Fasting

[kittylover23]

I was in the middle of reading the ebook "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" by Kymythy Schultze. It said that dogs and cats over the age of one year should fast for one day a week. What?? I've never heard something like this before. Can someone please clarify this for me, :lol3:?

 

[aeevr]

I'm going to say 'Don't believe everything you read'.

On what does [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Schultze base this claim?[/color]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]If it's the old "i do it with my pets and they're perfectly healthy" line, that's definitely not good enough.[/font]

 

[sugarcatmom]

Cats should not be fasted. Period. Many dogs benefit from the occasional fast but cat's metabolisms don't down-regulate during lack of caloric intake and they'll start to catabolize their own muscle tissue to meet their need for protein. Too many people either think of domestic cats as small lions (who do indeed binge and then fast according to prey availability), or small dogs. And they're neither.... they're their own special little entities. They're adapted for eating many small mice/bird/lizard/insect-sized meals throughout the day.

 

[goingpostal]

I know some raw feeders who do it with dogs, but they feed a large "gorge" meal the day before.  Based on the idea that carnivores don't eat on a schedule and will eat a large meal and then not eat again for awhile.  My ferrets are allowed to eat raw at will and how much they eat varies greatly depending on how much they like it, they might eat 6oz in 12 hours and the next eat 2oz, the dogs and cat are fed on schedules and the same general amount daily. 
 

 

[auntie crazy]

Cats should not be fasted. Period. Many dogs benefit from the occasional fast but cat's metabolisms don't down-regulate during lack of caloric intake and they'll start to catabolize their own muscle tissue to meet their need for protein. ....  They're adapted for eating many small mice/bird/lizard/insect-sized meals throughout the day.

Kymythy wrote that book back in 1998. She doesn't mention fasting at all in her 2008 "Natural Nutrition for Cats: The Path to Purr-fect Health" and I don't believe she currently recommends anyone fast their cat. For all the reasons listed above, I certainly don't!

AC

 

[violet]

This thread reminds me of two very disturbing things I read in a book written by a holistic vet, published, I believe, in 2000. (The Nature of Animal Healing by Martin Goldstein, DVM)

One thing was that he fasted his own cats for one day every week.

The other thing was that,at his clinic  (or hospital), they were treating a little dog (for cancer if I remember correctly) and caused the poor little thing to die by putting him (her?) on a totally unreasonable, prolonged fast that was just not survivable.. I still remember how appalled I was when I read that - in a book by a holistic vet who was supposed to be a great healer.  (Yes, he did admit they had gone too far and what happened was not supposed to have happened - but what good does admitting such lack of judgment really do to anybody......) 

 

[aeevr]

On a similar note...

Let me refer you to my review on amazon of Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3K0U4...157954973X#wasThisHelpful&tag=&tag=thecatsite

Edit: sorry if you're into homeopathy. I should have expressed my skepticism in a nicer way.

 

[cat person]

I was in the middle of reading the ebook "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" by Kymythy Schultze. It said that dogs and cats over the age of one year should fast for one day a week. What?? I've never heard something like this before. Can someone please clarify this for me,

?

What follows, is, just my

and personal experience. So, please do not feel like, I am trying to be pushy or mean you any harm.

I own pure domestic cats, hybrid exotic cats, and have worked with and owned pure exotic cats. Anyway, my F3 Savannah, is two years old. I have had him, for, the past year and seven months. My Savannah, has always, willingly, fasted one day a week, since, I acquired him. The pure exotics, I have owned and worked with, where, fasted one day a week.

My pure domestics, normally, fast themselves, one day a week. If not, once a week, definitely, twice a month. They range in age, from two year to fourteen plus.

These are just some articles, that, may not relate to "domestic cats", but, I still think are interesting. I am just posting, the excerpts, with, the source/website posted as well

.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How Much To Feed: Various field studies have estimated that mature wild tigers and lions consume between 10 and 25 pounds of prey a day. This is between 4 and 7% of their body weight. This is only a theoretical average. In the wild tigers and lions will gorge up to one hundred pounds at one sitting and then fast for many days.. In captivity tigers and lions eat considerably less because of sedentary life styles that burn fewer calories. Captive adult large cats should eat between 4 and 6% of their body weight or between 9-18 pounds of chunk meat when fed five days a week. Because temperature, habitats and exercise differ at every facility, they should be fed no more than the minimum amount that keeps them in lean condition. I see much more obesity among captive cats than excessive thinness. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Source: http://www.2ndchance.info/bigcatdiet.htm[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Diet Requirements: Another very important aspect to diet is fasting. Wild cats do not eat every day. Their digestive tract is not designed to constantly be at work. It is much healthier for them to give it a rest once or twice a week. We fast on Sundays. Some times we fast on both Sunday and Wednesday and simply feed more on the days that they are fed so that the weekly intake is the same.[/font]

Source:http://www.wildaboutcats.org/require.htm

 Exotic cats and Hybrids: In the wild, a cat does not eat everyday. Animals will gorge on food after catching their prey, sometimes having to fast for days before their next kill. At home, we feed our animals daily. Usually in the same spot, at the same time, with the same food. By varying theirs diets, hiding food to hunt, food puzzles, changing feeding locations on a regular basis, as well as changing feeding times will greatly reduce boredom of the same old thing. If you decide to fast a cat for a day, give something for them to chew on like ox tails, beef bones, pelts.

Source: http://www.exotic-cats-and-hybrids.com/exotic-cat-enrichment.html

 

[auntie crazy]

Interesting.

