Does this persian look purebred?

[anthea]

There are no papers but she supposedly is from a Persian breeder, there are genuine concerns for her reselling so there is no fishy business, however the lack of papers is causing my OCD to act up. I don't want to spend a large sum on a cat that is half domestic breed. I need your expertise please

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• anthea
• Oct 17, 2016

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• anthea
• Oct 17, 2016

I notice the small distant ears and flattish face as well as tear staining. Again I do not want to come across as elitist, I just want to know if I'm getting an actual Persian because I will be spending an amount usually associated with pedigrees

 

[trendygyfts]

actually, i'm interested in finding out how to id pure breed persians. hopefully someone experience can share.

 

[di and bob]

I hope some experts come on to advise you , she sure looks Persian to me. Without papers though there is no way to know her breed without expensive DNA testing, although that is an option.My sister had it done on an internet site for her dog, and I can't see her doing it if it was WAY out of sight, you might chck in to it.  Just remember though even DNA can pick up other breeds from MANY generations back. I myself wouldn't pay that kind of money without the papers to prove her breed, you can't ever paper any of her kittens either. The litters that can't be papered for whatever reason should be sold as pet grade, and thus for less money. She is beautiful though, I can see why you are smitten, I would just love her for what she is, her unique self! 

 

[Kat0121]

I notice the small distant ears and flattish face as well as tear staining. Again I do not want to come across as elitist, I just want to know if I'm getting an actual Persian because I will be spending an amount usually associated with pedigrees

She appears to have Persian in her. Whether she is purebred or not I don't know. Do you know anything about her background? What her parents look like? Without papers, she is considered a domestic longhaired. I have two of them myself. Mine came from the Humane Society after they were rescued with about 20 family members from an abandoned house. Likely the work of a backyard breeder. I suspect that your cat is the result of a BYB also. I could be wrong but the lack of papers and the lack of information regarding the breeder is very suspicious. There is no way in hell I'd pay a large amount of money for a cat that has no papers and no information has been provided about the linage or the breeder. This sets off MANY red flags for me.

She is lovely for sure. Those blue eyes are gorgeous. Do you mind if I ask how much they are charging for her?

These are my girls. 

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• Kat0121
• Oct 19, 2015

Lilith

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• Kat0121
• Aug 10, 2015

Sophie

 

[anthea]

She appears to have Persian in her. Whether she is purebred or not I don't know. Do you know anything about her background? What her parents look like? Without papers, she is considered a domestic longhaired. I have two of them myself. Mine came from the Humane Society after they were rescued with about 20 family members from an abandoned house. Likely the work of a backyard breeder. I suspect that your cat is the result of a BYB also. I could be wrong but the lack of papers and the lack of information regarding the breeder is very suspicious. There is no way in hell I'd pay a large amount of money for a cat that has no papers and no information has been provided about the linage or the breeder. This sets off MANY red flags for me.

She is lovely for sure. Those blue eyes are gorgeous. Do you mind if I ask how much they are charging for her?

These are my girls. 

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• Kat0121
• Oct 19, 2015

Lilith

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• Kat0121
• Aug 10, 2015

Sophie

Close to 600

She was bought initially for 600 pounds.

Ah I'm at a loss. I'm considering getting the genetic test done but that would be after I pay that large sum. I have been due a second kitten for over a month now but the lady I was supposed to buy from kept postponing, so this white kitten is one of two that I I'm fond of in the surrounding area. A part of me is saying to get it for her cuteness alone, but I feel like sellers know that white blue eyed kittens are easy bait to pull in large sums even if they are not pure...

 

[anthea]

I was just told she was intended to be for pet and not show according to the actual owner, who supposedly is a Persian breeder. she does look familiar to other persian kittens being sold for the same price I guess...

 

[Kat0121]

Close to 600

She was bought initially for 600 pounds.

Ah I'm at a loss. I'm considering getting the genetic test done but that would be after I pay that large sum. I have been due a second kitten for over a month now but the lady I was supposed to buy from kept postponing, so this white kitten is one of two that I I'm fond of in the surrounding area. A part of me is saying to get it for her cuteness alone, but I feel like sellers know that white blue eyed kittens are easy bait to pull in large sums even if they are not pure...

Only you can decide if that's a good deal or not. That's a lot of money for a cat whose breeder and parents are unknown. I wouldn't pay it but that is just me. 

There are tests that can be done. This link can give you some more information. https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/cat/ancestry/faq.php#12

Do you have your heart set on a Persian? If so, what you can do is check with reputable breeders and see if they have any pet quality kittens for sale. I bet that if they do, you'll be paying around the same amount of money and you will know for sure where the kitten came from. I am assuming that you are in the UK. This can help you find a reputable breeder. For that kind of money, you deserve to know EXACTLY what you are getting. You will more than likely also be able to meet the parents of the kitten. http://www.gccfcats.org/About-GCCF/Breeder-Scheme/Breeders

 

[anthea]

Only you can decide if that's a good deal or not. That's a lot of money for a cat whose breeder and parents are unknown. I wouldn't pay it but that is just me. 

