Feeding kitten both raw and canned: Loose stools?

[cris-e]

Hi!! I'm a first-time cat owner and my kitten Figaro is 7 weeks old. We've been feeding him four meals a day: two raw meat and organ meals and two canned meals, as well as cat milk replacer in the morning and at night. I have two concerns. First of all, his stools are kind of loose. It's not diarrhea, but it's definitely not solid either. Is this normal for a kitten who's transitioning to a new type of food? Before leaving his mother (a week ago) he was still drinking some mother's milk, and the family he was with was giving him table scraps and dry kibble.

Secondly, he seems to always be hungry. Sometimes when he finishes his meals, he'll start meowing for more, and if he's in the kitchen and someone's preparing food, he'll meow and beg. We're giving him portions of 10 and 15g, so the meals add up to around 55 to 60g of food a day, which according to my vet (and what I've read online), should be enough for his 550g self.

Any suggestions? Thanks for any input!!!

 

[carolina]

Hi Chris-E
What do you mean by raw and organ meals? are you balancing the organs to the right quantity? How much organs? (and what organs?) Also, what about the bones - are you feeding bones? How are you feeding the Calcium?

Soft poop usually will mean two things:not enough Calcium/bones, or too much organs.............

 

[cris-e]

Hi Carolina!! We bought a whole chicken and made a mix of the muscle meat, liver, heart, and a few other organs. What proportion do you suggest? Maybe we've been putting in two many organs and not enough muscle meat, could that be the issue? Also, are lungs OK? I live in Peru and some people (not me :S lol.) eat lungs here, but we weren't sure if that would be alright for our kitten. Thanks!!!

 

[carolina]

Hi Carolina!! We bought a whole chicken and made a mix of the muscle meat, liver, heart, and a few other organs. What proportion do you suggest? Maybe we've been putting in two many organs and not enough muscle meat, could that be the issue? Also, are lungs OK? I live in Peru and some people (not me :S lol.) eat lungs here, but we weren't sure if that would be alright for our kitten. Thanks!!!

Lungs are considered muscle meat, and so is heart.
Liver is supposed to be only 5% of the weight (NOT more!) and the other five can be other secreting organ - like pancreas, kidney, brain, eyes, etc.

You HAVE to feed bones, for the Calcium - I prefer to feed crushed eggshells instead. You can do it at home..... It is very easy, and cheap, but you have to balance the phosphorous on the meat with Calcium - either with bone, or with other source of Ca. I choose eggshells.
Bones is up to 10% of the diet.
So, 80% muscle meat, 5% liver, 5% other secreting organ, and up to 10% bones. (or substitute for eggshells)

To make the eggshells at home, get a bunch of eggs, remove the inner membrane - wash the shells, and remove the inner membranes. Then bake on the oven at 350F for about 30 min. Let cool it down and put it into a a little blender, food processor, or crush it in a mortar into a fine powder.

The measurements are:
1/32 Tsp per ounce of meat. So, if you feed 1/2 ounce of food, you put 1/64 TSP. I have these tiny little spoons..... You have to add this powder every time you feed, or add the powder and freeze.
Also, if you are making the food ground, please make sure to add taurine powder.....

EDIT - I Edited the Calcium quantities -

 

[carolina]

By the way, I should posted this thread - there is a LOT of help/information for you here!!!
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

 

[ldg]

Well, that sounds like it should be enough food, but he IS a wee little growing kitty! My understanding is that when they're that age, you should feed them as much as they want to eat - because he's not going to STAY 550g. :lol3: I'd either feed him more at the meals you give him, or feed him another meal or two.

As to the loose stools, I think Carolina covered it. It sounds like you fed the chicken without the bones? My guess is that the problem is not enough calcium then. :nod: Cats don't need an absolute amount of calcium, but they need a proper balance of Calcium and Phosphorus. :nod: Meat is high in phosphorus, but has almost no calcium. And while the organs (secreting organs like liver, kidney, spleen) are VERY nutritious, they need to be fed in the right proportions. Thus the guidelines for meat/bones/organs that Carolina posted. :nod:

Both Carolina and I use eggshell instead of bones. Sorry - we talk pounds and ounces, but you should be able to do the conversion to grams and kg without too much trouble. I suspect that if you get that calcium in there, that will resolve the problem.

 

[cris-e]

Thank you so much Carolina!!!! That's super helpful, especially the eggshell idea because we don't have a grinder at home. Also, do you add any extra suplemments? I've read various things online that talk about adding supplements, specifically vitamin E and B-50, as well as other things like salmon oil that I'm not sure I'll be able to find here in Peru. Still, even without all of these extras I think it's still better to feed raw (as well as canned) than to just go for dry kibble, right? Especially considering the limited variety of pet food brands we have here... mostly Purina, Whiskas, Science Diet, etc.

