fattening a healthy old cat

[doug36]

 I think you put your vet on such high pedestal and everything that she says is correct. They make mistakes too you know.

That's fair. I think her advantage is that I can see her diplomas on the wall! They make a pretty good pedestal.

 Your vet is wrong to say that dry food cleans their teeth.

I'm not sure if she was saying that dry food does what a real tooth cleaning would do. Probably not. But I'm sure that at least for the molars it knocks off food that would otherwise be stuck to it. I can look in his mouth after he eats wet food, and see pieces of it clinging to the teeth. Can't see that after he eats dry food. That's just a fact.

 

[aoi chan]

I'm just saying that it's okay to question your vet and not agree with everything they say. At the end of the day it's your cat and you know your cat the best and what his needs are. To me the diplomas means nothing if it's not being applied.

Hope you find the reason to your cats' weight loss. I don't have much more advice to give.

 

[doug36]

Yep, I understand. And thanks, this is very helpful.

 

[peaches08]

 
That's what I pay my vet to assess.

Try chomping on something harder (and more nutritious) than potato chips. As I said, I can hear it being chewed. So at least in my cat, there is indeed some abrasive action going on. Vets sell teeth cleaning, and when my vet tells me that dry food will help prevent what I'd pay her to do, I take that seriously.

Well, again, the vet isn't advising meds without having an understanding of the diet. I never said she was.

Well, maybe she can figure out what will best help your cat. Good luck!

 

[chwx]

That's fair. I think her advantage is that I can see her diplomas on the wall! They make a pretty good pedestal.

Just remember, someone in her class finished with the lowest grades and it could have been her. If I may, what makes your vet right about diet over another vet who does NOT believe kibble has any use in a feline (or canine) diet whatsoever? Is it because your vets ideas are more convenient for you? I mean kuddos on the 17 year old but the fact your senior male is ok on kibble is LUCK. For your one lucky story, dozens of members here can tell you their UNlucky ones that came from eating an inappropriate diet of all kibble.

It's like the worlds oldest goldfish who was extremely stunted and even deformed due to being kept in a bowl it's entire life. (Almost 40 years if I remember correctly) Add to that, he was fed fish flakes which are NOT good for Goldfish due to their super short digestive tract and the air they gulp up when eating the flakes. So a poor diet as well as a habitat that is the equivalent of you living in a cardboard box and never being let out. These conditions would normally kill a Goldfish in days, weeks, months...Maybe 2-3 years if you get that lucky. Yet this Goldfish set out for a world record! Just because they lucked out with a genetically superior Goldfish doesn't mean I'm going to change my thinking of 10 gallons per inch for just a single Goldfish, 20 gallons/inch for pond varieties or offer them fish flakes to eat. Just like I won't change my feelings about variety and keeping kibble to a minimum just because I've seen other cats and dogs live long lives on kibble only. Because even through their luck, too many others die tragic, young deaths riddled with problems from an inappropriate (Dry kibble only) diet. I also will take my cats soft, fluffy coats over the coat of a kibble fed cat (Especially a low quality kibble) where the hair separates in clumps and the back is a grease slick! Yuck. Who wants to bury their face into that?!

A good relationship with your vet is great but don't be afraid to have an independent mind and educate yourself. I rushed my dog to the vet at 3am when she was 10 years old and told him it seemed like pyometra. He LAUGHED in my face and didn't agree despite the fact she was intact and an older female, perfect candidate for pyo! I got so frustrated with him not wanting to do xrays and running me a bill up in other ways that I walked out. 8am I was at my normal vet and said once again 'I think it's pyometra'. She took an xrays and confirmed it was indeed pyometra. Within 15min, my dog was on the table having emergency surgery to save her life from the massive infection going on in her uterus. Had I let the other vet keep her who refused to just DO AN XRAY TO CHECK, she would have died. Her uterus was on the verge of busting and if it did, we couldn't have saved her. Moral of the story? A degree doesn't make you an expert and a lack of one doesn't mean you can't educate yourself.

 

[doug36]

Let me be brief. I have a good vet. She is well trained and highly recommended. That being the case, I don't really need to come here at all, since I have no idea what training you good folks have. But I like to get ideas. It's when the ideas devolve into "you know, you shouldn't trust your vet", from anonymous folks that things get a bit wacky. If you all can make good cases (research papers, etc.) for why my vet might be wrong, I'll bring those reasons up with her. But I haven't heard that yet. Just remember, you may have never gone near a veterinary school, much less gotten bad grades there. I don't hold that against you, but baseless arguments like these really just come across as hot air. You're exactly right that one should not hesitate to have an independent mind and educate oneself. That's where ideas are important.

The right way to make a point would be something like, "You know, you really should check again wit your vet abut this, because I've heard otherwise, and here's the source." I'd consider that a constructive argument that is truly educational.

