Ear Ablation Surgery

[kskatt]

I'm so sorry he's having such a rough time! Do you have a room he could be in by himself? Just long enough for him to get use to his new situation? Then do an introduction, just like a new cat. That's just what pops to mind first.

The ear canal is removed, the ear drum would still be intact, unless they had to remove the ear drum for some reason. My vet says it should sound, to him, like he's wearing mufflers.

Cats do not like to have a weakness, like reduced hearing would be. Perhaps he's just making certain everybody knows he's still able to defend himself.

Anyway, my best guesses. Please keep us updated on how everything goes. You got my curiosity perked!

 

[inkysmom]

The surgeon said he's probably had reduced hearing due to his chronic otitis for some time now but he did have hearing in the left ear. Which was less infected and had smaller tumor than the right. Until this surgery last week. Now he's more jumpy and startles and doesn't respond to his name or sounds so I believe he's lost more hearing. Surgeon said he's probably deaf now.
I can lock him in the bathroom but he hates it and meows and then I can't watch to make sure he's not scratching his ear wound. If I lock him in the bedroom with me my other two cats literally flip out and meow and cry nonstop and one of them throws himself against the doorknob trying to open it. I live in a crowded large apartment building with thin walls so I'm sure my neighbors wouldn't like all the noise. I lock him in the bathroom when I'm not home since he's diabetic and eats a special diet anyway. But he hates being isloated. He literally walked up to my small cat who was his best buddy a week ago while the other cat was curled up sound asleep and started biting and cuffing him. Right in front of me so definitely they're not provoking him. He's even cuffing my 75 pound dog who usually he loves too.

 

[kskatt]

Ouch, that is worse sense his right ear was that compromised to begin with. If you wanted to get specific, when he's awake and alert, maybe looking at something, about 3 feet behind his head clap your hands, loudly. If there's no response at all, try closer. That would be more for curiosity.

If he's deaf, or reduced that much, he's going to be very spooky. Is he hitting them to where he hurts them? Is this something that you would be able to give some time? He may just need to get adjusted to it. Sure wish I could help.

 

[inkysmom]

Thanks, update is things are settling down a bit. He had the horner's syndrome in his right eye but now can blink so I don't have to fight with him for eyedrops anymore and he's off all meds except his regular insulin. The second ear healed beautifully and quickly with no complications and overall he seems happier than he ever has. I've never seem him run around the house like a maniac before and play with toys, even when be was young and feral. He has a favorite pink mouse that he chases nonstop.
He doesn't attack the others as much anymore. The surgeon had a neurologist look at him as well and they did all kinds of tests to make sure he was really deaf and there were no neurological signs to hint that the cancer had gone to his brain but he seemed fine but really deaf. They said he was adjusting to total hearing loss and to give him time and separate him from the other pets while he adjusted and recommended the feliway. I got it and it's plugged in for a couple of weeks now. I also got a little stern with him, if he goes up to a sleeping cat or dog who's minding their own business unprovoked and starts biting and attacking them, I'd tap him and shake my finger in his face and make sure he could see me saying no. If he did it again I'd push him off the bed and onto the floor. Third time I'd pick him up and lock him in the bathroom alone and leave him there for a bit. When he rubs against the other cats or dog and tolerates them being in his space too close I'd pat him and give him lots of praise. The dominant other cat always wanta to be right on me and will climb on and sit on any other pet in the way to be the closest so I'd push him over or on the other side of the bed to show the deaf one that I'd protect him. It all helps since things are more peaceful around here.
Also I don't know if since he's healed and the swelling has gone down he's somehow miraculously gotten some slight hearing back or if I'm just wishing but a few times recently if I've stood behind him and called his name loudly he's jumped and turned around. Or when I walk into the room when he's eating and he has his back to me he'll jump and turn around. Maybe he's adapting better with his other senses I don't know.
But thanks for the support. He's definitely so much happier since he had the tecas so he must've felt so lousy all the time with all that infection and then cancer in his ears. I still can't get over a cat who's close to 15 tearing around the place chasing after a little pink mouse for hours every day and night. Before I'd never seen him move faster than a fast walk and didn't think he even could run since he's a bit chubby.

