Experience with Hill's Prescription y/d?

mrsoleil

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I have 3 cats. The two older cats, age 14 and 12, are hyperthyroid.  First we tried Metronidazole - terrible side affects in both cats.  They just couldn't tolerate it.  The 14yo vomited non-stop, dry heaved.  The 12yo developed extreme itchiness on his neck, pulling out a good bit of his neck hair.  I considered the I-131 treatment but my vet encouraged me to try the Hills y/d. Google is my friend so I spent a lot of time reading online. I read all the bad press on the Hill's Y/D (i.e endocrine blogspot).  One should consider that there could possibly be financial motives towards recommending I-131 treatment such as an affiliation with clinics offering the I-131 treatment. At the same time, vets could profit from encouraging you to buy Hills from them.  Forever the skeptic.

In the past year or so, my 14yo has had two episodes of blood in her urine, treated successfully with an antibiotic.  There's a lot of material if you google about how hyperthyroidism can mask kidney issues.  So, you just have to weigh it out, overall health of the cat, kidneys, temperament, age, finances - try the Hills or go the other routes.  Given the 14yo's age and the possibility of kidney issues, I decided to try the Hills Y/D wet food.  I also gave both cats a little bit of the dry food, about 1 tsp, as a "snack".  They weren't very keen on the wet food initially.  I added about a tablespoon of water to it, mushed it up, and they liked it  better.   Within just two weeks, I noticed the following - 1) their coats improved dramatically 2) the constant begging for food was gone 3) the 14yo had practically stopped vomiting 4) the excessive grooming seemed to subside and 5) their stools were getting hard .  I increased the amount of water that I added to the wet food - turning it into a mush - but they still liked it, possibly even more so.  I decreased the amount of dry that they get (not that it was much to begin with) and when I do give the dry to them "as a snack",  I first mix about 1/4 tsp of the wet with water, making it a "soup", and then I add about a 1/2 tsp of the dry to the water and stir it around.  The dry food is just barely floating in the bowl.  They love it! That's my blessing here - they love the food.  I continue to give my third cat the "crack" of cat food... Fancy Feast.  It was challenging at first to make sure that they didn't play musical bowls.  I'm thinking that even a spec of regular food could "turn the thyroid back on" so I'm very disciplined about this. They seem to like this food so much, that they don't even go for the Fancy Feast bowl any more.  Nonetheless, I make sure they don't.  So it's been about 6 weeks.  Their stools are looking good, LOL.. glistening and soft.  Their coats are beautiful.  I have not had them back to the vet though, yet.  I have not weighed them.  This is not very scientific but I think the 12yo has gained weight, just eyeballing him.  The 14yo - I'm not sure.  I have not had blood work done.  Right now, I'm assuming the diet's working given the improvements listed above.  I plan to give it about 4 months on this diet and then get them back to the vet, do the bloodwork, weigh them,etc.

The 12yo, also has epilepsy and takes phenobarb and keppra.  The diet has not adversely affected that condition.  I used Pill Pockets to pill the phenobarb.  I had to stop that.  Now I pocket the pill with the Hills wet food - it works.  Lastly, I have had to deal with constipation/enemas in the 12yo prior to this diet change as well.  The takeaway from dealing with that episode last year is water, water, and more water... and brushing them.  I even add water to the third cat's food - she has a normal thyroid.

I'll try and get back to update once I get them to the vet.


 
 

jason young guy

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Sylvester is 15 and diagnosed with hyper thyroid. It wasn't until he was panting the Vet saw it and tested him, but I had already drawn the conclusion that was the problem. Constantly hungry, very loud meows, ear infection, spurts of energy (not typical play energy) all were the symptoms. So she put him on the y/d and withing 2 weeks his T4 went from 9.9 to 4.2. His cravings dropped, irritations and symptoms including the panting dropped. I was never so, so happy.

However, the problem now is the canned food is not so much liked. Once opened he will eat it, but it spoils quickly and he want touch it. He does have the dry and eats it and his thirst has increased so put out more bowl of water.

So my question is, I made a big mistake in putting a dab of his old gravy lovers food into the y/d just to get him to eat, and I'm afraid I turned the hyperthyroid back on. He's limping on his leg, panting and excessive meows and spurts of energy. I've read now not to add anything to the diet period, but now that I have will he go back to normal if he stays on the diet and has no other food? I'm worried it won't go back down now. So just curious if anyone has accidentally gave them other food and it came back, and did they continue the diet and it went away again?

