Early spay/neuter in canines

[boomerkitty]

I don't know if any studies have been done in felines, but there's a growing body of evidence suggesting that dogs need their hormones for more than just sexual reproduction.
I DO NOT advocate BYB's, commercial breeders or irresponsible pet ownership. In fact I feel that very few companion animals should be allowed to reproduce. I support only responsible breeders (health testing, pedigree research, and spay/neuter all pet quality animals etc).
I also support rescues and shelters for cleaning up the messes that irresponsible humans make.
That said, I certainly would not want to shorten my dogs' lives because they didn't receive the benefit of being allowed to mature. This study also cites adverse effects in human females that have had a hysterectomy before 50.

http://thewholedog.org/wholedognews/?p=464#more-464

 

[Willowy]

No, that's true. I don't support early spay/neuter in dogs (although I recognize that shelters have to do what they have to do). After reading a bunch of stuff, I now think males should be at least 1 year-2 years (depending on size) old before being neutered and females should have at least one heat before being spayed. Of course you have to be careful and very responsible---not just because of the unwanted puppies angle, but also because getting pregnant on her first heat is dangerous for her. But keeping a dog contained is a lot easier than it is with cats, fortunately.

There are also behavioral benefits to allowing a dog to mature before altering. A dog that loses its hormones before sexual maturity will never fully reach social maturity, and will always be somewhat immature in its behavior. Kind of an "eternal puppy" syndrome.

There have been studies done on cats and no ill effects have been observed from early spay/neuter. This is what all earlier pediatric spay/neuter recommendations were based on, until---oops!---they found out that dogs are different from cats! Who knew?

 

[white cat lover]

Given all the "accidental" litters I've fostered because a vet or a person decided the dog should have a heat before being spayed, I am pro early S/N. I am not arguing that there aren't health effects, but IMO most average pet owners are not able to handle an unaltered dog & keep that dog from reproducing. I've seen hundreds of puppies to prove this.

 

[boomerkitty]

It scares me because one of my Pharaoh Hounds was spayed before her first season. I bought her on a show contract and when it was obvious that she wasn't going to turn out I had her spayed. Now, she was about 1 1/2, but PH's are more like wild dogs in that they mature later (can have a first heat as late as 2 1/2) and sometimes only come into season once a year.
I think I would die if I knew I unintentionally shortened her life. She is a bit over 4 now. If this research had come out a few years sooner I would have waited.

 

[boomerkitty]

Originally Posted by white cat lover

Given all the "accidental" litters I've fostered because a vet or a person decided the dog should have a heat before being spayed, I am pro early S/N. I am not arguing that there aren't health effects, but IMO most average pet owners are not able to handle an unaltered dog & keep that dog from reproducing. I've seen hundreds of puppies to prove this.

I agree, the average public cannot handle an intact dog and keep it from reproducing. After thinking about it though, maybe vasectomies and tubals will become more prevalent?

 

[Willowy]

It is unfortunately true that most people can't handle it. Which is sad, considering how easy it is to keep a dog contained. A dog shouldn't be running loose even if they are fixed.

But even in that case they still shouldn't be altered before 6 months. Very few females (almost none) will come into season before that, and males aren't fertile at that age.

And, yeah, tubals and vasectomies might be a good thing. Although pyometra is fairly common in unspayed bitches, so removing the uterus but leaving the ovaries would be the best option.

But if a responsible owner is looking for the right age to spay/neuter, I do think they shoud wait.

think I would die if I knew I unintentionally shortened her life. She is a bit over 4 now.

Probably not. The study was done on Rotts and they have short lifespans anyway. And all kinds of health issues---very prone to cancer. I would think a primitive breed like a Pharoah Hound would be a lot tougher.

 

[boomerkitty]

Over the years I have had two girls with pyometra. The first one (Doberman) somehow had a cystic pyometra. She was only 4 and I had a puppy back contract and co-ownership. She was agility titled and was OFA'd, CERF'd, normal thyroid, and normal cardiac function. It was quite disheartening. Needless to say she was spayed at the ER. The second one was my youngest PH. She had a "split" season when she was a year and a half which is rather odd. The next thing I knew she had pyo and was spayed as well. Bad luck as she had been shown in the puppy classes and did well. Pyometra seems to usually be an old dog thing. I just had an odd duck.
The idea of removing the uterus and leaving the ovaries might be the way to go in the future.

 

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by BoomerKitty

The idea of removing the uterus and leaving the ovaries might be the way to go in the future.

If I ever get another puppy (probably not....yikes!) or an older unspayed female, I'm going to ask my vet if he'll do that. He usually humors my weird requests, and it can't be any harder than a full ovariohysterectomy. But normally it's hard to find a vet that will do unusual things like that.

And if I ever get an unneutered male, I'm definitely finding a vet that will do a vasectomy. I know that's reasonably common so it shouldn't be too hard. Some males get to be jerks if unneutered, but most of them don't develop any behavioral problems. And I like an entire male. They have more of an attitude.

 

[sharky]

When I gasp was thinking about a Large to giant breed male I had this discussion with not just my primary vet but three others too... the concensus was it was VERY much okay to spay a female prior to the first heat ( 3 out 4 agreed) but the males it was 50/50 on neuter prior to 12-18 months

After learning this and having had intact large breed males before I opted for a NONE puppy ... who was female , small and already done

 

[Willowy]

Someone on my dog forum just posted this link and I thought it was good reading:
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longt...uterindogs.pdf

Balanced and informative, though it doesn't address population control.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Willowy

Someone on my dog forum just posted this link and I thought it was good reading:
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longt...uterindogs.pdf

Balanced and informative, though it doesn't address population control.