 

[peaches08]

 
Let me be brief. I have a good vet. She is well trained and highly recommended. That being the case, I don't really need to come here at all, since I have no idea what training you good folks have. But I like to get ideas. It's when the ideas devolve into "you know, you shouldn't trust your vet", from anonymous folks that things get a bit wacky. If you all can make good cases (research papers, etc.) for why my vet might be wrong, I'll bring those reasons up with her. But I haven't heard that yet. Just remember, you may have never gone near a veterinary school, much less gotten bad grades there. I don't hold that against you, but baseless arguments like these really just come across as hot air. You're exactly right that one should not hesitate to have an independent mind and educate oneself. That's where ideas are important.

The right way to make a point would be something like, "You know, you really should check again wit your vet abut this, because I've heard otherwise, and here's the source." I'd consider that a constructive argument that is truly educational.

Actually, pinkdagger did provide links.  One of those links is owned by a well respected vet.  Have you read the links?

 

[pinkdagger]

I don't think anyone is out to specifically discredit your vet, but maybe people are wary because we've all had our experiences with good and bad vets and if someone doesn't know any different, they could assume their vet has all the answers (and in the vast majority of cases, you're right - you should consult your vet. They are your ultimate go-to, and they know your animal best). Not all vets are up to date on information, not all of them frequently see certain conditions in their practice and so they aren't as well-researched as others - neither of those things makes them a bad vet or anything by any means. I've sent my vets - all of whom have been wonderful, though some more up-to-date than others - researching after appointments so they could call me back a few days later with their academic and published findings. If we can give you, and perhaps even your vet a fresh perspective on what may potentially be a better diet for Marty's needs, I think that's what we're striving after.

If you have had a chance to look at the food breakdowns at Pet Obesity Prevention, that website is run by several vets, and CatInfo is run by a vet a lot of us here have learned from, Dr. Pierson. Her website as a whole addresses the importance of animal-based protein, if you're still interested. I would wholly encourage you to take a peek at them and see what your vet thinks of the info there. I personally don't have any experience with hyperthyroidism, so I haven't added anything beyond my posts above, but with that information in mind, maybe you could work with your vet to find a good balance for your cat based on some of these recommendations.

 

[doug36]

I believe I did say thank you, and said that the information early in the thread was very helpful. Didn't I? I have read the links, and I have no argument with them. The food chart comes form a DVM (who, yes, might have gotten bad grades). The phosphorus content is especially handy, to the extent kidney problems might be involved. The caloric tables are interesting, though it would be more helpful if the canned caloric contents were called out per ounce rather than per can. The caloric content of a can is irrelevant.

 

[pinkdagger]

I use this to calculate the calorie count of wet food: http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html

It shows per ounce and per 100g. It works for wet or dry if you don't want to go skimming the charts for it, and since I rotate wet foods so often, I like to just be able to pull up that link, punch in some numbers, and have my calculations set for that food. Especially since some brands aren't as common and/or don't appear on that list, or recipes may have been changed/updated, sometimes it's just easier for me to do it myself.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

@Doug36: If you are happy with your vet, then this is what matters. No online advice can or should replace the discussions or medical treatment that you have or receive from your vet. This is written in the forum rules. Don't feel that you have to follow what someone is telling you, or apologize for your position.

 

[chwx]

I too firmly believe in being on board with your vet. However, I feel Doug has come here without an open mind since it seems everything gets shot down because it's something different than his vet has said.I have a feeling Doug has been going to this vet for a very long time and therefore feels comfort on what they say but at the same time the vet may not be UTD on newer information that another vet, just as qualified, may have to offer. If you won't take our advice because you don't know our credits then I'd recommend a second opinion from another vet, maybe even a holistic one.

 

[doug36]

 I too firmly believe in being on board with your vet. However, I feel Doug has come here without an open mind since it seems everything gets shot down because it's something different than his vet has said.I have a feeling Doug has been going to this vet for a very long time and therefore feels comfort on what they say but at the same time the vet may not be UTD on newer information that another vet, just as qualified, may have to offer. If you won't take our advice because you don't know our credits then I'd recommend a second opinion from another vet, maybe even a holistic one.

Thank you. That mostly makes sense. I don't think there is a lot of disagreement with my vet here, except maybe the value of kibble. But I'm being told to look up T4 ranges because I shouldn't trust my vet to do that?? Duh? I'm being told that my vet might have gotten bad grades in college?? C'mon folks. Let's chill a bit.

As to a second opinion. I might need one if I didn't trust my vet. But I do, and my intellect doesn't see any faults in what she says.  In the last decade, her advice has been spot on.

But there is some good information here about how to add weight to an elderly cat, and is largely consistent with what my vet says. Now, my vet says that except for the advantages she sees in kibble, wet food is generally better. Yep, we all know that. She says that all wet food is pretty much equivalent. That seems to not quite be the case, though she may well have been referring to supermarket brands.

 

[aoi chan]

There is a reason your cat isn't gaining weight so in order to help as least for me, I need all the details or there isn't a point in helping.

This is your cat that we are talking about right? Is it not your business to know the results of your cats' blood test etc. I always get my cats' test results and ask my vet if something is out of range and ask why is that or is that normal? I don't just listen to the vet who says all the blood test was normal when I haven't seen the results myself.