Thanks,

Jason and Sylvester
 

mrsoleil

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My cats prefer a newly opened can as well.  They each get a quarter of a can 2x per day.  Whether it's a new can or a can that's been refrigerated, I add water to the food and mix it very thoroughly, mash it so it's no longer jelly-like... more like the consistency of Fancy Feast.    Don't add a lot of water at first - just a couple of milliliters to see what Sylvester likes. Experiment.   And then I add a few pieces of dry food on top. 

I think the smallest amount of normal food will turn the thyroid back on.  That's why this diet MUST be exclusive.  Go back to the y/d diet exclusively and the levels should return.

Both of my cats became constipated with this diet.  Now I give them lactulose per my vets instructions (who called Hills).  That has solved the problem.
 

jason young guy

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Thanks! You and I sound very much alike as I did the same with the food. I mixed in some water and mashed it up and he ate it, slowly, but surley. I later also added some of the dry y/d food and that seemed to help with flavor I guess, but he ate it. I'm glad you mentioned about constipation, because that is something I've noticed with him also. I think it's constipating him because of the low amount of poop (for a lack of term) so I'll ask my Vet about that. I also noticed how highly sensitive his lower back has become, and his ear infection still lingers but I think that's just due to the Florida climate or some sort of allergies. I hope it's not a secondary signal of something other than the thyroid problem. Thanks again for the response, it's great to know others are going through the same issues and I'm not the only one. I just hope he continues to eat the food and continues a healthy nutrition even though it lacks protein like in regular foods.

Sincerely,

Jason
 

colz83

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My cat has successfully been on Hills y/d for a year.  He gained 1/3 of his weight back and seems happy and healthier.

The past new days he is not showing much desire to eat this food anymore.  I used to give him can mush mixed with the crumbles.  He still seems hungry, though, as when I eat he sure seems like he would love some of that food.  I don't think he is sick but I booked an appointment for Friday just in case he doesn't start eating by then.  

The vet recommended to try heat the food a bit in the microwave.  I will try that as well as the water method.
 

blueyedgirl5946

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My Muffin has thyroid issues and was tried on this food. He wouldn't eat it. We tried three different ones and he finally would eat the Purina UR. But now he is dealing with other issues and is at the point where I am having to feed him anything he will eat.
 

colz83

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What would the three different ones be?  As far as I know Hill's y/d only comes in the can and the kibble.  Is Purina UR good for hyperthyroid?  My vet told me this was the only option for food.
 

vball91

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What would the three different ones be?  As far as I know Hill's y/d only comes in the can and the kibble.  Is Purina UR good for hyperthyroid?  My vet told me this was the only option for food.
Please having a look at what this leading endocrine vet has to say about y/d and diet and treatment in general for hyperthyroid cats.

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/search/label/y/d diet
 

ldg

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If you are going to control the hyperthyroid condition with food and not medication (and using y/d is not recommended by the veterinary endocrinologist that discovered the condition of hyperthyroid in cats), there is no other food option.
 

willma

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I beg to differ. I personally don't think there's another pet food company around that has caused more illness and death in cats than Hill's has.
I'm glad you stated this is only your personal opinion, because that is quite an unfounded statement to make. Curious - where did you get your stats? Hills has an enormous international market, and if vets really saw all these pets DYING from a food THEY prescribed, don't you think they might reconsider prescribing it again??? Or would you imply then that the vets just don't care... or that they are ignorant or stupid? Just reading some of the posts within this very thread, it looks to me like y/d has actually helped many cats with thyroid problems, which I'm sure vets have witnessed over and over as well. Don't steer someone away from a food that could be a lifesaver for a medical condition based on your personal bias.  I am pretty sure their vet has a little more experience with the food and the true results than you do.

I also have to add to the general discussion... what is it that makes one think that a medication is a better option than a diet that has proven to have worked and has kept cats HEALTHY in many cases? Personally, and if at all possible, I'd rather manage a condition using nutrition than using medications.  "Let food be thy medicine," as Hippocrates said.

So that said, I would definitely try the food - you never know how it might help. 
 

ldg

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willma, obviously you haven't read the information on y/d provided by one of the feline hyperthyroid experts, Small Animal Veterinary Endocrinologist, Dr. Mark Peterson in any of the many links already provided in this thread. He discovered hyperthyroidism in cats, and is the one that found the cure, radioactive iodine therapy.