 

[kskatt]

inkysmom, that is such wonderful news, brought tears to my eyes! It would be awesome if he did regain some hearing, though the other senses become more sensitive and he may even be feeling a vibration from your steps. I wonder if there could be a vibration in the air from your voice? That sounds far fetched, but animals are so very much more sensitive to things than we are. All that matters is that he is enjoying life so much! I bet you have a ginormous  smile on your face as you watch him run and play. Sounds like you have figured out how to keep the kids in hand and create a happy place for everybody!

 

[inkysmom]

Thank you yes I do love to see him so happy and not constantly tearing his ears up and with no raw bleeding wounds and only scars. His fur is growing back on his shaved neck and head too. So he's finally starting to look like a normal cat again.
Internet research said that he could sense muffled sound through his cochlea, like the cochlear implants deaf people get and it would sound muffled like if you had earplugs in. The surgeon said his eardrums might regrow with time. Maybe with healing the swelling has gone down and something is working who knows.
Anyway he seems happy and is less aggressive and more loving again to me and his favorite best buddy cat. He and the more dominant cat always got along before but were never super bonded. Today he got the satisfaction of seeing the dominant cat get in trouble lol. That cat always wants to be right on me closer than any other pet and will literally climb on or sit on the others and push in between to be close to me. Today the two of them were curled up on the bed next to me and I saw the dominant cat just start swatting and cuffing the poor teca cat for no reason that I could see. So just like I did to teca cat if he attacks for no reason I told the other cat no and swatted him once or twice and had to strongly push him off the bed since he was being a bully. I got some head butts and lots of love from teca cat for that lol!

 

[kskatt]

When you say swat I bet it's like I do. It's not hitting, more like a swift push? I don't know what to call it, don't want anyone thinking I hit my critters, and someone might see your words and jump to conclusions. If we abused our kitties, they wouldn't be coming back for more!

It is really aggravating when one of the cats is being a bully. Sometimes I would, almost, like to smack somebody, but it never happens. Just like having children, maybe worse?

 

[inkysmom]

I've never abused any animal or person in my life. A very light tap with a verbal reprimand to get them to stop physically attacking and injuring a person or vulnerable animal is in my mind acceptable to prevent further injury, as is pushing them off the bed or other highly treasured spot, much like time outs for misbehaving children. I work with people for a living and have much education and experience with cognitive behavioral as well as true classical operant behavior conditioning. I'm also a licensed horseback riding instructor and have trained, socialized and owned aggressive dogs and feral or abandoned cats all my life and difficult horses. True behavior training incorporates positive and negative reinforcements as well as punishment and is not all positive reinforcements as a lot of the behaviorists at shelters say and are wrong. Praise and treats are not going to stop a dangerous cat or dog fight.
Behaviorist director at a local shelter recently told me not to adopt my dog because of his high prey drive and he would kill my cats. I watched their so called cat test which was ridiculous and read the previous owner report which said he'd lived with cats since birth and was fine, and knew my cats would put him in his place and took him anyway. They're best buddies and he's at the bottom of the pecking order. Took some punishment from the cats though at first. He's not traumatized he kisses and licks them and snuggles with them on the bed daily.

This formerly feral cat I've had for 12 years now would rake my arms open if I tried to pet him until 2 years ago wheñ he got sick. If he thinks I'm threatening he swats me with the lethal nails and bites and takes no prisoners. But I've socialized him and gained his trust to the point that he sleeps on my head purring every night with his paws wrapped around me and can't get close enough to me, kisses my nose and mouth, head butts me obsessively, and all the vet hospital staff love him, don't believe that he was ever feral cause he's so good for intense surgery procedures and keep threatening to steal him. They've sent him home every time with new sets of healing rocks.
But when he attacks the little cat half his size while the little cat is sleeping with no provocation and is furiously batting his head and biting his neck and the little cat has some type of allergies and raw patches already all over, I can't let that happen no matter if he's adjusting to being deaf or what. If I pull him away he turns on me and that's not acceptable. If he attacks me and his buddy, he gets a firm no and I wave my hand no so he can see it. if he escalates to a further aggression, more no, light tap and pushed off the bed. If he does it again he gets locked in the bathroom to calm down. If people want to think that's abuse they can that's not my responsibility for their misperceptions. But I have 2 graduate degrees, and licenses and much experience to back up my views, as well as all my animals are very well trained, bonded to me and trusting and loving to everyone they meet. Abused animals don't act that way. Mine are all quite opinionated and defiant and talk back to me all the time lol.
So think of it any way you choose to, but I have happy assertive well adjusted animals who are spoiled rotten but also trained to be able to be handled. Between love, money, time and stress I probably take better care of them than many people do their human children, which is sad but if you read the news, true.