 

[cris-e]

Great LDG!!! Thanks so much to both of you!!! (Figaro says thanks as well )

 

[ldg]

Jumping in here. :lol3: Yes, I think feeding raw is much healthier, even without additional supplements. :nod: A lot of people that feed "prey model raw" don't use any supplements (other than providing egg yolk and sardines). :nod:

Because cats really need the taurine, if you'll be freezing the food you make, it's a good idea IF YOU CAN, to provide something like 200mg of taurine to one meal a day. The fresh meat, especially the hearts and other secreting organs, are very high in taurine, so it's probably not an issue, even if you do freeze the food.

And I don't know about the meat there, but being mostly factory farmed meat up here, it tends to be low in omega 3s. That's why people add salmon oil. But what you can do instead of that is just feed a raw egg yolk twice a week - or just mix it into the food. :nod: If you have canned sardines available (in water, no salt), you can also feed one sardine once or twice a week.

 

[carolina]

Chris E - I edited the Ca Quantities.... sorry.... I have these tiny itty bitty spoons..... maybe you can buy them from Amazon, they can deliver them there: Mini Measuring Spoons You will use the Smidgen and the Drop when feeding individual meals.

 

[ldg]

To make the eggshells at home, get a bunch of eggs, remove the inner membrane - wash the shells, and remove the inner membranes. Then bake on the oven at 350F for about 30 min. Let cool it down and put it into a a little blender, food processor, or crush it in a mortar into a fine powder.
The measurements are:
1/32 Tsp per ounce of meat. So, if you feed 1/2 ounce of food, you put 1/64 TSP. I have these tiny little spoons..... You have to add this powder every time you feed, or add the powder and freeze.
Also, if you are making the food ground, please make sure to add taurine powder.....
EDIT - I Edited the Calcium quantities -

Just making sure you caught this. :nod: If you're going to be making batches of food, the amount is 1/2 teaspoon of eggshell powder per pound of food. That works out to, as Carolina says, 1/32 teaspoon per ounce, 1/64 teaspoon per half ounce.

 

[cris-e]

I can't thank both of you enough!!! My mom and I were really unsure about the proportions, so this information was perfect. Also, since both of you seem to be pretty knowledgable on raw feeding, I was wondering if you could tell me if the following are true: 1) raw fish is unhealthy for cats, and 2) before feeding, raw meat always needs to be frozen and then defrosted to kill off parasites. Do you know if these are facts or myths? Thanks!!!

 

[otto]

Loose stools and hunger can indicate parasites. Most kittens need to be de-wormed. I'd get him to the vet for a check up, weight and to be safely de-wormed.

 

[cris-e]

Hi Otto!! I would have thought the same, but he had his check-up four days ago and was de-wormed then, so I think it's probably the food preparation, and the hunger is probably about the portion size. I'm gonna wait a couple days and see if the new food (with the right proportions) helps, and if not I'll give my vet a call.

 

[otto]

I'm glad to know he's been to the vet and he had a deworming. Depending on how long loose stool has been going on, parasites, and the de-worming meds could have been part of the problem. I hope it all clears up now and he adjusts to his healthy diet.

I didn't see this mentioned here, I'd get him on a probiotic, too. I like Proviable DC, if you can get it. There are other choices, if you can't.

 

[ldg]

otto, good point on the parasites. :nod: Glad that was addressed.

I can't thank both of you enough!!! My mom and I were really unsure about the proportions, so this information was perfect. Also, since both of you seem to be pretty knowledgable on raw feeding, I was wondering if you could tell me if the following are true: 1) raw fish is unhealthy for cats, and 2) before feeding, raw meat always needs to be frozen and then defrosted to kill off parasites. Do you know if these are facts or myths? Thanks!!!

Here is information on the question about fish: http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-fish-is-dangerous-for-cats/

As to freezing, the freezers we have at home do not go to temperatures low enough for that to be a factor. There are some parasites that are killed by being frozen at very, very low temperatures if frozen for something like 21 days. I don't remember what they are, because it's moot - has to be something like 40 degrees celcius (or more?), not a temp our home freezers reach.

 

[cris-e]

Great, thanks!! I'll try and see what supplements, probiotics and taurine powder I can find, and if they're American brands I'll post them here to get your opinion. As to adding Vitamin E... is this something I can buy at any pharmacy (according to the amount of milligrams) or is this a special pet-specific supplement?

Going back to the calcium issue... my mom was asking the butcher at the market if he could grind bone for us, and he sold her something called "aserrín de hueso", which would roughly translate to "bone sawdust". I was expecting to see some sort of powder-type thing, but it looks pretty much like ground beef to be honest!!! With some white bits in it of course. Any idea what that might be and if I should add that to the mix?

Sorry to be asking so many questions!!! I don't know ANYONE here who feeds raw so I'm totally lost!!! Actually, when friends or family are over when I feed my kitten they seem kind of horrified and free to criticize

I have no intention of telling other people what they should be feeding their pets, but unfortunately it looks like hearing others' opinions comes with the territory of going against the mainstream...