Certainly, big cats have the same digestive physiology - i.e., they're obligate carnivores just like our house cats - but they don't share the same eating behavior patterns.

According to the National Research Council's "Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats", domestic cats do not have the same stomach elasticity as do dogs, and feral house cats must consume between 8-12 small meals in any given 24 hour period to meet their daily energy requirements. Both of those facts would lend support to the theory that neither gorging nor fasting a house cat is a good idea.

Not to mention, eating too much and/or too fast and going too long without food will all cause a cat to regurgitate her meal, as we've seen many times on this board.

While I find the info on the big cats interesting, I don't find it, in this case, applicable to caring for house cats. Just my opinion.

KittyLover, after reading all these response, do you have any thoughts?

AC

 

[Willowy]

I do think it's different, because large cats kill large prey, and have to eat as much as they can before someone else eats it. Small cats kill small prey and usually get several small prey animals every day. They eat them whole (or nearly so), and don't have to worry about somebody else eating it. So I'm not sure that fasting is a natural behavior for small cats. I've certainly never known a domestic cat who willingly fasted--if I'm late with dinner I sure hear about it! :lol3:. Some days they eat less, some days more, but never fully fasting. An interesting concept, but I'm not convinced that it's necessary or healthy for a domestic cat to fast.

 

[aeevr]

yeah, regardless of whether fasting is healthy - I could not imagine going in the kitchen and eating while I was forcing my cats to fast - with them jumping on the table sniffing my food. I'd feel really guilty.

 

[sugarcatmom]

Like Auntie Crazy pointed out, big cats and small cats have many things in common, but they have some key differences and I think we do domestic cats a disservice lumping them all together. 

http://nutrition.advancepetfoods.com.au/default.asp?module=6&page=feedingbehaviour

The ancestor of the domestic cat, small jungle felids, fed predominantly on small mammals and required several meals (kills) each day to satisfy its appetite. Also in contrast to the canids, the small felids are physiologically intolerant of starvation and adapted for a regular food supply. Hence the usual feeding practice that we use with cats; multiple meals or freely available food (ad libitum). 

http://www.nagonline.net/HUSBANDRY/Diets pdf/Zoo Standards for Keeping Small Felids in Captivity.pdf

Larger felids, tigers, lions, leopards, etc., also procure substantially sized prey and typically eat only once in several days; many smaller species take rodents and small birds and must hunt and eat several times per day.

.....

Traditionally, captive felids have been fasted one day per week. While this method may be appropriate for larger cats, it is inappropriate for smaller felids. Fast days are NOT recommended for cats under 10 kg (22 lb).

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

The cat also needs proportionally more protein in its diet compared to other mammals - one reason is that certain liver enzymes that break down proteins are always functional (they are turned "on" and "off" in other animals) and so cats use some energy from protein just to fuel this process.  Other mammals use most of their protein for growth and body maintenance. While an adult dog's protein requirement will drop to about one third of its requirements as a growing puppy, the kitten only needs about one-and-a-half times the protein of an adult cat because the adult level is still relatively high.

......

Because cats have adapted to diets high in protein and low in carbohydrate, continuous activity of amino acid catabolic enzymes provides a continuous source of carbon skeletons for glucose or energy production and nitrogen for synthesis of dispensable amino acids and other nitrogenous compounds. This continuous metabolic state causes the cat to catabolize a substantial amount of protein after each meal, regardless of its protein content. The cat does not have the capability to conserve nitrogen from the body's general nitrogen pool leading to an obligate nitrogen loss and a higher dietary protein requiremerit than omnivores.

 

[feralvr]

Kymythy wrote that book back in 1998. She doesn't mention fasting at all in her 2008 "Natural Nutrition for Cats: The Path to Purr-fect Health

" and I don't believe she currently recommends anyone fast their cat. For all the reasons listed above, I certainly don't! :bigwink:

AC

Totally agree and would never fast a cat. Never heard of cat's naturally fasting either unless they are sick.

Hi AC! Nice to see you back

 

[auntie crazy]

...

Hi AC! Nice to see you back

Aw, thanks. *blushes* It's nice to BE back!

AC

 

[just mike]

I was in the middle of reading the ebook "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" by Kymythy Schultze. It said that dogs and cats over the age of one year should fast for one day a week. What?? I've never heard something like this before. Can someone please clarify this for me,

?

What is the science or "non" ancedotal evidence behind her claim?  I've never heard of it but that does not mean there isn't something out there about it.  All I can say is, it's not gonna happen in this household

 

[just mike]

yeah, regardless of whether fasting is healthy - I could not imagine going in the kitchen and eating while I was forcing my cats to fast - with them jumping on the table sniffing my food. I'd feel really guilty.

  Yep!  Like I said, not gonna happen here.  Ever. 

 

[auntie crazy]

I was in the middle of reading the ebook "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" by Kymythy Schultze. It said that dogs and cats over the age of one year should fast for one day a week. What?? I've never heard something like this before. Can someone please clarify this for me,

?

What is the science or "non" ancedotal evidence behind her claim?  I've never heard of it but that does not mean there isn't something out there about it.  All I can say is, it's not gonna happen in this household

As I mentioned earlier, that book is many years old... and Kymythy does NOT advocate for fasting domestic cats today.

Hey, even the experts only know what they know until they know something more... and the data is correct for canines, which, of course, are far more popular than felines and get the vast majority of what study time and money there is to go 'round; especially nearly a decade and a half ago.

AC