The problem with y/d is that it does not prevent the progression of the underlying cause of the disease.

Re: the use of meds, if the cat is tolerant, using medication allows an individual to feed a higher quality diet. This is why I would prefer people - in this instance - to use medication rather than diet. Normally I encourage the opposite.

If you would like to understand why, these posts by Dr. Peterson are a must-read:

http://www.animalendocrine.com/yd/

Minimally, we know that this diet does nothing to prevent the continued growth of the tumors responsible for hyperthyroidism in cats. Hill’s y/d includes at least two of the dietary factors that appear to contribute to the development of hyperthyroidism including overt iodine deficiency and soy isoflavins that act as goitrogens.
http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/04/transitioning-hyperthyroid-cats-from.html

At least for owners who are willing to do the best for their cat, isn’t it most logical to cure the thyroid disease rather than trying to control it with a diet that is too low in protein, too high in carbohydrates... ?
The Best Diet to Feed Hyperthyroid Cats: http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/09/best-diet-to-feed-hyperthyroid-cats.html

****************************

As to your questions about vets and Hill's....

Yes, most vets do care. But most vets have very little understanding of or training in nutrition. And what nutrition knowledge they have is provided by (typically) either Hill's Pet or Royal Canin.

The "stats," as you say, are that Hill's pet has a huge international market - so millions of people are feeding their obligate carnivores a completely species-inappropriate diet. Our cats are not physiologically built to consume a large amount of carbs, and SOY is one of the causes of hyperthyroidism. Hill's offers cat food that is full of carbohydrates and often has soy as an ingredient. The consumption of large amounts of carbs places stress on their organs. People and dogs have 5 different pathways to metabolise carbohydrates. Cats have just one. Their natural diet contains just 2.8% carbohydrates on a dry matter basis. The y/d, for instance, is 28.6% carbohydrates.

Here is thoughts from a vet on diet: A Veterinarian's View

Why Do So Many Veterinarians Caution Against Raw Diets?

Veterinarians actually receive very little training in nutrition. In my 4 years of veterinary school, I had one class, one semester long, on nutrition. Most of this course focused on which prescription diet to recommend for which disease and why. For well pets, I was taught to recommend "Pick one dry food and stick with it." A major pet food manufacturer supplied free pet food to veterinary students, and free prescription diets to the University's veterinary hospital for use with hospitalized animals. Is it any wonder that most vets come out of school recommending that manufacturer's products?
So I can't answer for Sugarcatmom. But that's my take on it.
 
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ldg

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Here is food for thought as re: soy

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/28/avoid-using-soy-on-pets.aspx

http://www.optimumchoices.com/Silent_epidemic.htm (You can skip to the section, "Hidden Poison in Food.")


I also have to add to the general discussion... what is it that makes one think that a medication is a better option than a diet that has proven to have worked and has kept cats HEALTHY in many cases? Personally, and if at all possible, I'd rather manage a condition using nutrition than using medications. "Let food be thy medicine," as Hippocrates said.
The problem is the definition of "food." Hill's is all about the "science" of food. Yes, our astronauts may survive on their scientifically crafted food, but would they choose to eat that same food every meal for the rest of their lives? Science can only take us so far.


This is the list of ingredients in Hill's y/d (before the list of supplements):

Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat, Whole Grain Corn, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, L-Lysine, Chicken Liver Flavor,

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-yd-dry.html

Cats are obligate carnivores. Do you see any meat in that diet?

Hill's is all about marketing, not at all about the health of our pets.
 

denice

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I would like to add one positive about one of the Hill's prescription diets and that's the A/D.  I think the Royal Canin version is called Recovery.  Those are I believe the best choices for a very ill cat especially one on a feeding tube.  Of course they are given on a short term basis but I don't think there is a good equivalent for those.
 

willma

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willma, obviously you haven't read the information on y/d provided by one of the feline hyperthyroid experts, Small Animal Veterinary Endocrinologist, Dr. Mark Peterson in any of the many links already provided in this thread. He discovered hyperthyroidism in cats, and is the one that found the cure, radioactive iodine therapy.

The problem with y/d is that it does not prevent the progression of the underlying cause of the disease.

Re: the use of meds, if the cat is tolerant, using medication allows an individual to feed a higher quality diet. This is why I would prefer people - in this instance - to use medication rather than diet. Normally I encourage the opposite.