 

[kskatt]

You might want to go back and read my response again. I was trying to stop anyone from jumping to the wrong conclusion. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

 

[inkysmom]

No I appreciate your respones and didn't think you were overreacting. I appreciate your being cautious. I responded as I did to give some history and my education and background and experience and to make it blatantly clear that I'm not some inexperienced uneducated fool who just swoops in and manhandle or scares pets to get my way or in some idiotic show of false dominance. Rather that I study and learn and read and research a ton and have much experience already with cats, dogs and horses and would never risk an animal's health or well being if I wasnt absolutely sure I wouldn't harm or traumatize it. BUT in emergency attack situations I will tap or restrain or do whatever is necessary to ensure everyone is safe. In my mind, if someone let's a much larger cat or dog kill or seriously injure a tiny pet or child, that's horrifically wrong and more criminal than hitting the aggressive animal to save the situation and prevent devastating harm.

If my 16 pound cat or 75 pound dog is really attacking my 7 pound cat and won't stop from verbal commands or me pulling them away, at that point I don't care if I temporarily hurt or cause some pain or stress to the much larger aggressive animal. They'll get over it. The tiny cat could die. I will say I've never had to make that decision because I've always stopped any risky issues immediately in the moment.
Any of my dogs ever looked slightly threatening to any of my cats or guests for even a split second, they got a very loud and firm no, bad!!! And were instantly sent to their crate for a long time and not allowed to eat until I said ok if there was any trace of food aggression involved. Never any hitting but it worked like a charm and last dog did stop biting my roommates and guests.

 

[kskatt]

Sorry I took it personally. Simply the way you responded sounded like you were directing your comments at me, when all I tried to do was stop the comments that normally come after a comment like yours. Even making a reference of "disciplining" a cat has created quite an uproar many times. I wanted to save you from that.

 I am 58 and have been rescuing cats, dogs and horses longer than many people have been alive. I have a few ex-ferals myself. I know exactly what it takes to handle fights, preferably read the signs and stop it before it starts.

The safest way to stop fights is to put a large object in between the animals; lid, piece of cardboard, (those are far easier to handle quickly), that type of thing. I keep such objects in every room simply to be prepared. Reaching in to do anything at all to either of the animals in question can get you badly injured.

 

[inkysmom]

I appreciate your help. My guys are now super tame and loving and only fight for who gets the cherished spot of who gets to be closest to be next to my face when I'm sleeping. As in when I turn over they all get offended that my back is now to them and they relocate to get closer to my face again and the brawls start anew lol. Enough already! Sometimes I just banish all the super clingy needy ones to the floor and tell them they need to get used to being able to handle sleeping and existing without being permanently glued to my eyes and mouth and learn to let me breathe and not suffocate me constantly. Then I hug and bond with my dog who's always there but less demanding and let them be jealous. But never hurt or abuse anyone, unless it's emotional abuse to occasionally reward the dog for his patience and tell the cats to deal for a short time. But they're excessively clingy like 24/7 & I can't even move, sleep or breathe! Way too much with 3 of them always competing and wrapping around my face, chest, hair, head, etc. They definitely don't act traumatized in any way! So thanks so much for your concern and help. I know that none of my animals would ever show signs of abuse or neglect and I would happily prove that if needed. If anyone reading has concerns after all this they can easily email me. I don't know how to post pictures but my pets are all gorgeous and healthy looking. My one allergy kitty has some lesions but they're being followed up with by the vet and will be treated once the results come back. I called today and they're still not back.

Any marks my dog has are from him provoking scuffles with other dominant male dogs at the dog park and not backing down or coming back to me when called so me having to go yank him off the other dog in a scuffle. Marks are minor and he's lucky he wasn't seriously hurt for being a bully and jerk.

