I also witnessed two other females go through the same sort of injuries, but unfortunately, I could not get them trapped.

I'm not sure what other terminology to use that wouldn't be "emotionally charged".  I can definitely tell you when I saw that small female hurt I was emotionally charged.  My checking account was emotionally charged after that bill!!!

I understand the necessity of citing studies to validate a claim---otherwise it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.  But then again, this isn't normally a forum where scientists debate, it is where cat lovers come to discuss things and get opinions--discuss--not debate or argue or get testy.  I do have issues with taking all studies as "gospel".  Studies are just that--studies, and are often infused with the opinions of several like-minded doctorate students or graduates trying to add a published study to their CV, or a professional trying to add validity to their status to attain higher notoriety or a better teaching position.  Sometimes, luckily, we are blessed to have studies done by professionals who have devoted their life to a subject matter and truly research to further knowledge, but honestly just in my opinion, I think those folks are few and far between.

I try to take all studies as just that--reports of probable outcomes in a particular, usually controlled or at least unchanging, environment.  Most studies you see revolve around fairly unchanging environments, with a small sampling of subjects that do not reflect the possibilities of outcomes in other variables.  I have yet to find one that I would hold as truth for all and force-feed to nonbelievers.

 

[hbunny]

And, I'm a firm believer in you have to do what is best for you, your cat, your situation.  No judgements