If you would like to understand why, these posts by Dr. Peterson are a must-read:

http://www.animalendocrine.com/yd/
http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/04/transitioning-hyperthyroid-cats-from.html
The Best Diet to Feed Hyperthyroid Cats: http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/09/best-diet-to-feed-hyperthyroid-cats.html

****************************

As to your questions about vets and Hill's....

Yes, most vets do care. But most vets have very little understanding of or training in nutrition. And what nutrition knowledge they have is provided by (typically) either Hill's Pet or Royal Canin.

The "stats," as you say, are that Hill's pet has a huge international market - so millions of people are feeding their obligate carnivores a completely species-inappropriate diet. Our cats are not physiologically built to consume a large amount of carbs, and SOY is one of the causes of hyperthyroidism. Hill's offers cat food that is full of carbohydrates and often has soy as an ingredient. The consumption of large amounts of carbs places stress on their organs. People and dogs have 5 different pathways to metabolise carbohydrates. Cats have just one. Their natural diet contains just 2.8% carbohydrates on a dry matter basis. The y/d, for instance, is 28.6% carbohydrates.

Here is thoughts from a vet on diet: A Veterinarian's View
So I can't answer for Sugarcatmom. But that's my take on it.
Here is food for thought as re: soy

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/28/avoid-using-soy-on-pets.aspx

http://www.optimumchoices.com/Silent_epidemic.htm (You can skip to the section, "Hidden Poison in Food.")
The problem is the definition of "food." Hill's is all about the "science" of food. Yes, our astronauts may survive on their scientifically crafted food, but would they choose to eat that same food every meal for the rest of their lives? Science can only take us so far.


This is the list of ingredients in Hill's y/d (before the list of supplements):

Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat, Whole Grain Corn, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, L-Lysine, Chicken Liver Flavor,

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-yd-dry.html

Cats are obligate carnivores. Do you see any meat in that diet?

Hill's is all about marketing, not at all about the health of our pets.
 

ldg

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Of course you shouldn't be ashamed.

But you made a recommendation to try a food assuming that the medical problem had a dietary resolution, without having read the pertinent information already provided regarding the issues surrounding the disease and its treatment options. Information, I mention again, provided by the leading expert on feline hyperthyroidism. HE does not recommend using the diet, as it does not treat the disease, and includes an ingredient that is known to be a cause OF the disease.
 
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mrsoleil

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I would just like to report on Soleil's condition.  First and foremost, after being on the y/d since June, Soleil's thyroid levels are back to within normal range!!  I continue to add  water to the wet food and mash it into a mush, then sprinkle a few dry kibbles on it and he chows down.  His coat is back to its amazing condition (maine coon).  Appetite is normal - and by normal I mean that he is hungry at mealtime only.  He is calmer, less restless, less aggressive with my other cats.  And he has gained a pound.  Betterton, my domestic shorthair, has also gained weight, appetite returned to normal, eyes bright, coat is gorgeous again, etc.  I have not had Betterton's bloodwork done however since going to the vet for Betterton is way too stressful for her.  For Betterton, I'm assuming things are good since the hypothyroid symptoms that she exhibited are now gone.

Neither cats have had any issues with kidneys (knock on wood).

Soleil, however, began acting sedated back in August.  He also had a lot of facial itching and ear twitching.  Once I realized that I was looking at a sedated cat, I decreased his phenobarbitol from 15mg 2x per day, to .75 mg 2x per day.  I also decreased his Keppra from 1.3ml 3x per day to 1.0ml 3x per day.  Soleil is on these meds because he has epilepsy.  The sedated behavior and the facial/ear itching ended.   He has had one seizure - his third of the year.  Prior to 2013, he was seizing 1x per month so to some degree, the epilepsy is resolving on its own.  When I had his bloodwork done, the phenobarb level was within normal range - so reducing the dosage was okay to do.  I think that getting the thyroid under control with the Y/D affected how his body absorbed the phenobarb and that's why reducing the dosage was okay.  I'm no doctor, but that's my theory.

So I'm reading this entire thread and I have to comment on some of the things being said.

We all love our cats. We all have to balance our choices - to do what's best for our cats based on general health and age, ourselves, our finances.  It's also very possible that Dr.Peterson, the " leading expert",  has a financial interest in promoting the radioiodine treatment.  Who knows?  Then again, my vet may have a financial interested in promoting Y/D.  Again, who knows?  The bottom line is I don't think we should criticize each other for selecting one treatment over the other.