 

[kskatt]

I live in the boonies and all my "kids" found me. One of my ex-ferals was trapped by neighbors by accident, they were after a skunk. 

Three of the thirteen, live, mostly outside. Bigun' won't come near the house, but I have yet to go out without seeing him in or around the barn. Rocky use to come in once in a while, but I think he can't deal with the crowd. I do have lots of shelves, window seats and cat furniture, but it's still pretty tight. Sunny ex-feral comes in once or twice a day, just long enough to check out the territory. Sunny arrived with several scars, but he has gotten a few here. Those are fights I never see, I think he's made himself the "protector" and keeps others away. Most of the time.

IMG_4020.JPG

• kskatt
• Mar 20, 2017

This is Sunny, can't see much of scars, I just think this shot is cute!

I like finding others who have socialized ferals. Ferals are a challenge, but well worth the time!

 

[inkysmom]

Sunny is adorable. HD looks like my mom's cat Tiger that I inh5after she died. He only lived to 12 when he died of cancer in his stomach, intestines and liver.

Unfortunately Inky my beautiful feral cat only had a couple of months of health and happiness before the cancer in his ears returned and was very aggressive. He started scratching again and my dog started frantically licking his ears again so I took him back in and the cancer was not only back but had also spread to his lymph nodes. No more surgery. He had two chemo treatments which didn't work and the second type of chemotherapy made him quite sick. I had an appointment set up for radiation and a second opinion as I didn't like his oncologist but he got worse and died without being able to go to the appointment. It turns out he was too sick for radiation at that time anyway.
There's a thread about his death and more details in the rainbow bridge section called I lost my sweet kitty today. He was so special and such a huge part of my life that I and my remaining pets are completely devastated.

 

[kskatt]

I'm so sorry! I'll go check out those threads.

 

[Suddi]

Hi!
I have been reading all the threads on this forum and thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences with ear ablation surgery on your cats!
However, it seems all of your cats have been suffering from polyps in the outer ear canal.
My 13 year old, neutered tomboy Suddi is diagnosed with infection in his mid ears, left ear more affected than his right ear.
Nothing can be seen in his outer ears, that both look very nice, with more or less no discharge and absolutely no smell, gooey stuff or blood. His ears do not seem to itch and he is not constantly scratching them either. So how did we find out of this infection? Following were the symptoms that grew stronger and stronger with time:
- he lost his appetite and I constantly had to change food to get him interested in at least sampling something new. He stopped eating his dry food and in the end I could only make him eat little wet food. In the end, he didn't even want his milk or some fresh steamed fish. First I thought there was something wrong with his teeth, but after check up at the vets, his gums looked ok.
- he started gulping a lot. It really looked like he was feeling sick (swallowing over and over) but in hindsight I understand he just had problems to swallow.
- his eyes started having more gooey and yellow stuff to be removed and the lid tissue would be more pinkish in color
- he would occasionally fold his ears and sometimes scratch inside, but there was never any bleading or any visual damage/defects
- he started skidding around, making 2-3 steps, stopping to lick a leg, then shaking them off, then skidding another few 2-3 steps. Like something was itching his legs
- he absolutely started to loose his hearing. Before the problems started, I could never open the fridge without him coming running. He has also always been quite jumpy, and easily scared. Now I could enter the house and get up next to him, sleeping, without even opening an eye.
- he started snoring while sleeping, and breathing more heavily
- finally he lost his voice. He has always been very vocal, but with time, his meowing got a bit coarse and in the end it disappeared completely. He opened his mouth and exhaled, but there was no sound.
In December last year a CT scan confirmed that there was really an ear infection, something that external check ups at the vets could not identify. In fact, the vet even said he had very nicely looking external ears. The infection had probably been there for a while as his ear bones had started to become affected as well.
So we decided to perforate both ear drums to suck out the liquid, rinse the mid ear section and make an analysis of the fluid. He was also treated with antibiotics for 6 weeks.
From the first day, I could see a huge improvement in his behavior, the gulping completely disappeared, the vocals came back after a few days and in those six weeks his appetite was completely restored and he gained 6 kgs (12 pounds)!! We were so happy!!
However, during late spring/summer, I have seen some of the above symptoms returning, not as bad as just before the surgery, but for sure I am much more observant this time around and I do not want him to get as bad again before I act.
I contacted the vet and we did another CT 2 weeks ago and sure enough, there was a lot of liquid especially in the left mid ear.
The vet said that we can not make the same procedure again as last year. I'm not sure why, but I believe it had to do with the long treatment of antibiotics. Instead she recommended surgery. She did notify me of all the risks:
- casualty during the surgery itself due to loss of blood
- chronical defect of balancing organs, that might be so severe the animal can not live with it
- damaging of facial nerves resulting in "hanging eyelids"
- complete death
- developing of lumps and polyps
- not completely being able to cure the cat properly with the risk of the problem returning again
It seems like ablation was not surely needed, but COULD be a solution considered by the surgeon, but she explained that the ear would be entered "from below". I got the feeling this was more from inside, but looking at the pictures of your cat, they have all been made surgery on from the outside. Would your vets also describe that as entering the ears from below?
My vet's recommendation was still to go through with the surgery, at least on Suddi's left ear, as most likely he was in quite much pain even though not showing it too much, as cats are good in disguising their pain. He probably also is more or less death on his left ear already due to the amount of liquid in there.
However, reading the stories about your cats, they seem to have been in so much worse shape before the surgery than my Suddi. Also, last year he was through a very serious surgery (we removed one of his adrinal glands as the vet found a tumor on it so it produced too much aldosterone and created a potassium deficiency - another long story...) and my cat is NOT coping well being in hospital care. In fact, the morning after the gland surgery last year, they called me from the hospital and asked me if I could come and pick him up as he was so stressed and wouldn't let any of the nurses come close and they felt they couldn't give him the care he needed to heal properly. He was supposed to stay in hospital for five days, but we did all the post-surgery treatment at home instead. I can't imagine how he would react after a serious head/ear surgery, in pain, with bad hearing and maybe a cone on his head. After gland surgery, we used a little jump suit body that prevented him from licking his tummy. He was so happy (and cute) in it!!
To me, the surgery and the recovery you describe seems like such a big intervention for "just having liquid" in his ears.
Sorry for this super long post. I would just really appreciate your comments, thoughts and thinking around this. Am I doing the right thing, putting him through yet another serious surgery?? Or could there be other solutions??
Thank you soooo much!!
Eva