There are tests that can be done. This link can give you some more information. https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/cat/ancestry/faq.php#12

Do you have your heart set on a Persian? If so, what you can do is check with reputable breeders and see if they have any pet quality kittens for sale. I bet that if they do, you'll be paying around the same amount of money and you will know for sure where the kitten came from. I am assuming that you are in the UK. This can help you find a reputable breeder. For that kind of money, you deserve to know EXACTLY what you are getting. You will more than likely also be able to meet the parents of the kitten. http://www.gccfcats.org/About-GCCF/Breeder-Scheme/Breeders

Thanks for the links! Very useful breeder search engine there. I have been in contact with one other breeder who has papers, while the colour is attractive, I am still leaning on the cat in the opening post because of the face - I just think it's flat enough to look distinct yet not too strong and thus reaches a sweet balance. It doesn't help that I'm a impulse buyer and I have gotten impatient due to previous plans to purchase going to ruin. I may just have to bite the bullet and quell my purist tendencies

 

[anthea]

Only you can decide if that's a good deal or not. That's a lot of money for a cat whose breeder and parents are unknown. I wouldn't pay it but that is just me. 

There are tests that can be done. This link can give you some more information. 

Do you have your heart set on a Persian? If so, what you can do is check with reputable breeders and see if they have any pet quality kittens for sale. I bet that if they do, you'll be paying around the same amount of money and you will know for sure where the kitten came from. I am assuming that you are in the UK. This can help you find a reputable breeder. For that kind of money, you deserve to know EXACTLY what you are getting. You will more than likely also be able to meet the parents of the kitten. 

Thanks for the links, very useful search engine there

I have been in touch with another breeder however I am still leaning towards the cat in opening post because facially I find it more attractivene. It is flat enough to look distinct yet isn't too strong so reaches a sweet balance. Me being an impulse buyer doesn't help either, I may just have to bite the bullet on this one.

 

[Kat0121]

Thanks for the links, very useful search engine there

I have been in touch with another breeder however I am still leaning towards the cat in opening post because facially I find it more attractivene. It is flat enough to look distinct yet isn't too strong so reaches a sweet balance. Me being an impulse buyer doesn't help either, I may just have to bite the bullet on this one.

Another thing you could consider is a breed specific rescue. They do have some Persian rescues in the UK.

http://www.chapelhouse-persians.co.uk/

http://www.london-persian-rescue.co.uk/

http://www.stfrancisrescue.co.uk/

http://rushdenpersianrescue.co.uk/

http://www.persianrescue.co.uk/

These are just some of them- there are more out there. I'm in the US- in Florida- so I have NO idea about any of these or where they are located. 

Has the kitten you are considering been checked over by a vet? 

 

[StefanZ]

I was just told she was intended to be for pet and not show according to the actual owner, who supposedly is a Persian breeder. she does look familiar to other persian kittens being sold for the same price I guess...

There are several different answers.

1.   If you just want "a persian", so sure, she is apparently a persian, and nobody can deny it.  Even if there were a drop or two of other blood...  But if you want to participate in Show or any serious breeding, so its a big NO - without papers you wont be admittend anywhere.  In the Household pet class, but not into the purebreed class...

2. Testing - yeah, there is testing, but it wont show you nothing much. It will show she has definitely persian ancestry - but this you know.   I dont think these tests can see if there is 100 pureness, though.  Unless the partial ancestor comes with some very especial stamina, say its a korat...  If it is a domestic longhaired moggie, this will be hardly discovered.

3.  At least in Sweden its common kittens are sold as Pet - ie family members.  In part because the breeder can never quarantee a kitten will be good enough to win any show titles.   He will be admitted to the show, being purebred, healthy and with papers, but its not sure he will win anything...  So they sell them as pet - BUT are just happy if they ARE shown in Shows, and used in serious breeding.

Perhaps it may be so in other countries as well.

Unless sold at decisively lower price than the usual - then we KNOW its sold as pet quality.   Which doesnt need mean much - it has perhaps color not really according to the standard or something alike.

 

[anthea]

Y

Another thing you could consider is a breed specific rescue. They do have some Persian rescues in the UK.

http://www.chapelhouse-persians.co.uk/

http://www.london-persian-rescue.co.uk/

http://www.stfrancisrescue.co.uk/

http://rushdenpersianrescue.co.uk/

http://www.persianrescue.co.uk/

These are just some of them- there are more out there. I'm in the US- in Florida- so I have NO idea about any of these or where they are located. 

Has the kitten you are considering been checked over by a vet? 

Yes she has had all vaccinations so that helps somewhat lol

 

[anthea]

There are several different answers.