In the short run, it looks like the Y/D is doing the job for my cats.  Hopefully, in the long run, that will remain true.  Do I trust that Hill's has done long-term studies on the Y/D?  Absolutely not.  Do I trust that long terms studies have been done on cats treated with drugs or radiiodine therapy?  Absolutely not.  That's the strength of this forum - just regular people sharing information honestly, without any financial motivation, so informed decisions can be made.

I'll step off of my soapbox now
 

ldg

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So I'm reading this entire thread and I have to comment on some of the things being said.

We all love our cats. We all have to balance our choices - to do what's best for our cats based on general health and age, ourselves, our finances.  It's also very possible that Dr.Peterson, the " leading expert",  has a financial interest in promoting the radioiodine treatment.  Who knows?  Then again, my vet may have a financial interested in promoting Y/D.  Again, who knows?  The bottom line is I don't think we should criticize each other for selecting one treatment over the other.

In the short run, it looks like the Y/D is doing the job for my cats.  Hopefully, in the long run, that will remain true.  Do I trust that Hill's has done long-term studies on the Y/D?  Absolutely not.  Do I trust that long terms studies have been done on cats treated with drugs or radiiodine therapy?  Absolutely not.  That's the strength of this forum - just regular people sharing information honestly, without any financial motivation, so informed decisions can be made.

I'll step off of my soapbox now :clap:

:hugs: What matters is that Soleil is stable.

I agree - no one should be criticized for their choices, and there's a lot that factors into decisions. :nod: That said, I think it's best that people make informed choices. The y/d will - or should - stabilize the thyroid numbers. :nod: But it doesn't stop the progression of the disease, and as it is low protein, in older kitties, it may lead to muscle wasting. It's something that should factor into people's decisions. :)

...and I don't think most vets make recommendations based on monetary reasons. I think they do try to do their best for their patients (for the most part).

One of the links I provided actually explains the physiology of they thyroid. The difference between treating with diet and other methods is simply science, not opinion.
 

jason young guy

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I appreciate the comments. I have read all the reports on the food that some don't recommend it and some do. For those who are not for the diet, you have to seriously consider what someone with a hyperthyroid cat at age 16 goes through. You have to understand the heart murmur he has, and the erratic spurts of uncontrollable energy, which could lead to a stroke or heart attack. You have to consider he can't go under surgery and I will NOT put radioactive treatments in his body.

So, it's either manage his T4 and over all health as normal as I can with this food, or do nothing and watch him slowly and miserably die. I choose the food diet. Now, my only concern is the long term health affects, which no Vet or study has been able to do because it's so new.

It's not a healthy diet compared to their normal protein intake, and it's not known the affects of a iodine free diet. Sylvester is having problems with increased thirst and possible kidney disease, but I'm not sure if that's been caused by the food or by age. I've read that when their thyroid problem is under control, it often can reveal other issues once masked, like kidney disease.

So, I created a thread of ongoing updates from people using the y/d on here to report good and bad affects as they continue using the diet. It's the only way we as users can see from each other how it's doing as far as a treatment. Our Vets are just as educated and knowledgeable as we are since it's such a new product. So, the only study we can conclude from is our own with each other.

Sylvester is doing well, but his rear, increased thirst, and pooping problem is not good, so we're just taking it one day at a time and he's doing good other than that.

Also, keeping one of those pug in calming diffusers helped tremendously in keeping Sylvester's erratic spurts of energy under control. They are not normal for a 16 year old cat, and it's not that he's playing, he's reacting from the high T4 levels, and now that they are under control, the diffuser helps keep him calm and normal so he doesn't give himself a stroke. Some say it doesn't work, but for my boy it has and is worth it. Yes, it's expensive, about $40 for the plug in and refills are around $20 and they last about a month. Just a fyi.

My thread is on here under cat health called,     Ongoing support/updates for people with felines on Hills y/d cat food.

Thanks,

Jason and Sylvester.
 

thechunkyone

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Our cat has been on y/d for over 2 years.  Seemed to be going ok .... she maintained her (much thinner than previously) 3kg+ but now has gone down to 2kg.  Sleeps a lot.  

Is y/d worth it for so long?

Should we supplement it with fresh hen?
 
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