Sorry for some spelling mistakes or strange choice of wording. Suddi and I are Swedish citizens...

 

[stella96]

Hi Eva and Suddi, I'm sorry that I don't have lots of advice, but I wanted to give you both good wishes.

If it's not clear why the vet can't take out the liquid again like before, can you maybe ask that they explain to you?

 

[inkysmom]

I will say that my cat Inky was a completely different cat after his second ear ablation surgery. He was finally free of pain alter years of chronic ear infections, healed very quickly with no complications and was happy and even started playing for the first time that I can remember seeing. He did get a bit nervous and aggressive with the other pets from being suddenly deaf as it was his second ear ablation surgery but he coped well with that too after a few weeks. I had thought he was happy before since he was affectionate and loving, but after seeing him energetic and playing like a kitten and joyful at 15, I'm so glad I did the surgery. He was on the hospital for one or two nights. But he didn't mind the hospital and was loving to everyone and had been there so much he wasn't stressed out by it.
Unfortunately he has since died from an aggressive cancer he had that returned and metastasized very fast but I did absolutely everything I could for him and he had many medical problems. I can honestly say I devoted my life to keeping him comfortable even to advocating with the vets to the point of being a nuisance, and am even more glad that in the midst of all his health issues he was able to get a respite to feel well enough to play and be a happy normal cat. After going through two of them, I woukd do it again if recommended after seeing how much better the cat feels afterwards. They really do hide their pain and are not as happy as we want to think they are. You could always get a second vet opinion. But they recommend it because they feel it's best.

 

[MBC85]

Hi. My girl Saffie had to have TECA done on her left ear after they found a rapidly progressing tumor there. She'd been oozing from her ear for months and different vets kept assuring me that antibiotics would clear it up (which of course it didn't.) I was lucky enough to find a competent vet who diagnosed it in time, as it turned out to be cancerous, and 2 months post surgery she's doing really well.

I'm wondering though, have any of y'all noticed a change in the shape of of your kitty's head after the surgery?