1.   If you just want "a persian", so sure, she is apparently a persian, and nobody can deny it.  Even if there were a drop or two of other blood...  But if you want to participate in Show or any serious breeding, so its a big NO - without papers you wont be admittend anywhere.  In the Household pet class, but not into the purebreed class...

2. Testing - yeah, there is testing, but it wont show you nothing much. It will show she has definitely persian ancestry - but this you know.   I dont think these tests can see if there is 100 pureness, though.  Unless the partial ancestor comes with some very especial stamina, say its a korat...  If it is a domestic longhaired moggie, this will be hardly discovered.

3.  At least in Sweden its common kittens are sold as Pet - ie family members.  In part because the breeder can never quarantee a kitten will be good enough to win any show titles.   He will be admitted to the show, being purebred, healthy and with papers, but its not sure he will win anything...  So they sell them as pet - BUT are just happy if they ARE shown in Shows, and used in serious breeding.
Perhaps it may be so in other countries as well.
Unless sold at decisively lower price than the usual - then we KNOW its sold as pet quality.   Which doesnt need mean much - it has perhaps color not really according to the standard or something alike.

This is basically what it boils down to. I'm not a show participant or breeder so I shouldn't be too worried. But at the same time I want to get my money's worth because even pet cats around this price range arrive with the proper documents. hmmm


I guess at this point it's more about the novelty factor that a pedigree pet has, and the potential of the cat to be from a cheaper variety hence overpriced

 

[Kat0121]

This is basically what it boils down to. I'm not a show participant or breeder so I shouldn't be too worried. But at the same time I want to get my money's worth because even pet cats around this price range arrive with the proper documents. hmmm

That is exactly correct. For that kind of money, you absolutely deserve to know what you are getting. Personally,  I'd advise you to walk away from this one and keep looking. Of course, I also advise you to follow your instincts and choose the cat that truly captures your heart. This is what is most important- that and the health of the cat of course. The right one is out there waiting for you. I hope you find him/her soon. 

 

[posiepurrs]

I am a retired breeder of Persians. I always advise shopping with your head, not your heart first! This is a business transaction, even though the kitten becomes a family member. While pet prices vary widely with geography, for that amount you should be getting documentation of parents being registered, registration for your kitten and a copy of the PKD DNA test.

 

[posiepurrs]

I just re read my previous answer. I did not mean to come off sounding so callous. I just think that it is best to take ll considerations into account before spending that amount of money. Blue eyed white cats can be deaf. How old is the kitten - old enough that the eyes will stay blue? Why is the kitten being sold by someone other than the breeder? Is the sale sanctioned by the breeder ? Some breeders have a clause in the contract that prohibit the resale of their cats for the cats protection. The kitten does indeed look Persian. Only you can decide if you want to risk the money. I know all kittens tug at your heart (just as they do mine) but proceed cautiously.

 

[anthea]

I just re read my previous answer. I did not mean to come off sounding so callous. I just think that it is best to take ll considerations into account before spending that amount of money. Blue eyed white cats can be deaf. How old is the kitten - old enough that the eyes will stay blue? Why is the kitten being sold by someone other than the breeder? Is the sale sanctioned by the breeder ? Some breeders have a clause in the contract that prohibit the resale of their cats for the cats protection. The kitten does indeed look Persian. Only you can decide if you want to risk the money. I know all kittens tug at your heart (just as they do mine) but proceed cautiously.

Don't feel bad for being direct, I love direct honest answers especially from specialists. Anyway, I did indeed buy the kitten lol. She is quite large, nearing 5 months so I did pay "kitten price" for a cat that is halfway to the adult stage...although when I bathed her she was slim so it may just be her fur that is voluminous. As for why she is being resold, the mother of the lady I bought her from is allergic to the cats fur, and the lady herself is only a teenager who just splurged cash on the kitten without asking for papers. Whilst it is common knowledge that breeders should supply papers, I have seen cases where breeders gave the option to supply papers at a added price or flat out did not have papers due to being backyard breeders.
Side note: I'm not even that keen on white blue eyed cats anymore, I do think amber eyes are more enticing, however I always pictured a classic white blue eyed fluffy Persian in my collection.

Honestly, if I had pre planned and if I wasn't dragged along by another breeder, then I would have took time to find a documented kitten- however another lady did drag me along for a few months whilst forgetting the fact that I paid a deposit a few times - she is even taking too long to give my refund, I cannot believe some of these breeders are trusted when they are so unprofessional. That on top of me starting college and my busy daily commutes has caused me to rush. I'm not home too often so I wouldn't be able to witness all the charms of kittenhood regardless, I guess I should have made the decision to buy a second Persian during the summer holiday as opposed to my busy period.

I did add some pics. Funnily enough my smaller colourpoint Persian is bossing the big white kitten around, glad it is not the other way round!

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• anthea
• Oct 18, 2016

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• anthea
• Oct 18, 2016