Funny world we live in... My main vet showed me the male part of that paper

 

[allmycats]

Originally Posted by white cat lover

Given all the "accidental" litters I've fostered because a vet or a person decided the dog should have a heat before being spayed, I am pro early S/N. I am not arguing that there aren't health effects, but IMO most average pet owners are not able to handle an unaltered dog & keep that dog from reproducing. I've seen hundreds of puppies to prove this.

I admire all the work that you do, and I can see this from both sides! There are definitely health effects, but as a volunteer for my breed's rescue, I also recognize the importance of s/n...SOMETIMES early....depending on the situation. I wouldn't do it with my own animals, I guess simply because I have control over what happens to those in my care or those that I allow to leave... it really just depends on the situation and the animal in question.

 

[goldenkitty45]

With cats, I'm comfortable with doing spay/neuter at 3 or 4 months old at the earliest.

With dogs, I'd wait till 6-8 months - you are pretty safe for females not coming into heat before 6 months.

This is how I'd handle it. But I would not want to wait till a female had a first heat or keep a male intact for 1-2 yrs!

 

[whiteforest]

I have an intact male at home now (8 months old next week) and I can tell you that he has a great deal of maturing to do yet, both mentally and physically. I plan to keep him intact until he's about 2 years old. This may change depending on how he develops. I may wait a little longer than 2 years. The only way I'll neuter him prior to 18 months is if he develops any unwanted behavior (i.e. humping, marking, aggression).

It was in my contract with his breeder that he cannot be neutered prior to his growth plates closing, which for a medium sized dog would be somewhere between 10-14 months of age.

 

[3catsn1dog]

I have a mini doxie and he is 1 yr 1 1/2 mths old. He has some basic manners issues like humping other dogs but other than that he is a playful happy hyper puppy. He has a spastic moment where when only one person comes over he pees on them but other than that he is basically good. He does get psychotically happy and hyper when another dog comes over but we think thats mostly because 90% of the time he is home alone with me BF and the cats we dont have company or other dogs over very often. So far the only time he marks is outside with a preferance towards car tires my driver side front tire especially. Aside from him being hyper and peeing on his grammy he is a very very well behaved happy dog. I havent gotten him fixed yet one because its so expensive and the only place around here that offers low cost neutering for dogs is the SPCA and even then with their coupon Im still looking at spending almost 200 for him to get fixed. Supposidly doxies are a high risk dog to put under anesthesia never heard of this before but its what my vet says.
Franklin is the only dog in our area has no chance of getting another dog pregnant because the only female around him is 11 yrs old and spayed. He doesnt have any aggression issues or any other issues I can blame on him being intact. The peeing thing is him getting excited and even after hes fixed he can still do that (according to vet) and the humping other dogs..Well yea that can be from him being intact but we were also told that it may be him asserting his dominance in his territory towards the dogs that are visiting. He doesnt hump dogs when we take him over to their houses only when he is at our house. He doesnt hump anything else just other dogs that come over no people or anything like that.

 

[nekochan]

With cats my vet likes to wait until at least 6 months old to spay or neuter, and my Maine Coon's breeder said to wait until 8 or 9 months old (I forget if it was 8 or 9) because Maine Coons mature more slowly.

With dogs after reading research on the topic, for males I would wait until at least 1 year old whenever possible. For females it is a little more of a gray area... My current dog was not neutered until about 2-3 years old because she was originally bought as a breeding and show dog by her previous owner (from very good lines) but when she was sent to breed with a top stud dog she ended up with pyometra and had to be spayed (that's the only reason I was able to get her, because she was no longer a breeding dog they wanted her to be able to live in a "pet" home...)

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Willowy

If I ever get another puppy (probably not....yikes!) or an older unspayed female, I'm going to ask my vet if he'll do that. He usually humors my weird requests, and it can't be any harder than a full ovariohysterectomy. But normally it's hard to find a vet that will do unusual things like that.

And if I ever get an unneutered male, I'm definitely finding a vet that will do a vasectomy. I know that's reasonably common so it shouldn't be too hard. Some males get to be jerks if unneutered, but most of them don't develop any behavioral problems. And I like an entire male. They have more of an attitude.

yuck. Unless they are trained properly I find intact adult male dogs disgusting. And in my experience, most people don't bother to train. Most people I know with dogs prefer to stand some distance away and scream at their dogs, rather than train them. Heaven help us if they don't neuter them, either. geesh.

 

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by otto

yuck. Unless they are trained properly I find intact adult male dogs disgusting. And in my experience, most people don't bother to train. Most people I know with dogs prefer to stand some distance away and scream at their dogs, rather than train them. Heaven help us if they don't neuter them, either. geesh.

Depends on the dog. Depends on the breed. Some dogs just HAVE to be neutered. Others don't. True that those not willing to train properly should neuter, no question.

 

[crittermom]

but some of us that adopt from shelters, have NO choice.I just adopted a female Terrier mix.She is 4 months old.I have UNTIL April to get her spayed.They only give you 3 months lean way for altering your pet.I have always believed in spaying/neutering before they can reproduce.NOT saying I am right in it, just how I have always thought.
(UNLESS you are going to breed)
Needless to say, when Jazzy goes to the Vet on Monday--we will be talking about getting her spayed.

 

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by crittermom

but some of us that adopt from shelters, have NO choice.

Absolutely, and that's the way it should be. I agree that responsible dog owners might choose to wait a while before altering, or choose not to alter at all. As long as they're responsible and prevent unplanned breedings I have no problem with this. But I honestly do not believe an unaltered animal should be allowed out of a shelter at all. At any age. Even the best shelters have very low spay/neuter compliance rates when they adopt animals out on an alter contract.